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Some of Goku's Victories

Cropfist

Cropfist

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I've been meaning to do this since earlier today.

Lilithmo - 2 of the votes had no reasoning behind them and some of the others ignored the second round with speed equalized. The round with unequalized speed would fall under our speedstomp rule and with equalization Lilithmon should have still won with hax.

Amaterasu - Amaterasu's only advantage was speed and her time stop was banned. The massive power gap means this should be removed for being a stomp.

Thor - Stomp in general. Thor is badly outclassed in AP, durability and speed.

Now for ones that should have been a victory for the opponent:

Yugi Muto - Since speed was equalized, Yugi had a significant hax advantage in the form of durability negation, mind control, reality warping and soul manipulation that Goku has no counter for.

Viral - Viral had a large speed advantage, durability that would be high enough to prevent one-shotting and could just destroy the galaxy they're fighting via Enkidu's size in to suffocate him.
 
Agreed, especially with the Lilithmon one, I have no idea why it was accepted when it was such a stomp.
 
What is Yugi's hax, with only his god cards btw?

I agree with everything else
 
I've just removed Thor, Lilithmon, Amaterasu, and Viral.
 
Viral can't even hit Goku because of size. (Try to kill a microbe with your same attack potency)

About Lilithmon ... I think a haxxed character vs a faster character is a fair battle. (Like they just did Flash vs Goku ... Goku has a greeeeater AP and Durability, but Flash is faster)

About Amaterasu ... now we know even with Time stop, he would lose. But yeah, great AP and Dura difference.

In Yugi fight, someone said that the speed equalized means just travel speed, and the ki attacks would blitz Yugi before the prior summoning of a monster.


Agreed with Thor.
 
None of the hax you described belong to the god cards, additionally spells and traps were later realized to be game mechnaics by the own series (Season 5) and have no actual effect.
 
@Takato

Viral: His mech moves at comparable speeds to Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, not really an issue.

In Lilithmon's case, the speed difference was absurd (as in a magnitude of 10-50x SoL vs At least 50,000,000,000 SoL)

Yugi fight, Speed equalized means everything is equalized. Meaning that Yugi would still be able to dodge or better yet, put up a strong enough monster to block it.
 
These fights are made with arguments.

TLT1 argued that Viral can't really touch Goku. And it seens reasonable.

In Lilithmon's case, yeah. We can remove that one, but remove the Flash battle from the losses too, by the same reason.

Yugi fight, even with speed initially equalized, Goku was able to use kaioken. So ...
 
When it comes to DB I feel their is slight bias like Beerus vs Hao Hao has no physical form yet people claimed Beerus could beat him....
 
@Cal does that really matter when Flash makes AP absolutely invalid in this case and there is nothing Goku could possibly do to him?
 
That's the point. Without Flash's hax, the best he could hope for is inconclusive. That's what makes it not a stomp unlike the other aforementioned matches.
 
@Cal both situations are stomps.

Take away Flash's speed and hax, Goku instantly oneshots

Let Flash have all his powers, he dodges everything effortlessly, negates durability, instantly kills Goku and there is absolutely nothing he could ever hope to do to fight him off with.

The match just shouldn't exist. Plain and simple.
 
Well, I think I got it ... By the logic we're going here, Goku vs Flash thread was meant to be with speed equalized. And it doesn't make any sense, because it would be a stomp in Goku's favor via higher AP.

Same case with Lilithmon, but via hax.

I think we should revise the speedstomp rule ... or create a haxstomp rule.
 
I mean ... if you equalize the speed and put Goku (a guy without serious hax) vs a haxxed character ... it would be a stomp.

If this about haxstomp rule be accepted, we should remove most of Goku losses too.

Because most of the battles were with speed equalization.

So, we should remove VS SBP, VS Mikaboshi, VS Sentry etc.
 
-Viral vs Goku match TLT brought up an argument that no one refuted in the thread, Viral speed was also brought up but the match itself is debatable.

-Yugi only hax is mind crush but with speed equalized, when Yugi even thinks to get close to Goku his martial arts, ki blast and being more versitile would be enough to take Yugi and his monsters down not saying it would be easy to defeat the monster but Yugi himself is weak.

