Warhammer 40k - Primarchs and Stuff

[Promestein]

The Primarchs should just be boosted to "At least 5-A, likely 4-B" (or just straight-up 4-B). Given the presence of nameless greater daemons that can grow to the size of a solar system and the fact that the Primarchs have beaten the strongest Greater Daemons, this should be fine and consistent. It's also a lot better than the weird mess we have right now, and is more consistent with Sanguinius making a tiny ***** in Chaos Horus' armor.

Chaos Horus and Daemon Primarchs should get "At least 4-B, possibly higher". Ditto for Eldrad and Abaddon and anyone else on their level who I may have suddenly forgotten about.

There's really not a lot to say here.

 

[The_Everlasting]

I thought the Greater Daemons were only 4-B within the Eye of Terror, or something.

 

[Promestein]

Even if they were Kharn fights them in there all the time and he's fodder to Primarchs. (Maybe not fodder, but they're stronger).

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I don't really have a problem with this if others don't. Though I think "At least 5-A, likely 4-B" and "Likely 4-B, possibly higher" would be most accurate for Primarchs and Daemon Primarchs respectively.

 

[Promestein]

Yeah I'm fine with that.

 

[Promestein]

Soooooo. Bump?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I suppose it might be worth it to mention these assorted Tier 4 feats, all of which happen in realspace as something to back this up.

• A ship with a Warp portal can wipe out stars.

"This is a spaceship, said Daenyathos. 'A spaceship as huge and deadly as any the Imperium has ever fielded. And now it is a spaceship with a warp portal. I have stolen the Predator s Eye from the star Kravamesh and embedded it in the Phalanxd. What could the great Abraxes desire more than a doorway into the warp from which spills all the legions under his command, and that he can take between the stars as he wishes?'

Abraxes clenched a fist, and his thoughts could almost be read on his face. They were not human thoughts they would not fit in a human mind. 'I shall extinguish stars,' he said. 'I shall weave a pattern across the galaxy, even unto Terra!" - Hammer and Bolter #9

"The vast viewscreen facing the throne, taking up most of the curving from wall of the bridge, showed a panorama of the Veiled Region, with the star Kravamesh glowing along one edge. Kravamesh had turned dark and smouldering, black swarms scudding across its burnt orange orb, as if the star was drained of power to fuel the gate across to the warp that had brought Abraxes into realspace." - Hammer and Bolter #12

• A collection of no-name Tzeentch daemons trigger a dual supernova on accident.

"Daemonic servants of Tzeentch create Warp rifts inside each of the twin suns of Haark. Soon, the leering faces upon the stars drive the entire population of the system insane, but the Daemons' incessant bickering triggers a duel-nova event. With the fate of the system now measured in hours, the Black Consuls Chapter send in Strike Force Ultra Varnor to recover sacred relics from the time of their founding. Captain Varnor and his brothers brave both Daemons and madmen in the burning cities of Haark to collect the relics, narrowly escaping into the void only moments before the stars die spectacularly." - Strike Force Ultra Data Sheet

• The power of the fleets the Imperium and Chaos use against each other.

"Millions perished in the opening assault, and millions more in the inexorable slaughter that followed. Worlds burned. Warriors uncounted bled their last for scraps of worthless, ravaged ground. Graveyards of twisted wreckage twitched in the solar winds, marking the demise of fleets whose firepower could have unmade whole systems. There was no time for mourning, for despair. Cadia's defenders battled on until all strength left them, and then went again into the fight, for there was no respite from the onslaught." - Gathering Storm: Fall of Cadia

• What Magnus does to such fleets, while also fighting ground forces.

"The destruction of five of Titan's most prized assets was beyond countenance. High above the Fang, the masterfully built spacecraft of the Grey Knights Chapter remote-scryed the location of the Daemon Primarch, calibrated their weapons batteries, and fired. Searing ruby-red beams shot from the heavens, all four converging upon the same point as the gunners of the Grey Knights fleet brought their deadliest weapons to bear. By rights they should have reduced Magnus to a steaming crater. In truth, they did little more than drive him to his knees; a hemisphere of invisible force protected him from physical attack, no matter how powerful. The Daemon Primarch rose, laughing cruelly at the impotence of the Imperial order founded to slay his kind.

The rune-casting psykers of Logan's Great Company, gathered under Njal Stormcaller, did not despair. They sent bolts of psychic lightning, ghostly tempests, and blizzards of razored ice-knives that flayed to the bone the Tzaangors cavorting around their master's feet. Yet none of their runic witchery even touched the Crimson King. If anything, Magnus seemed larger and more powerful than before the first salvo had been fired.

The Crimson King's laughter grew louder. Though he now hovered, wings beating slowly, above the Wolf's Gullet, his voice sounded as if he were mere inches from the ear of all who witnessed him. Those who looked upon him directly did so with needles of pain stabbing their minds, for he glowed almost too bright to bear.

With Njal leading their chants, the most powerfulof Fenris' Rune Priests joined their might once more. Slowly, the vast chasm of the Gullet closed upon Magnus, its rocky edges like the jagged teeth of the World Wolf itself. Lava geysered and boiled as the chasm bit with the force of grinding tectonic plates. For a moment, the Daemon Primarch disappeared from sight. At the last, Magnus threw out his arms and held the rocky jaws wide with only his vast telekinetic power, the jagged teeth of the cliffs snapping to tumble into the fires below.

Grand Master Valdar Aurikon stretched out his hands, psychic lightning leaping towards Magnus in a great crackling helix. Magnus caught the attack on his staff and hurled it back, the bolt transforming the Grey Knight into scattering nuggets of fool's gold.

