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Atomic-X's abilities

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Greenshifter

Greenshifter

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As to not derail the CTB thread, there are 3 options for Atomic-X's abilities:

1) All abilities that he has shown:

2) All abilities that he has shown + all of Atomix's abilities: DemonicDude, Badrimoine2019, Doorinmyhouse

3) All abilities that he has shown, possibly all of Alien X's abilities + Atomix's abilities:

4) All abilities that he has shown + all of Alien X's abilities + Atomix's abilities:

Who agrees with what?
 
I agree only with the First Option also you should add an other Option like All abilities that he has shown +all Atomix's abilities.
 
If we purely go with Bellicus and Serena making the difference then I suppose so, although the only abilities that Atomix has that Atomic-X did not display are light manipulation (which he arguably did display) and forcefield creation and both of which are an application of nuclear energy manipulation.
 
also agree with 2. Alien X is stated to control the very nature of space and time + has shown to create space-time out of nothingness, and rewind time, wheras Atomic X has never shown any time manipulation and has been affected by time powers.
 
Version 2 seems reasonable, but we preferably need some proof first.
 
@Ant proof of him having the Atomix's remaining powers or proof that he doesn't have Alien X's powers. If it's the former then aside from common sense I don't have proof, if it's the latter then the only real thing I have is him not using time powers against Maltruant and most likely not using reality warping against the time bomb.
 
I vehemently disagree with not giving a fusion the abilities of what an individual who makes up the fusion itself possesses. The only remote thing that implies Atomic-X not having the same abilities as Alien X is Ben not using like 2 of them, which can be for much simplier reasons other than Atomic-X not having them.

1.) Ben didnt think of using them

2.) The abilities wouldn't work

3.) CIS. Remember, this is the same Ben whos smart enough to design 2 whole omnitrixes and give them the function of using aliens together on top of that. A few instances of him not using abilities can easily fall under the standards of what CIS is.

This is the equivelent to arguing Gogeta, Vegito, Gotenks or other Dragon Ball fusions shouldnt have all the abilities of Goku, Vegeta, Goten, or Trunks because the fusions haven't demonstrated all of the techniques the individual characters have used seperately. There is absolutely no reason to assume Atomic X has different abilities than Alien X all based on little circumstance.
 
Yeah I actually agree with Kukui now about the abilities thing, I think Atomic-X does have the same abilities just to a weaker degree than Alien X
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
I vehemently disagree with not giving a fusion the abilities of what an individual who makes up the fusion itself possesses. The only remote thing that implies Atomic-X not having the same abilities as Alien X is Ben not using like 2 of them, which can be for much simplier reasons other than Atomic-X not having them.

1.) Ben didnt think of using them

2.) The abilities wouldn't work

3.) CIS. Remember, this is the same Ben whos smart enough to design 2 whole omnitrixes and give them the function of using aliens together on top of that. A few instances of him not using abilities can easily fall under the standards of what CIS is.

This is the equivelent to arguing Gogeta, Vegito, Gotenks or other Dragon Ball fusions shouldnt have all the abilities of Goku, Vegeta, Goten, or Trunks because the fusions haven't demonstrated all of the techniques the individual characters have used seperately. There is absolutely no reason to assume Atomic X has different abilities than Alien X all based on little circumstance.
Click to expand...
And you have no proof or evidence about Atomic x having the same abilityes like Alien x all what saied now is just Head cannon nothing more:

> Ben didnt think of using them

1-it's possible, but this mean that atomic x dosn't scale weaker than the CTB since ben didn't even think to use the EE against the CTB.

> The abilities wouldn't work

2-actually that impossible if Atomic x new that his EE Ability wouldn't work on CTB than he wouldn't even try to punch the CTB and expecting it to work anyway which means that :

1-if we assume that Atomic x has EE (which is bullshit) than he didn't think of using his EE ability so he just decided to punch the CTB And it makes sence since Ben dosn't even know that Alien x has EE.

2-even if Atomic x has all Alien x abilityes maybe it's because Atomic x is way weaker than Alien x so the EE ability wouldn't work

3-since it's a fusion than Atomic x would probably have some of Alien x abilityes and Atomix abilityes but not all of them (like 50% of Atomix abilities and 50% of Alien x abilities) .

4-maybe it's because of his weaknesses I mean since it's a fusion than Atomic x wouldn't have only Alien x weaknesses but Also Atomix weaknesses which could maybe affect his abilityes IDK.

5-maybe Atomic x was caught off guard so he didn't really know how strong the CTB for example when goku got one shot by a laser when goku let his guard down.
 
When Ben10k designed the Bi-Omnitrix he did it because it's much suitable in certain conditions even Azmuth thinks it's a silly idea ,Fusion is only helpful in some conditions as they are not more powerful than both aliens combined together, That's why if Ben 10K wants to use Original Alien X with full abilites he can via One Gauntlet .Anything Atomic x has shown is highly under even a planet level. Thus not being able to defeat Maltruant.
 
The problem is that we do not know for certain if Atomic-X has all of the abilities of his components. Different fictions can work in different ways in this regard, and it seems strange that he wouldn't use so versatile abilities as those of Alien X if he could.

Perhaps we could create 3 different tabbers for Atomic-X: "Known Powers", "Atomix Powers", and "Alien X Powers", and write "Possibly" in the beginning of the last two sections?
 
@Ant so basically option 3 but more organized then? Do you agree that him not using certain powers against threats can not be used as evidence against Alien X's AP, powers and resistances due to the nature of possibly then?
 
