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The Third Division Vice-Captain challenges the Purple Tear to a duel(Soshiro Hoshina(Kaiju No. 8) vs Iori(Project Moon) 2-3-0

Arkenis said:
I think he has better skill in combat. He has enhanced invisible slashes that Iori has no way of reacting to, he's got the higher ap, and his arsenal has more diversions and allows for more planning.
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In terms of skill I'd say the two are even since they're both genius combatants, but in terms of experience I'd say Iori has the edge since there seem to be a lot more swordsmen in the Project Moon verse compared to the Kaiju No.8 verse.

About the invisible slashes, are you sure those are two different techniques? Cause it seems more like Kafka got caught off guard the first time since he never saw that move before and was then able to see it coming the second time.

Soshiro has low compatibility with firearms so he's probably not gonna use them even if he has it, and I don't think he's ever used his grenades either. Would the The Defense Force's operation room count as outside help? Cause if they do then the drone probably can't be used here.
 
MysticBrawler said:
In terms of skill I'd say the two are even since they're both genius combatants, but in terms of experience I'd say Iori has the edge since there seem to be a lot more swordsmen in the Project Moon verse compared to the Kaiju No.8 verse.
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Didn’t mention sword skill here, I think overall he’s got better skill.

MysticBrawler said:
About the invisible slashes, are you sure those are two different techniques? Cause it seems more like Kafka got caught off guard the first time since he never saw that move before and was then able to see it coming the second time.
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MysticBrawler said:
Soshiro has low compatibility with firearms so he's probably not gonna use them even if he has it, and I don't think he's ever used his grenades either. Would the The Defense Force's operation room count as outside help? Cause if they do then the drone probably can't be used here.
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Does Soshiro normally fight other sword users in combat? I don't think we should compare what he does against kaijus vs how he'd face an unknown sword user.
 
Arkenis said:
Didn’t mention sword skill here, I think overall he’s got better skill.



Does Soshiro normally fight other sword users in combat? I don't think we should compare what he does against kaijus vs how he'd face an unknown sword user.
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Soshiro is rated as a combat genius and 99% of his Intelligence section only talks about his skills in swordsmanship/combat( with the only exceptions being him being able to deduce the location of No. 9's whereabouts, and him trouncing Gen Narumi accidentally in a game he had never played before.), while Iori is a genius in general due to having the capability to conceptualize a myriad of possibilities far too vast for a normal mind to handle, and is known for regularly having very long running plans in the background as well being likely the most skilled combatant in her franchise. So in combat they would be about even, but outside of combat Iori is definitely smarter.

I'm aware of what it saids in the profile, but the thing is when I checked the scan it seems more like Kafka got caught off guard the first time since he never saw that move before and was then able to see it coming the second time.

This is what it says it his intelligence section: "despite his lack of proficiency with firearms and has the strength of only a Vice-Captain, Soshiro is a prodigy who excels in the use of a blade and surpasses all members of the Hoshina Family, past and present, including himself,[8] who is referred to as the family's Ultimate Incarnation,[5] their father who was highly admired by a younger Soshiro as he could defeat multitude of Kaiju with his top notch sword skills and rise to the rank of platoon leader[1] and numerous past members of the Hoshina Family during the Meireki Era who did not have access to modern gun weaponry and thus focuses heavily on melee weapons to fight against even giant-sized Daikaiju-threats. Soshiro boasts the highest level of expertise in close quarters combat within the whole Defense Force.
Nothing in it mentions him making use of grenades and/or projectiles so I think it's in character for him to not use them.
 
MysticBrawler said:
Soshiro is rated as a combat genius and 99% of his Intelligence section only talks about his skills in swordsmanship/combat( with the only exceptions being him being able to deduce the location of No. 9's whereabouts, and him trouncing Gen Narumi accidentally in a game he had never played before.), while Iori is a genius in general due to having the capability to conceptualize a myriad of possibilities far too vast for a normal mind to handle, and is known for regularly having very long running plans in the background as well being likely the most skilled combatant in her franchise. So in combat they would be about even, but outside of combat Iori is definitely smarter.
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That doesn't sound like skill at all for Iori. That's planning.

MysticBrawler said:
I'm aware of what it saids in the profile, but the thing is when I checked the scan it seems more like Kafka got caught off guard the first time since he never saw that move before and was then able to see it coming the second time.
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Make a crt if you disagree.

