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We don't have much to discuss here.
We only saw him raise the pain filter, strip admin priviledge and summon a sword.
We can't scale him to Kayaba's reflexes buff (he stated his real reflexes won't get him anywhere in a real fight against youngsters), immortal object and superspeed buff (where his shield goes faster than Starburst Stream's downward slash; a slash from a sword skill is faster than what a person, even Kirito, is capable of in realtime combat), removing the ability to commit suicide (albeit Asuna did exploit a hole where she gets killed by Heathcliff's sword instead), and mass paralysis...
as we don't know if he even knows how to use any of those.
Hacking the game to turn Yui into an item saved in the local storage of his Nerve Gear is one thing, having the prior knowledge and capability to make use of the Cardinal System for any of those things is another.
I suggest we make two new Kirito tabs: Alicization Kirito (pre-war), and Alicization Incarnate Kirito (war arc) instead, atleast, when War Arc Alicization is translated.
We only saw him raise the pain filter, strip admin priviledge and summon a sword.
We can't scale him to Kayaba's reflexes buff (he stated his real reflexes won't get him anywhere in a real fight against youngsters), immortal object and superspeed buff (where his shield goes faster than Starburst Stream's downward slash; a slash from a sword skill is faster than what a person, even Kirito, is capable of in realtime combat), removing the ability to commit suicide (albeit Asuna did exploit a hole where she gets killed by Heathcliff's sword instead), and mass paralysis...
as we don't know if he even knows how to use any of those.
Hacking the game to turn Yui into an item saved in the local storage of his Nerve Gear is one thing, having the prior knowledge and capability to make use of the Cardinal System for any of those things is another.
I suggest we make two new Kirito tabs: Alicization Kirito (pre-war), and Alicization Incarnate Kirito (war arc) instead, atleast, when War Arc Alicization is translated.
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very well, in said world Kirito's admin level is Kayaba's which ranks at the highest due the main server being that of his combined.
Using some random analysis, I will attempt to make sense of Kirito's admin powers.
the number of worlds created by the "seed" which is basically kayaba's copy of SAO's data, which further game companies used woudl mean that there could be many different worlds from ALO (like gun gale online etc all created from Kayaba's interface system or something)
if we go by that logic Kirito may be from 2-C to 2-B, depending on the number of worlds. if there are multiple servers for that he may be more likely 2-B, (you can see that it's kind of absurd but since we're interpreting worlds=data worlds, I suppose this could be one possible interpretation)
There's no real evidence for higher dimensions but i suppose a computer programmer could make as many higher dimensions as he wants since it's just numbers. though it would be a pretty boring game. I don't think we should include something like higher dimensions for SAO even though computers logically could be able computer higher dimensions as numbers in a cartesian plane to simply because it's too speculative
lastly if we interpret Kirito's admin powers as control over only ALO he would probably be low 2-C or something like that, unless they had backup or mirror servers
Basically there are a few variables here to play with for admin powers
1. size of game (which i explained can be defined by your data storage capacity) or we could just use the interpretation of one game=one universe, debating on size seems kind of irrelevant since computers are limited by their data storage space but can kind of copy one block of land infinitely as long as their computers allow
2. number of games (if we are assuming each game=1 universe)
3. and content of each game (What i mean for this is that if some random guy makese Demonbane The Game, that would kind of raise that game's tier, if Kirito can somehow take control of that game due to it being a subset of the seed, then his level becomes higher)
Using some random analysis, I will attempt to make sense of Kirito's admin powers.