Another focussed lance strike shot down from the heavens. This one Magnus did not dissipate upon his protective dome of force, but instead caught with the curve of his blade before hurling it outwards into the rumbling line of battle tanks that was cresting the ridge. The redirected energies hit home with cataclysmic force, smashing the entire column of war engines to smoking ruin.

Then Magnus reached upwards, the eye in his palm blinking once as it focussed on the spacecraft high above. Uttering a low chant, the Crimson King extended his telekinetic mastery until it soared into the stratosphere and beyond. Space Wolf, Dark Angel and Grey Knight alike stood aghast as the sky was lit with expanding coronas of fire. Those Space Marines who auto-viewed the blazing phenomena witnessed Battle Barges and Strike Cruisers crashing into one another as if flung by some godly hand, their reactors overloading a moment later to throw all of Asaheim into stark monochromatic light.

Fenris had a new monarch, and he was mighty indeed." - Warzone Fenris: Wrath of Magnus

• Shit-tier Warp magos working together can make the stars in the sky go out.

"By way of warpcraft and forbidden psionics, warp-magos could cause the Empyrean to bleed into reality; they could assail the foe with the sanity-shattering wails of damned souls; they could make the stars go out and cause horrifying visions to burn across the night skies." - The Horus Heresy: Tempest

I have some more that aren't Chaos related, as well.

 

[Promestein]

Yeah, those are all absolutely relevant.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"I'm going to make a page for Roboute Guilliman" - Azzy, circa December 2016
In all seriousness, this seems fine.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

*** u matt

Well, now I have a reason to wait.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

This looks all good to me from where i'm seeing.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Oh, and just because...a few examples of non-Chaos related Tier 4 stuff in realspace.

• The Mephrit Dynasty performed multiple feats of stellar to system-wide destruction. Note that most other dynasties avoided this not because they were unable to replicate such feats, but because they simply believed it to be excessive and distasteful.

"Pitiless planet killers, the Mephrit were the solar executioners of the War in Heaven. Stars withered and died under the meticulous attentions of their Crypteks, while their phaerons condemned entire systems to death via hyper-accelerated supernovae. Often, it would be the legions of the Mephrit that the Silent King summoned when a race or planet proved especially defiant, as the dynasty had proven its talent for extermination time and time again. Many other phaerons considered the Mephrit's methods excessive or distasteful by the ancient codes of warfare." - Codex: Necrons (7th ed.)

• More confirmation that C'tan shards are more than capable of devouring/destroying stars.

"The doom of stars and the demise of worlds, the shard of the Nightbringer is death incarnate... Star systems, planets and civilisations have all fallen before its dark scythe, and even the Necrons fear its coming." - Codex: Necrons (7th ed.)

• A trapped, restricted Transcendent C'tan can do this.

"To counteract this threat, each Vault's hull contains layers of node matricies that draw power from the Transcendent C'tan itself, leeching the energies of the god-fragment to maintain the very cage that holds it. Yet even so muzzled, the Transcendent C'tan has might enough to scatter armies to the winds, pervert the flow of time and space, and drag stars from the heavens." - Codex: Necrons (7th ed.)

• The size of Tyranid Hive Fleets. Maugan Ra defeated the forces of an entire tendril by himself.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Speaking of which, this is more minor and not related to the Primarchs, but we should probably make some slight changes to the C'tan shards, as it could easily be argued the shards with high-end Tier 4 feats and potentially higher statements are all considered Transcendent (retain memories of their past life, often sealed away behind extreme safeguard, etc.). Basic shards should still be like at least High 4-C and MFTL+ though, since we get confirmation that shards of the Nightbringer have destroyed stars, and an obscenely weak and starving shard of the Nightbringer travelled 70,000 light years in anywhere under a couple of months just to consume a red giant around 130 times the size of our sun.

"Seventy thousand light years away, the star known to Imperial stellar cartographers as Cydo entered the final stages of its existence. It was a red giant of some ninety million kilometres diameter and had burned for over eight hundred million years. Had it not been for the billowing black shape floating impossibly in the star's photosphere and draining the last of its massive energies, it would probably have continued to do so for perhaps another two thousand.

Normally, it generated energy at a colossal rate by burning hydrogen to helium in nuclear fusion reactions deep in its heart, but its core was no longer able to sustain the massive forces that burned within.

Powerful waves of electromagnetic energy and sprays of plasma formed into a rippling nimbus of coruscating light that washed from the star in pulsing waves. The Nightbringer fed and grew strong again in the depths of the dying star." - Nightbringer

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Tier 4 40K is starting to sound somewhat more consistent than Tier 5 40K. Not that Tier 5 is anything bad of it...right?

But anyways, that also looks fine enough to do for that. as well. @Azzy

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Ehhhh for stronger stuff, yeah. Tier 5 is still pretty consistent for more mid-high tiers.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Ah close enough.

 

[Promestein]

Oh, nice.

 

[Promestein]

Anyways, looks good to go. I'm busy right now but once I'm free I'll start revisions.

 

[Jockey-1337]

Awesome

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I have edited the Nightbringer's profile.

Didn't really feel the need to add a key for the Void Dragon, because we are not even aware if there are Shards smaller than the Dragon of Mars, and as such it may already be more "complete" than the other remaining C'tan.

 

[Promestein]

Apologies for not doing it myself, I was tired and was unsure about what exactly you wanted changed.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Azzy, the codexes say that C'tan Shards can create Black Holes to swallow Star systems. That's 4-B.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Not a problem. It was a very simple fix (4-A stuff scaled to Transcendent Shards, basic Shards scaled to a High 4-C feat performed by a literally starving Shard of the Nightbringer).

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Matt

I'm fairly certain that was done by Transcendent Shards or complete C'tan during the War in Heaven (since they destroyed things just because it amused them), but it wouldn't surprise me if it was, since a basically half-dead shard of the Nightbringer is High 4-C.