MysticBrawler said:
This is what it says it his intelligence section: "despite his lack of proficiency with firearms and has the strength of only a Vice-Captain, Soshiro is a prodigy who excels in the use of a blade and surpasses all members of the Hoshina Family, past and present, including himself,[8] who is referred to as the family's Ultimate Incarnation,[5] their father who was highly admired by a younger Soshiro as he could defeat multitude of Kaiju with his top notch sword skills and rise to the rank of platoon leader[1] and numerous past members of the Hoshina Family during the Meireki Era who did not have access to modern gun weaponry and thus focuses heavily on melee weapons to fight against even giant-sized Daikaiju-threats. Soshiro boasts the highest level of expertise in close quarters combat within the whole Defense Force.
Nothing in it mentions him making use of grenades and/or projectiles so I think it's in character for him to not use them.
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Again this is all about fighting Kaijus, against another sword user I don't see why it would apply. I'm not even arguing him to be good in his use of guns or grenades, just that he may use them. Besides that, Iori has nothing noting her sword skills, she gets destroyed by him.
 
Arkenis said:
That doesn't sound like skill at all for Iori. That's planning.


Make a crt if you disagree.


Again this is all about fighting Kaijus, against another sword user I don't see why it would apply. I'm not even arguing him to be good in his use of guns or grenades, just that he may use them. Besides that, Iori has nothing noting her sword skills, she gets destroyed by him.
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It's planning that she can use in combat thanks to her having Precognition and Instinctive Action(which says this-"The user is free to utilize the mental effort that is normally spent on performing these actions on other things, allowing to put more focus in their conscious actions. More time to focus on long term strategies in a fight than how one would fight and react otherwise.")

I'm not interested in changing the profile, I'm just asking for clarification. Anyway even with that being the case Iori can still see it coming with her Precognition so I don't think she will have any trouble responding to it.

Ok then, so assuming that he does go for his gun and grenades, it still wouldn't do him any good thanks to Iori's resistances.
Iori has the following resistances- Sound Manipulation and Status Effect Inducement(So Soshiro's Stun grenades won't work), Heat/Temperature Manipulation, Durability Negation and Statistics Reduction(so his Freeze grenades/rounds and his Burst rounds won't work), Electricity Manipulation and Paralysis Inducement(so His Conductor rounds won't work). The only thing in his arsenal that would work against Iori is his Light Manipulation, but even that can be countered by Iori's Instinctive Action and Enhanced Senses.
Iori's profile not being as detailed as Soshiro's doesn't invalidate her own skill chain which I think would be something like this: Iori~Roland>Argalia> Myo>Kali/Gebura>Xiao>Liu Association~Shi Association>Zwei Association.
 
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MysticBrawler said:
It's planning that she can use in combat thanks to her having Precognition and Instinctive Action(which says this-"The user is free to utilize the mental effort that is normally spent on performing these actions on other things, allowing to put more focus in their conscious actions. More time to focus on long term strategies in a fight than how one would fight and react otherwise.")
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I'm confused, is this just a constant feeding of the future for her? Because the page says possibilities, that doesn't read as what is going to happen, only what could happen. And Soshiro has resistance to precog on a level where Soshiro's attacks will keep bypassing her precog. She'll have to keep coming up with new ways to attack while he can amp himself to blitz her while her speed amp Mirage Storm is done in bursts, Soshiro will be constantly faster than her, so I am seeing this as his win more than not.

MysticBrawler said:
Iori's profile not being as detailed as Soshiro's doesn't invalidate her own skill chain which I think would be something like this: Iori~Roland>Myo>~Xiao>Liu Association~Shi Association>Zwei Association.
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Her not being detailed isn't the issue, its the fact those she scales to also have little detail.

Myo: Has almost nothing explaining her combat, she then scales to Gebura who also has basically nothing explaining her combat.
Xiao: Is mostly noted to be a great leader and is superior to Myo who has nothing impressive.

Besides the skill, both have stamina limits and I would say Soshiro's edges out a bit more here, especially with his suit aiding him in healing.
 
Arkenis said:
I'm confused, is this just a constant feeding of the future for her? Because the page says possibilities, that doesn't read as what is going to happen, only what could happen. And Soshiro has resistance to precog on a level where Soshiro's attacks will keep bypassing her precog. She'll have to keep coming up with new ways to attack while he can amp himself to blitz her while her speed amp Mirage Storm is done in bursts, Soshiro will be constantly faster than her, so I am seeing this as his win more than not.


Her not being detailed isn't the issue, its the fact those she scales to also have little detail.

Myo: Has almost nothing explaining her combat, she then scales to Gebura who also has basically nothing explaining her combat.
Xiao: Is mostly noted to be a great leader and is superior to Myo who has nothing impressive.

