The Jevil Upgrade We All Missed (Deltarune Chapter 2)

[ArachDusa]

In Chapter 2 of Deltarune, Spamton G. Spamton says that he will soon surpass the "clown around town" (referring to Jevil) by obtaining his NEO form. This strongly indicates that Jevil is more powerful than "base" Spamton before he gained his NEO form, and therefore 9-A (which I argue is consistent with the fact that Jevil could make his room spin during his boss fight and caused it to vanish after being defeated). I've seen this dialogue referenced before in threads claiming that the three Delta Warriors in Chapter 1 should scale to their Chapter 2 selves, but this is where I differ with them: The Delta Warriors in Chapter 1 are not as strong as Jevil. Putting aside how difficult the boss fight with Jevil is, his in-game dialogue makes it apparent that Jevil never takes the fight seriously and whether you defeat him using violence or the PACIFY spell, he isn't "defeated" as much as he willingly forfeits the fight. Therefore, I don't think Jevil being 9-A justifies the Delta Warriors being on that level in Chapter 1. The only character I can see possibly scaling to Jevil's full power is the King, since he was able to subdue Jevil and imprison him in the past, and was implied to have defeated and be stronger than the three former Kings who fought Jevil alongside him, so in my opinion this should at least warrant listing him as "At least 9-B, possibly 9-A" on his profile. Wait, does that mean the Delta Warriors should still be possibly 9-A in Chapter 1 since they defeated King? Again, I don't think they should, since like Jevil, the King implied he was holding back when he fought them and his first "defeat" turned out to be a bluff to get them to heal him and lower their guard, after which he overpowered all three protagonists and could only be defeated with a sneak attack from Lancer and either Ralsei Pacifying him while he's off-guard or his entire army (including the Pippins, who are never fought in-game) swarming him all at once. So Jevil and the King were both significantly above the protagonists until Chapter 1 and should therefore be the only characters who scale to base Spamton's 9-A ranking.
PS: As of Chapter 2 the heroes definitely do scale to Jevil, since Spamton NEO did surpass Jevil and they were able to defeat him, and unlike Jevil or the King, Spamton was actively trying to kill Kris and take their soul for the duration of the fight, and since that's the case there is no reason to believe he was holding back.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

This has been discussed numerous times in other Deltarune threads. We've always ended up deciding against Jevil being upgraded, because;

A.) Spamton never says he has surpasses Jevil in power. He could be talking about fame, or being "more free" than Jevil is. The quote isn't specific enough to warrant scaling base Spamton to Jevil.

B.) Jevil being 9-A creates multiple small scaling issues. The Endgame Chapter 1 character scale to Jevil, the calc is based on one of Jevil's attacks, and scaling them all to Chapter 2 content creates backspacing.

I'd also disagree in saying that Jevil was casual during his fight. He can still kill the party, and he's defeated by tiring him out, not just by him giving up.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Actually, I guess that final chaos scale wasn't right at all.

That giant knife should have create the most massive explosion, and possibly it should have been multiplied a lot of times.

But, it actually shouldn't scale to anyone because it never exploded and I can see why.

If you can oneshot someone, but you REALLY want to play, why you need to end fun that quickly?

 

[Deleted member 16409]

In Chapter 2 of Deltarune, Spamton G. Spamton says that he will soon surpass the "clown around town" (referring to Jevil) by obtaining his NEO form. This strongly indicates that Jevil is more powerful than "base" Spamton before he gained his NEO form, and therefore 9-A (which I argue is consistent with the fact that Jevil could make his room spin during his boss fight and caused it to vanish after being defeated). I've seen this dialogue referenced before in threads claiming that the three Delta Warriors in Chapter 1 should scale to their Chapter 2 selves, but this is where I differ with them: The Delta Warriors in Chapter 1 are not as strong as Jevil. Putting aside how difficult the boss fight with Jevil is, his in-game dialogue makes it apparent that Jevil never takes the fight seriously and whether you defeat him using violence or the PACIFY spell, he isn't "defeated" as much as he willingly forfeits the fight. Therefore, I don't think Jevil being 9-A justifies the Delta Warriors being on that level in Chapter 1. The only character I can see possibly scaling to Jevil's full power is the King, since he was able to subdue Jevil and imprison him in the past, and was implied to have defeated and be stronger than the three former Kings who fought Jevil alongside him, so in my opinion this should at least warrant listing him as "At least 9-B, possibly 9-A" on his profile. Wait, does that mean the Delta Warriors should still be possibly 9-A in Chapter 1 since they defeated King? Again, I don't think they should, since like Jevil, the King implied he was holding back when he fought them and his first "defeat" turned out to be a bluff to get them to heal him and lower their guard, after which he overpowered all three protagonists and could only be defeated with a sneak attack from Lancer and either Ralsei Pacifying him while he's off-guard or his entire army (including the Pippins, who are never fought in-game) swarming him all at once. So Jevil and the King were both significantly above the protagonists until Chapter 1 and should therefore be the only characters who scale to base Spamton's 9-A ranking.
PS: As of Chapter 2 the heroes definitely do scale to Jevil, since Spamton NEO did surpass Jevil and they were able to defeat him, and unlike Jevil or the King, Spamton was actively trying to kill Kris and take their soul for the duration of the fight, and since that's the case there is no reason to believe he was holding back.

Actually there's a lot of issues.

In texts it told that Jevil pulled out all the stops, like he's finally at all.

And Kings never defeated Jevil, Seam did and it caused a lot of trouble like really did.

But even through, for some reason Jevil doesn't turn in stone...

 

[Deleted member 16409]

OK GUYS
NEW INFORMATION DROPPED
SPAMTON INDEED DID FIGHT JEVIL PREVIOUSLY AND NEVER WON

 

[ShockingPsychic]

I don't think it's implied to be a physical battle.