the number of worlds created by the "seed" which is basically kayaba's copy of SAO's data, which further game companies used woudl mean that there could be many different worlds from ALO (like gun gale online etc all created from Kayaba's interface system or something)
if we go by that logic Kirito may be from 2-C to 2-B, depending on the number of worlds. if there are multiple servers for that he may be more likely 2-B, (you can see that it's kind of absurd but since we're interpreting worlds=data worlds, I suppose this could be one possible interpretation)
There's no real evidence for higher dimensions but i suppose a computer programmer could make as many higher dimensions as he wants since it's just numbers. though it would be a pretty boring game. I don't think we should include something like higher dimensions for SAO even though computers logically could be able computer higher dimensions as numbers in a cartesian plane to simply because it's too speculative
lastly if we interpret Kirito's admin powers as control over only ALO he would probably be low 2-C or something like that, unless they had backup or mirror servers
Basically there are a few variables here to play with for admin powers
1. size of game (which i explained can be defined by your data storage capacity) or we could just use the interpretation of one game=one universe, debating on size seems kind of irrelevant since computers are limited by their data storage space but can kind of copy one block of land infinitely as long as their computers allow
2. number of games (if we are assuming each game=1 universe)
3. and content of each game (What i mean for this is that if some random guy makese Demonbane The Game, that would kind of raise that game's tier, if Kirito can somehow take control of that game due to it being a subset of the seed, then his level becomes higher)
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Since all games in SAO, originate from the seed, which is based on SAO all admin functions throughout the games are likely possible. Some things that we know they can do are resetting characters to level 1, which in a vs debate would likely equate to reducing them to human levels of power, or to the level of power from the beginning of their series. As well as total negation of harm (omnilock), giving status ailments, summoning any item (including items that will revive him when he dies, healing items) and low scale time manipulation for speed and reaction boosts. Some things that admins can likely do include banning and kicking players (most basic admin ability ever), usage of any magic type ( another basic admin ability), undoing large scale events such as the destruction of a city (was shown in a non-canon source), and unlimited flight (was implied in ALO). Of course as Gremmysaur said we have no way of knowing if Kirito knows how to use it, but he's likely good enough with computers to figure it out, whether he can do it in the heat of battle is unknown.
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@Gemmysaur Agreed. Still wondering why he doesn't have Alicization tabs.
Also, i already explained Kirito's admin powers on the other thread, and i won't repeat everything i said there. Aurasuke and the SAO wanker there can talk about it all they want, i'm not going into that discussion.
Also, i already explained Kirito's admin powers on the other thread, and i won't repeat everything i said there. Aurasuke and the SAO wanker there can talk about it all they want, i'm not going into that discussion.
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Just thought I should point out that Kirito has no ability to destroy anything as an admin except through things like crashing servers, which we don't know if he can do, and a few specific situations like destroying castle aincrad, or something like the destruction caused by the Calibur SS arc. He might be able to do something like reset the universe with "backup saves" of the world, like in the Calibur SS arc, but we don't know for sure. What he does have for sure is lots of hax like what I described above, that could give him a big advantage in a fight, or make it downright unfair.
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You can't just come up with every admin power that could possibly exist, you have to limit it to just what was actually showed in the novels. What you're doing is like me saying Ajimu Najimi can do anything, just cause she has 14 trillion skills
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@Blablah He didn't destoy Aincrad. Aincrad was programmed to self-destruct when the last boss was killed. Was the "bad end" to the Calibur arc completed? I never found the whole thing.
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When has he demonstrated any of those abilities? You basically just pulled random abilities out of the Superpower wiki and said Kirito can use them.T0234807H said:
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He never used any of them. This guy is either the most hardcore wanker/fanboy i have ever seen in my entire life, or a troll.The Everlasting said:
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Sorry if it was unclear, I was trying to say he can only destroy things that were already programmed to be destroyed. If I'm remembering correctly it has been completed but I don't know if it's been translated, but there's a synopsis of it on the SAO wiki that I read a while back.NotEvenHuman said:
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Shoot, I was misremembering how the side story ended, ignore what I said about using backup saves of the world to overwrite it that never happened
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Wait, you were talking about the canon ending to Calibur SS? I thought you were talking about the bad end, since that's the only point in the story where overwriting the world with backup saves is mentioned.Blahblah9755 said:
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No I was talking about the bad end, but it turns out that that isn't what happened (at least not according to the SAO wiki's synopsis which is what I'm using as my source)
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Sorry but where/what are the questions you're answering? I'm seriously lost :/T0234807H said:
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@Blahblah He's not answering anything, he's talking out of his ass. Aincrad is Island size at best, ALO is Planet sized AT BEST, and this is probably high-balling. GGO is unknown. Alicization is nowhere close to a multiverse. I'd say it's Continent sized if we consider the Dark Territory.
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@KuuIchigo How anyone can take him seriously is beyond me.
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^ @ not even human
I realize that you think T0 is a wanker, but don't you think you're just downplaying the abilities of a computer a bit? The virtual world is far different from the real world.