Also i think Goku vs Link should be removed, Goku speed was equalized and he had no way to beat link but on the otherhand Link had haxs to put Goku down that it is not even funny. Took away Goku only advantage in the fight.

The others can be removed.
 
I'm against what you guys are saying with Goku and hax battles for two reasons. For one, it would be taking away innate abilities of the characters. It would be restricting them too much. Think of it like this. There's a kid who is perfectly normal in every way except that he has reality warping vs Goku. Normally, Goku blitzes with ease. Equalize speed, it becomes fairer because Goku has experience and if he gets up close, the kid is done. However, take away hax, and it's literally a kid vs Goku.

Second reason is more important imo. It makes DB characters invincible for many reasons. Seriously, tell me one character who can beat Goku or Beerus without hax or speedblitz and in the same tier. Here are the main reasons for DB victory: Experience (you can't beat someone who's been fighting since toddlerhood), Instant Transmission, and Range, even though Goku couldn't or wouldn't use that universal range in a fight. Plus the fact that they're above base universal, and most fictions don't go above that without dealing with higher dimensions.

TL;DR: If haxstomp rule is put in place, we'd look biased to dragon ball and be ridiculously less efficient.

@Ryu. The thing is, when the match was first made, everyone was saying Goku lolstomps. I mean, if that Dies Irae guy was able to beat Flash in that thread if he could activate Briah in time, I wouldn't be against it getting added though he had ridiculously better hax. Seiya wouldn't have any wins in that case either. As a matter of fact, maybe I should check that out and see if his matches are legit or not.

Now on to my final thing. Matches that should be taken off should be the ones that did plus vs Sonic. Someone should redo the Viral one, and maybe check some of his losses to be impartial.
 
Agreed with the real calc howard i am going to be a bit blunt here and say taking away hax from goku's opponents just shows a bias towards dbs characters, i can understand the need to want to make the fights more even but the fact is while dbs chracters have incredible raw power and speed that can only get them so far, hax is an insurmmountable wall that they can't deal with at the moment. Taking away the hax from the opposition is basically nerfing them in order for dbs characters to win which is really pathetic imo, if you have to take away what makes a character that character in order for another one to win the fight shouldn't happen in the first place.
 
@Celestrial

I am heavily against restricting the hax of characters. I never said that should be done for Goku vs Wally since then it'd be a stomp in Goku's favor.

@Cal

1. I don't care if Goku got wanked in that thread. Doesn't change the fact it's a stomp.

2. Dies Irae is completely irrelevant in this topic. As is Saint Seiya

3. It's not just that Flash has better hax. It's that Goku literally cannot do ANYTHING to him. You might as well put a grown man against an infant that's tied up to a tree. Bloodlusted Wally is ridiculously OP. It is completely unfair for Goku to be put up against someone like that and if anything implying Goku could be a match for him is downplaying Wally.
 
@Ryukuma i wasn't addressing you in particular as i was just stating what i thought on matches involving dbs characters vs haxed characters.Removing the hax of any hax characters so dbs characters can match them just shows how lacking dbs in the hax category hopefully in the future they will have hax but right now its either they speedblitz or get haxed against haxed characters. Anyway i agree with your points.
 
@Celestrial tbh I didn't really think you were referring to me I more so wanted to make my point clear to everyone. I do agree with you that taking away hax of characters is ridiculous and will typically result in a stomp in DBS's favor. I'm rather okay with matches that have an obvious victor but when it gets to a point where a character literally cannot do anything then I don't think that thread should be added. If character X cannot handle character Y's hax without it being a stomp then just don't put X and Y in a match lol.
 
I don't said that we have to restric the hax.

But, if we remove Goku's speed, it will be a hax vs raw power, and hax >>>> raw power.

It's a stomp anyway. So ... like @Ryukama said, just don't put X and Y in a match.
 
We have 3 types of stomps on the thread

AP,Speed and Hax

Wally was all fits all 3

He negates Durability and Goku has to resistence to it so that already fits AP

Do I really need to elaborate on Speed

Wally has speed steal so it doesn't even matter if Speed was equalized and that just one example of ridiculess Hax

The only way that fight can happen without it being a stomp is if Wally had no hax for it and you wanna know the real kicker,even if that were the case Goku still wouldn't be able to beat Wally because hes to freaking fast.
 
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