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Can Pan actually beat Trunks younger self while he is a Super Saiyan?
I am the son of the Prince of the Saiyans!
I am the son of the Prince of the Saiyans!
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SSJ Kid trunks vs Pan (GT)
- Thread starter DBZMLP12345
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GT Pan is ridiculously strong. She didn't do any damage, but she knocked General Rild on his a***, something which amazed Trunks and made him wonder if she was stronger than him. She tanked a blast from Super Saiyan Goten-Baby. She put Android #20 in a hold that he couldn't get out of, and he complimented her on her strength. Her power in the Evil Dragon arc was enough to bring Qi Xing Long (Naturon) from piddling and irrelevant to enough to harm Super Saiyan 4 Goku (after he'd lost the will to fight).
Pan at her peak in GT, during the battle against Qi Xing Long was fast enough to mock the speed of Qi, who was able to take SS4 Goku's punches, something Goku even commented on as an impressive feat, and when he absorbed her, Qi was able to thrash Goku once Goku was drained of his Shouki and Yuuki. Pan absolutely destroys.
Pan at her peak in GT, during the battle against Qi Xing Long was fast enough to mock the speed of Qi, who was able to take SS4 Goku's punches, something Goku even commented on as an impressive feat, and when he absorbed her, Qi was able to thrash Goku once Goku was drained of his Shouki and Yuuki. Pan absolutely destroys.
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i think this was made back when pan was high 4-C
a more appropriate battle would be pan vs base kid trunks imo
a more appropriate battle would be pan vs base kid trunks imo
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BoGT Pan would kill base Trunks with her pinky. :/The Living Tribunal1 said:
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how so? both are ranked at 4-CIchigo Freecs said:
and 4-C isnt all that wide
even if she is at a higher level of 4-C, she will require at least medium effort to win
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I don't give a shit about character profiles here. I provided enough evidence that she would destroy anyone in Dragon Ball Z with ease.The Living Tribunal1 said:
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destroy anyone in dbz? wow what??
even ssj3 goku ?
if u wanna upgrade her, then instead of arguing here, make an upgrade thread, and we will see what happens afterwards
even ssj3 goku ?
if u wanna upgrade her, then instead of arguing here, make an upgrade thread, and we will see what happens afterwards
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IIRC, Pan's best actual feat was making Gero look like garbage. Everything else she does is relatively unimpressive, in comparison.
She knocked Rildo back, but didn't do any actual damage.
She was absorbed by Naturon and gave him the power to fight Goku, which wouldn't be nearly as unimpressive had Goku lost the will to fight due to not wanting to hurt Pan.
She fired some blasts into Golden Oozaru Baby Vegeta for a while, but Baby was pretty much just humoring her for a second before casually putting her down in a single hit. Granted, Trunks didn't do much better.
She knocked Rildo back, but didn't do any actual damage.
She was absorbed by Naturon and gave him the power to fight Goku, which wouldn't be nearly as unimpressive had Goku lost the will to fight due to not wanting to hurt Pan.
She fired some blasts into Golden Oozaru Baby Vegeta for a while, but Baby was pretty much just humoring her for a second before casually putting her down in a single hit. Granted, Trunks didn't do much better.
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I wasn't rude or anything. I was just stating the obvious. I apologize if anyone was offended here.KuuIchigo said:
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Yeah.The Living Tribunal1 said:
Even SSjin Vegetto.
Did I say that I want to upgrade her or whatever? I don't have time for that at the moment, but when I get time, I might get to that later on.
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Really?Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
So what? She was capable of knocking someone who's considered more powerful than Gohan-Boo when he was fully aware she's coming. That speaks about her power more than anything.
She still gave him enough power to beat Goku around, regardless of him willing or not. She even mocked Qi Xing Long's speed.
Do you realize how strong Golden Oozaru Baby Vegeta is? 2nd Transformation Baby Vegeta's power far exceeds that of Super Vegetto. Baby undergoes two more transformations until he reaches his Golden Oozaru form that's even more powerful than SSjin 4 Goku, so yeah.. :/
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Rildo was only ever stated to be "stronger than Majin Buu". That by no means indicates he's stronger than all of Buu's fusions. However, that doesn't even matter in this case, considering she did no actual damage. Tien did more against Semi-Perfect Cell (while still doing no damage) and wasn't even close to Cell's level.Ichigo Freecs said:
Mocking his speed has no relation to his power. Also, it's been established in Dragon Ball that having your guard down, ki lowered, or losing the will to fight causes a pretty severe drop in power. Getting absorbed by the weakest shadow dragon who then proceeds to beat up on your grandfather who has just lost the will to fight is not a good feat, nor does it imply she's anywhere near SSJ4 Goku's level in the Shadow Dragon Arc.