You speak as if administrators are bound by size when really all of that is just numbers to them. If they wanted they could make a space with inifnite size and absolutely nothing as long as the data storage allows. The virtual world isn't like the real world, everything that is simulated is just a bunch of numbers.
Saying that an administrator is only planet level due to the size of the map just doesn't make any sense. It's a baseless argument and makes no sense. Basically what you're saying is an admin is restricted to the size of the playable game map when there exists an pretty much infinite amount of space with absolutely nothing.
If we treat this from a real world perspective say that I'm playing skyrim on my computer, but what do you know I downloaded an Azathoth mod whose really powerful and has a high HP bar. Azazthoth is tier 0 in his world, but in real life he's just an idea, and in the game he's just an object. I as an administrator can control anything within the game as I like, including deleting or spawning Azathoths. No matter how high Azatoth's HP bar is or whatever powers they have I can always override it because I am an Administrator.
Basically as a real life person with admin previliges anything in the game is just an object that I can modify, duplicate or delete.
That's what it means to be an administrator, not some random planet level reality warper.
^However Kirito has never shown himself fightning an object called Azathoth or any type of monster that is at that level.
The problem with admin powers is that if we are actually going to make a profile for them, the type of power an admin controls over the virtual realm is always going to absolute. That's not to say he can actually defeat someone like Goku in real life, but if Goku or even Elder God Demonbane is nothing more than an object then he can logically delete them.
Obvious this is why there's a problem when you try to assign a tier to a virtual world. It has no effect on the real world, but in the virtual world, if his opponents are virtual data there's no way he can ever lose.
Anyway, I'm getting off track here comparing real life admin with Kirito's "Admin"
There's just too many variables at play here to assign a proper tier in my opnion. There's the type of game, power of the game, story of the game, whether or not he can influences all games, whether or not a game like elder god demonbane has been created,
and whether or not we care about the size of the game or anything of that sort.
Conclusion
assume kirito can control ALO only, and that ALO= one universe
disregard Kirito's possible control of other games especially if they have high tier gods such as elder god demonbane in them, as the seed had produced a plethora of new virtual reality games
disregard mirror servers of ALO because even though game companies are likely to exist we're not going to bother with them
disregard the presence of any other games period such as GGO as Kirito has only ever had full influence over ALO, GGO hadn't been made then, but I suppose since it has the safe basic functions as ALO,
Kayaba's admin prievileges would probably be able to modify that game too, (Kayaba's admin powers came from SAO, ALO used the same platform which is why he was able to control them)
I realize that you think T0 is a wanker, but don't you think you're just downplaying the abilities of a computer a bit? The virtual world is far different from the real world.
You speak as if administrators are bound by size when really all of that is just numbers to them. If they wanted they could make a space with inifnite size and absolutely nothing as long as the data storage allows. The virtual world isn't like the real world, everything that is simulated is just a bunch of numbers.
Saying that an administrator is only planet level due to the size of the map just doesn't make any sense. It's a baseless argument and makes no sense. Basically what you're saying is an admin is restricted to the size of the playable game map when there exists an pretty much infinite amount of space with absolutely nothing.
If we treat this from a real world perspective say that I'm playing skyrim on my computer, but what do you know I downloaded an Azathoth mod whose really powerful and has a high HP bar. Azazthoth is tier 0 in his world, but in real life he's just an idea, and in the game he's just an object. I as an administrator can control anything within the game as I like, including deleting or spawning Azathoths. No matter how high Azatoth's HP bar is or whatever powers they have I can always override it because I am an Administrator.
Basically as a real life person with admin previliges anything in the game is just an object that I can modify, duplicate or delete.
That's what it means to be an administrator, not some random planet level reality warper.
^However Kirito has never shown himself fightning an object called Azathoth or any type of monster that is at that level.
The problem with admin powers is that if we are actually going to make a profile for them, the type of power an admin controls over the virtual realm is always going to absolute. That's not to say he can actually defeat someone like Goku in real life, but if Goku or even Elder God Demonbane is nothing more than an object then he can logically delete them.
Obvious this is why there's a problem when you try to assign a tier to a virtual world. It has no effect on the real world, but in the virtual world, if his opponents are virtual data there's no way he can ever lose.