Besides the skill, both have stamina limits and I would say Soshiro's edges out a bit more here, especially with his suit aiding him in healing.
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The simplest explanation is that Iori's Precognition allows her to see multiple outcomes from events, which become their own separate worlds that she can travel to with her abilities.

For Myo she has this:

Yasuda_144 said:
From Myo's profile

These battle royales typically consist of thousands of "individual" combatants, can last for months and the survivor effectively has the combination of all of their experiences.
the members of R Corp effectively benefit from a form of clone based machine learning, in which the combat instincts of an individual are cloned and pitted against one another to produce the most elite version of the individual possible, as the winner is put back with the rest of their memories. This process is done relatively often, and Myo has been with R Corp for at least ten years and has undergone these cycles throughout her tenure.
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The clones also subtly differ from one another resulting in significant variance in tactics and combat styles, so it's not like the R Corp soldiers are effectively fighting the exact same foe thousands of times.
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Heres the background for the Zwei association: "The Zwei Association offers itself as the "shield" of the civilian populace, providing protection to neighborhoods and families from the threats of the City, effectively acting as police or bodyguards. The Zwei does not only conduct defensive missions, either, as they also undertake investigations to prevent future incidents and even include Major Crimes Units amongst their divisions. However, as an Association, they remain primarily money-motivated, and will only extend their services to those who are willing and able to pay for it.
Nevertheless, the Zwei are much more defensive in nature than other Associations or Offices, as their focus is mainly on ensuring their clients' safety rather than winning the fights thrown against them. As a result, they tend to avoid killing when it is unnecessary."

Heres the background for the Shi Association: "The Shi Association handles all requests made involving stealth killings. Because of this, the Shi's style of operation involves high efficiency, swift decision-making, precision, and adaptability in order to make use of the small windows of opportunity around their targets. This also means that Shi Fixers work best in closed spaces and in smaller groups rather than in large, pitched battles."

And this id the background for the Liu Association: "While the speciality of the Liu Association as a whole is "all-out war," the specific tactics of the path to victory depend on the Director of each Section of the Liu. Lowell, Director of Liu South Section 2, is a thoughtful leader who always errs on the side of caution, even if it causes unnecessary inaction. His Section is filled with Fixers who act rationally and carefully, which complements his style.[1] Section 2 balances the passionate warfare of the Liu with assessment and tactical caution.[2] Meanwhile, the approach taken by Xiao, Director of South Section 1, is to push forwards as long as an opportunity exists, using elaborate strategies and deceptions[3] to turn the tides of battle."

 
MysticBrawler said:
The simplest explanation is that Iori's Precognition allows her to see multiple outcomes from events, which become their own separate worlds that she can travel to with her abilities.

For Myo she has this:
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This sounds like the Almighty. Her weakness says she doesn't do this anyway though so how's this relevant?

Weaknesses: Iori's power has some sort of ambiguous cost associated with it. She doesn't time travel, due to not wanting to run the risk of causing a paradox.
 
Arkenis said:
This sounds like the Almighty. Her weakness says she doesn't do this anyway though so how's this relevant?

Weaknesses: Iori's power has some sort of ambiguous cost associated with it. She doesn't time travel, due to not wanting to run the risk of causing a paradox.
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True, but I wasn't saying that she would be using her Time/Dimensional Travel. My point was that the possibilities that she can see refer to the different ways that an event can unfold, and later when an outcome is decided those possibilities will continue to exist as alternate timelines. So Soshiro can't really bypass her precognition, since his resistance is to Information Analysis and Analytical Prediction not Precognition(Divination)
 
Is it me, or Iori can literally see many possible futures and is also a genius, whereas Soshiro merely gets to be a combat genius?
I'm betting on the lady who's a genius + farseer.

Don't get me wrong, he ain't no slouch, but Iori is just more experienced. Like, possibly near-infinitely more experienced. And smarter in areas outside of combat. And wiser. I'm also betting on her dimensional movement and sheer variety of combat skills (the most versatile fighter in all of Ruina, surpassing the multi weapons master Roland) being enough to deal with Soshiro's versatility and hax.

In Leviathan, we see an opponent who, by seeing into different worlds, could counter Vergilius by experiencing death by his hands a hundred times before Vergilius walks a single step forward. Iori is this, but also she's trouncing on Vergilius — another Color — on her combat skills alone.
 
It's unfortunate that there aren't more Kaiju No.8 supporters saying something here, cause I don't think this can progress without their input.
 
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