Yeah, he's very strong, but he still put her down in the most casual shot possible. Everything you've presented makes it seem like you're suggesting Pan is anywhere near the same ballpark as SSJ4 Goku, though stuff like this makes it clear that's not the case at all. In fact, this works in conjunction with the above point that her power boost still didn't make Naturon anywhere close to a full power SSJ4 Goku's level in the Shadow Dragon Arc, because this would suggest her being somewhere around the level of Baby Arc SSJ4 Goku or even Baby Vegeta, which, again, isn't the case.
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It would obviously mean the most powerful Boo he fought, otherwise he would have stated so. I'm not implying that Pan is close to him, but that she's not a weakling. Tien was capable of doing that because he was using an ability that used his life force to fuel his Shinkikoho. Pan just kicked him.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
In Dragon Ball, speed is related to power. Okay, even if he had a severe drop in power, he won't go to like base form power or something like that. It establishes that Pan was capable of making Qi Xing Long that powerful.
Again, I'm not saying that Pan is as powerful as SSjin 4 Goku, but she's still very powerful. She was powerful to the point that it made Trunks question himself if he or she was stronger back in the first arc, and all GT characters are ridiculously powerful. At the end of the series, her being more powerful than 2nd Transformation Baby Vegeta wouldn't be far fetched.
Anyway, she takes this fight w/o any problems.
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He didn't fight Buuhan, though. He didn't even fight Super Buu head on. The strongest Buu he fought was Kid Buu. Yes, but Tien's was more impressive. However, as I said, both did no damage.Ichigo Freecs said:
Speed isn't always related to power. Remember SSJ Grade 2 Trunks vs Perfect Cell? Though being faster than someone doesn't confirm you're on a whole other level. Again, she made him more powerful, but it's really not nearly as impressive since Goku was holding back. It's not like he wanted to accidentally destroy her. It's also important to note that Naturon's power gain is not linear. Remember how powerful he became from just absorbing a mole?
I'm not arguing that she's not powerful. I'm arguing that with lack of any feats better than bodying Gero and no absurd training between arcs, she likely didn't get an astronomical rise in power.
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He fought him as Super Vegetto. Tien was capable of doing that because he was using a technique that used his life force as a fuel. We don't know how powerful that is when it comes to Dragon Ball standards of power levels, but we know it held Semi-Perfect Cell long enough to do the job. That's it. Pan went ahead and kicked Rilldo when he knew she was coming, and it was just a kick, not a technique.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
That was SSjin Grade 3, SSjin Grade 2 actually increases your speed alongside your power. Anyway, that transformation directly impacted his speed. Remember Kaio-ken? It increased power and speed in the amount. Yeah, his absorption isn't linear, it increases his power exponentionally, but it made him more powerful than SSjin 4 Goku.
People in GT gain power without training (IE Goku). He goes from fighting Base Rilldo in base and requiring Super Saiyan when Rilldo transformed, to beating Super Saiyan Baby Gohan and the rest in just base form. Even Gohan and the rest become more powerful with each arc. With Pan, it's the same thing. Gero must be much stronger than his Z self anyway. Take a look at Android 17. Probably the same thing happened to Gero, but on a lower scale.
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Vegetto is not Goku. Goku would not be able to accurately compare Rildo and Buuhan since he never fought the latter (or any form of Super Buu) on his own. Again, Tien actually managed to hold Cell down for a while. Yes, it was a technique, but all of Tien's life force is by definition not greater than the sum of his power. Pan kicked Rildo and did no actual damage. It's the same as trying to prove Pan's power by her slightly moving Golden Oozaru Baby's body with ki blasts.