Anyway, I'm getting off track here comparing real life admin with Kirito's "Admin"
There's just too many variables at play here to assign a proper tier in my opnion. There's the type of game, power of the game, story of the game, whether or not he can influences all games, whether or not a game like elder god demonbane has been created,
and whether or not we care about the size of the game or anything of that sort.
Conclusion
assume kirito can control ALO only, and that ALO= one universe
disregard Kirito's possible control of other games especially if they have high tier gods such as elder god demonbane in them, as the seed had produced a plethora of new virtual reality games
disregard mirror servers of ALO because even though game companies are likely to exist we're not going to bother with them
disregard the presence of any other games period such as GGO as Kirito has only ever had full influence over ALO, GGO hadn't been made then, but I suppose since it has the safe basic functions as ALO,
Kayaba's admin prievileges would probably be able to modify that game too, (Kayaba's admin powers came from SAO, ALO used the same platform which is why he was able to control them)
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When was Aincrad ever said to be like a planet? Aincrad has 100 floors. The first floor is the size of a city. The higher the floor, the smaller it is. Sorry, not a planet. ALO is not Norse Mythology, it's heavilily inspired by it. As proof, Thor from the ACTUAL Norse Mythology is Moon level, but the one in SAO is like, Multi-City Block at best. Alicization does have a goddess of creation, but her creation power is not only extremely limited, it also puts an extreme burden on the body. Said goddess is also Mountain level at best. It wasn't the "admin system" that created the Super Accounts. It was never mentioned who created them. But it probably was the Cardinal System, and the Cardinal System is on a whole another level compared to admin powers.T0234807H said:
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^ The size of a game is actually limited to the data storage capactiy, the size of the playable map is limited to the number of hours a programmer wants to put into it.
See above for reasons why using the size of a game map is a stupid argument in a virtual world.
See above for reasons why using the size of a game map is a stupid argument in a virtual world.
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@Aurasuke I believe i already said that you two can talk about this as much as you want, i'm not going into that discussion. Also, i don't "think" he's a wanker, i KNOW he's a wanker. You're wanking too, btw. Anyway, i'm done with this subject, so don't waste your time replying to this.
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^
This is why I don't like talking with people who don't know computers. If you understood at leas the basics of programming you wouldn't make such ridiculous claims of how size matters in a virtual world.
Perhaps Skyrim is also tier 6 because the divines can only control a finite map?
This is why having virtual world vs real world (as in real world in fiction) is inconsistent and stupid. Anyway, I'm also done talking here unless someone else gives a legitimate opinion.
This is why I don't like talking with people who don't know computers. If you understood at leas the basics of programming you wouldn't make such ridiculous claims of how size matters in a virtual world.
Perhaps Skyrim is also tier 6 because the divines can only control a finite map?
This is why having virtual world vs real world (as in real world in fiction) is inconsistent and stupid. Anyway, I'm also done talking here unless someone else gives a legitimate opinion.
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@Aura, personally I think we should forego trying to give him a tier and just say what kind of hax have been shown by the admins throughout the games, since as you've pointed out it's a too difficult to actually determine his tier.
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I still stand by my original statement...
We only saw him raise the pain filter, strip admin priviledge and summon a sword.
We can't scale him to Kayaba because Kayaba created the game and the World Seed, he knows pretty much most if not all there is to know about it. Kirito, however, does not. He hasn't shown the reflexes buff (Kayaba stated his real reflexes won't get him anywhere in a real fight against youngsters), immortal object (total immunity) and superspeed buff (where Kayaba's shield goes faster than Starburst Stream's downward slash; a slash from a sword skill is faster than what a person, even Kirito, is capable of in realtime combat), removing the ability to commit suicide (albeit Asuna did exploit a hole where she gets killed by Heathcliff's sword instead), and mass paralysis.
Hacking the game to turn Yui into an item saved in the local storage of his Nerve Gear is one thing, having the prior knowledge and capability to make use of the Cardinal System for any of those things and higher is another.
That's pretty low-tier reality warping anyway if we consider the games as actual worlds, even if he can influence said worlds.
Also...
Aincrad = Island at best
ALO = Continent at best
GGO = Planetoid maybe given that it has space ships but it's never been show
UW = Continent at best
We only saw him raise the pain filter, strip admin priviledge and summon a sword.