I am still very uncertain about the Alien X abilities, given that he could have had a huge arsenal to pick and choose from in that case, and never used it anyway.
 
Agreed, I will admit he did use hax (teleportation and presumably miniature black holes) against Vilgax but all in all he had very little screentime and we have practically 0 author statements regarding him so that's why we have to guess mainly.
 
Yes. It think that listing all of his demonstrated abilities, and then writing "Likely other unknown abilities of Atomix and Alien X" at the end might be the best solution.
 
I 100% agree with @Ant, Atomic x would probably have some of Alien x and Atomix abilityes like 50% of Alien x abilityes and 50% of Atomix abilityes
 
Doing this without Kukui saying yes probably won't do any good since he'll just keep disagreeing. Also DD and Door should preferably respond again.
 
I also agree with Antvasima, just because 1 fiction treats fusions one way doesnt mean every series treats them the same way. It's best to not assume a character has a certain ability if they have never been shown or stated to have them + never used them on 2 situations were they would have been incredibly useful. it's best to just write that he likely has abilities from his components, but with clear uncertainty.
 
>And you have no proof or evidence about Atomic x having the same abilityes like Alien x all what saied now is just Head cannon nothing more:

No, the default assumption =/= headcanon. What IS headcanon is making leaps in logic to assume something that has no basis behind it in the first place. We can assume Atomic X has Alien X's abilities because Alien X is being used to make up what Atomic X itself is in the first place. Meanwhile, you have nothing to suggest their abilities differ from each other besides very little circumstance of, like, 2 abilities not being used.

>it's possible, but this mean that atomic x dosn't scale weaker than the CTB since ben didn't even think to use the EE against the CTB.

I knew you'd bring this up, and that's a no. Ben not thinking of using an ability or 2 in one instance is not the same thing as him directly a threat where EE specifically would be the only thing that saves him. He's pitted against existence erasure, has only one ability that can possibly stop it, and he doesn't use it? That's incredibly stupid. And the basis of his EE being superior to the bombs is speculative to begin with.

>if we assume that Atomic x has EE (which is bullshit) than he didn't think of using his EE ability so he just decided to punch the CTB And it makes sence since Ben dosn't even know that Alien x has EE.

If Ben doesn't know Alien X in general has EE, then why in the hell are you even arguing for Alien X to be 2-B with it? It would be completely non-combat applicable if that is the case.

>Fusion is only helpful in some conditions as they are not more powerful than both aliens combined together

And what confirms this? Again, your taking the standard of how faulty made fusions were made in Ben 10 in the past and applying them to every alien fusion in the entire franchise, which is ridiculously flawed.

The Biomnitrix is specifically designed to make proper fusions, there's nothing confirming the fusion aliens would be weaker and nothing implies they'd be weaker either.

>I also agree with Antvasima, just because 1 fiction treats fusions one way doesnt mean every series treats them the same way.

Of course fusions do not have an absolute standard across fiction. They can definitely be treated differently. However, the default assumption that takes the fewest leaps in logic should be that they are assumed to have the abilities because the fusion is made up from the individual products.

If for some reason the fusion doesn't have all of their abilities, there needs to be an actual confirmation that proves it. Without a basis to it, your only creating bigger speculation than there needs to be.


That said, im tired of repeating my points over and over so if making a different tab with Alien X's powers is agreed on, i'll just go with it.
 
The reason Alien X is 2-B with EE is like Dimentio, it scales to AP and durability of Dimentio for some reason. Alien X has an even better case than Dimention since EE ability scales to RW ability scales to AP.

I don't think it will be a tabber but it comes down to the same thing, people just need to look on their respective profiles rather than us mentioning it.

Also isn't there a note on the time bomb's page that Ben 10000 didn't know what he was facing so he could have assumed it was a regular bomb, I don't think Paradox explains it to him either.
 
Why should we assume Atomic x has all alien x abilites with it's half + half when Bi omnitrix combines 1/2 Dna of both and Atomic x has shown to be weaker not being able to handle a time manipulator like Maltruant. Yes Bi Omnitrix is deinged to make proper fusions but those fusion are only 1/2 Dna for instance Big Chuck has shown absoutley nothing to be Planetery level and his fusion would require an alien as big as way big to be as height as way big. He Proper doesnt equal Stronger. This has nothing to do with OS fusions, Then why is one gauntlet used for regular alien transformations if fusions were stronger and has all the abilites nothing implies fusions are stronger. This is why Bi-Omnitrix was created if anything. No Existence Erasure for Atomic X
 
>No, the default assumption =/= headcanon. What IS headcanon is making leaps in logic to assume something that has no basis behind it in the first place. We can assume Atomic X has Alien X's abilities because Alien X is being used to make up what Atomic X itself is in the first place. Meanwhile, you have nothing to suggest their abilities differ from each other besides very little circumstance of, like, 2 abilities not being used.

-bruh I do agree that Atomic x does have some of Alien x abilityes but not all of theme like he does have 50% of Alien x abilityes and 50 % of Atomix abilityes since its a combination of 1/2 DNA Also It would be with a much lower scale than Alien x anyway
 
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Atomic-X is confirmed to be weaker than Alien X via author statement, I still agree with Ant on mentioning Likely other unknown abilities of Atomix and Alien X, stuff like size manipulation should still be possible that he has it, but the high tier stuff like EE and universal space-time manipulation is no-no. All credits to Firestorm's blog, you and Duncan are da MVP's. (Also I just noticed this author statement scales Alien X above the CTB without us having to do it lol 😂😂😂)
 
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