Right, my mistake. Anyway, yes, the transformation traded speed for power, but that shows the two are not always moving upwards together, nor are they doing so at the exact same rate (which is something Kaio-ken specifically does, as opposed to most other multipliers). I'm really not sure Naturon being superior to a gimped SSJ4 Goku is the same as being superior to a full power SSJ4 Goku actively fighting back at his fullest.
That's not legitimate power increase. That's inconsistency. I also don't recall anything suggesting characters like Goten and Gohan became stronger without training at all. The only one I could see that for is Uub, and that's specifically due to the nature of his latent power. As for Gero, nothing indicates he received any sort of power increase on a noticeable level. He'd spent the past several years in Hell, and most of the important stuff he did was working with Myuu.
Right, my mistake. Anyway, yes, the transformation traded speed for power, but that shows the two are not always moving upwards together, nor are they doing so at the exact same rate (which is something Kaio-ken specifically does, as opposed to most other multipliers). I'm really not sure Naturon being superior to a gimped SSJ4 Goku is the same as being superior to a full power SSJ4 Goku actively fighting back at his fullest.
That's not legitimate power increase. That's inconsistency. I also don't recall anything suggesting characters like Goten and Gohan became stronger without training at all. The only one I could see that for is Uub, and that's specifically due to the nature of his latent power. As for Gero, nothing indicates he received any sort of power increase on a noticeable level. He'd spent the past several years in Hell, and most of the important stuff he did was working with Myuu.
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Again, he did fight him as Super Vegetto. Also let me tell you how he's even capable of comparing others to Super Vegetto. He said that first transformation Baby Vegeta is the most powerful ki he ever felt, which means that it even surpasses that of Vegetto himself. So assuming that he meant the most powerful Boo is logical. He didn't say he had the same strength as Boo, but he's stronger than Boo. More the reason to assume he meant the most powerful. Also, at the end of Z, Goku himself was capable of fighting Oob in base. Oob had that surge of Kid Boo's strength when he attacked Goku while enraged. Goku didn't get oneshotted or anything. He took on the attack and that's it. Fast forward to GT, and it was stated that Goku at the beginning has power comparable to that of his SSjin 3 self. SSjin 3 Goku at the end of Z would be ridiculously powerful. Much more powerful than Kid Boo, but not quite the levels of Gohan-Boo. This even proves that Goku got stronger each time when he travelled with Pan and Trunks. So if we assumed that Rilldo was just more powerful than Kid Boo, then why didn't Goku oneshot him? Why did he have a little bit of trouble against him? Because he's even more powerful than Gohan-Boo.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
Not quite the same. Pan attacked Rilldo physically head on, while she hit Baby when he didn't know. Quite the difference.
Not really. Also Gohan and Goten became stronger after Baby took control of them, and they kept the Baby boost. I don't remember the details, as I haven't seen GT in years, but the group were stronger each arc. Getting more powerful in GT is an easy thing, so how wouldn't Gero be stronger as well? Android 17 was in hell, and he got hella stronger. You don't need training. Maybe swapping parts? If Gero assumed he could be out in the open in GT with his Z levels of power, he might as well thought about suicide.
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This thread feels derailed... However trunks would most likely win. If they are in character we could assume trunks mocking her would enrage her and when people are mad they frequently have their judgement clouded and she might make a fatal mistake.
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- Thread starter
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Would Pan actually blitz now given the recent speed upgrade for the GT characters?
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How come Pan (and Gero and Frieza and SSJ1 Namek Goku etc) got reduced to Star Level insted of Star Level +, As for the battle VS battle wiki rules, either no conclusion or Pan as she is listed as MFTL+ while Trunks is FTL+, so if she could spam her strongest KI blasts and hit Trunks hundreds of times without getting hit once (which is apparently possible to to her speed), then she takes it. As for in universe (no tiers etc just DB logic), It's shown alot in GT the Pan is around the same strength as adult Trunks, but that usually depends on the situation. I'd say, normally, SSJ1 Kid Trunks would beat Pan, but if Pan gets enraged (something she inherits from her father and paternal grandmother), the I think she could take SSJ1 Kid Trunks, (and even SSJ1 GT Trunks). She was able to off guard Rildo who > Buu who in most cases >= SSJ3 Z Goku
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Pan via speed that it
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someone please close this thread now
pan has got new changes as of now and hence she speed stomps
pan has got new changes as of now and hence she speed stomps
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