We can't scale him to Kayaba because Kayaba created the game and the World Seed, he knows pretty much most if not all there is to know about it. Kirito, however, does not. He hasn't shown the reflexes buff (Kayaba stated his real reflexes won't get him anywhere in a real fight against youngsters), immortal object (total immunity) and superspeed buff (where Kayaba's shield goes faster than Starburst Stream's downward slash; a slash from a sword skill is faster than what a person, even Kirito, is capable of in realtime combat), removing the ability to commit suicide (albeit Asuna did exploit a hole where she gets killed by Heathcliff's sword instead), and mass paralysis.
Hacking the game to turn Yui into an item saved in the local storage of his Nerve Gear is one thing, having the prior knowledge and capability to make use of the Cardinal System for any of those things and higher is another.
That's pretty low-tier reality warping anyway if we consider the games as actual worlds, even if he can influence said worlds.
Also...
Aincrad = Island at best
ALO = Continent at best
GGO = Planetoid maybe given that it has space ships but it's never been show
UW = Continent at best
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@Gemmysaur We should let this topic die, honestly.
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Probably because that's web novel exclusive for now. In the LN, Kirito is still in his coma.Natse said:
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I agree with Gemmysaur. We cannot use pure speculation to place Kirito at 2-B or above.
In addition, as far as I am aware virtual worlds are still just simulations of 3-Dimensional space, not capable of projecting higher-dimensional infinity.
Also, Aurasuke, you are being a constant bother for the wiki in one way or another. Currently you are apparently speculating about that a character that can summon a sword is stronger than Elder God Demonbane.
In addition, as far as I am aware virtual worlds are still just simulations of 3-Dimensional space, not capable of projecting higher-dimensional infinity.
Also, Aurasuke, you are being a constant bother for the wiki in one way or another. Currently you are apparently speculating about that a character that can summon a sword is stronger than Elder God Demonbane.
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This is correct. A computer can say...simulate and show you the 3-D fragment of a 5-D hypercube, but it cannot actually create a 5-D construct.Antvasima said:
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Probably, yes.
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^ That's not what I meant. What i wanted to say is that it's all a matter of perspective. If we treat Kirito's real life world with our real life world then the same way we can make a Demonbane Videogame, someone in Sword Art Online can make a game with a similar tier. That's not to say that they did or would, but that something like that could be possible which makes this hard to deal with. Naturally there is no evidence for something like this is which I said we should deny it. Basically I'm saying that background of a game made by the seed would also largely determine the games tier.
Of course since SAO is just fiction you could argue we can't attribute that kind of real world vs fiction level of difference between a virtual world of a fictional text, and the real world of a ficitonal text.
Naturally since SAO and ALO are simply virtual worlds made of information in the novel of SAO, they have zero effect on the world of SAO itself.
Also Kirito would get stomped by anyone whos tier 9 in real life, much less Elder God Demonbane.
I wasn't trying to say that Kirito could beat Elder God Demonbane in the virtual world, I'm simply stating that if we as humans in real life were playing a video game where we had to fight Elder God Demonbane, and we in real life can use admin previleges to defeat any monster of any game.
However given the context of verse battle, and the reality and fiction interaction, I've already stated my reasons why this would not happen even in the virtual world in SAO using verse battle rules.
I do apologize if I caused any confusion though.
Of course since SAO is just fiction you could argue we can't attribute that kind of real world vs fiction level of difference between a virtual world of a fictional text, and the real world of a ficitonal text.
Naturally since SAO and ALO are simply virtual worlds made of information in the novel of SAO, they have zero effect on the world of SAO itself.
Also Kirito would get stomped by anyone whos tier 9 in real life, much less Elder God Demonbane.
I wasn't trying to say that Kirito could beat Elder God Demonbane in the virtual world, I'm simply stating that if we as humans in real life were playing a video game where we had to fight Elder God Demonbane, and we in real life can use admin previleges to defeat any monster of any game.
However given the context of verse battle, and the reality and fiction interaction, I've already stated my reasons why this would not happen even in the virtual world in SAO using verse battle rules.
I do apologize if I caused any confusion though.
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@Antvasima @Azathoth Yes, this should be locked.
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