Astral_Trinity439
He/Him- 839
- 395
Introduction
Hello everyone, hope ya'll are doing good. This is the continuation to the previously accepted thread, Part 2 to be exact. This thread will be focusing on abilities for True Dragons, and on a minor side, an ability for Demons.As always, please refrain from any toxic behavior and unnecessarily derailing the thread.
Credits to @Meli_Tempest, @Digital_Franz , and many others that do not have a discord account, for helping with and being a part of the project!
Note : No attempt should be made to upgrade the Cosmology in this thread, and neither should such a discussion be brought up. Do that in the General Discussion thread only!
Table of Contents
Immortality Type 9 and Omnipresence for True DragonsTo start with, lets introduce the Avatar-True Form relation for True Dragons :
- A True Dragon's Physical Body is merely a manifested form they take in response to the Religious Desire of People[1]. Note that Veldora was in his Dragon form while saying this[2], made completely of Magic Essence[2], stated again[1]. That is, the Avatar Body here includes both his Dragon Form, and the Human Form he took later on.
- As for their True Self, that is their Self as Holy Spirits, Power that encompasses The Void[3]. In essence, True Dragons do not really need a Core/Nucleic Heart[1], the Core they have is just made of Magic Essence[1]. The Ego is the Consciousness, beyond the Physical Body, the layers of the Soul, and even the Core, they can exist as a Consciousness alone and form a Body with Magic Essence[1], same with a Core[1], but when their Consciousness goes out and dissipates, their Manifested Form is destroyed and a new Manifestation takes birth somewhere in the World with a different personality[1], meanwhile their True Self, which does not need a Core, remains as a Perfect and Individual, Singular Entity[1][2].
- Note that the Kanji used for their True Self is "個にして完全なる者", which also translates to terms like "The Individual and Perfect One"[4], "Individual and Indivisible"[4], "The one who is Whole and Complete"[4], "The Perfect In One"[4], "The individual and the All-Inclusive"[4], among[4] all[4] the[4] many[4] similar[4] terms[4]. Additionally, their True Form, that is, their Holy Spirit Self, is simply Power that encompasses[3] the Void that existed before everything, a Blank Canvas.
- Holy Spirits serve the Root of the World, and even the Great Spirits only serve as something that represent the Power of Holy Spirits, where Great Spirits represent the Attributes of Reality itself[5].
- Additionally, True Dragons are called the Highest Tier Holy Demonic Spirits, the translator confirms this further that the Kanji literally means being both the opposite attributes at the same time[1]. Holy and Demonic attributes in question, encompass the whole World, the Holy/light/Yang fills the World and is covered by Darkness/Ying/Demonic[2]. Even more so, the fact that even Great Spirits are called Great, from which other normal Tier Spirits are derived, yet True Dragons are called the Highest, speaks for itself. You cannot be the Highest in something with there being another thing Higher then you in that same something.
To conclude, a True Dragon's form in the World is merely a manifestation of their True Form, which exists as an All-Inclusive Entity encompassing the Void, the latter being a Blank Canvas that lacks Space and Time and contains the World. Reminder, that this would also give their True Form Avatar Creation. Additionally, a new Key would be needed for their Holy Spirit self.
Counter Arguments :
- We cant just take a single phrase, that might be flowery language, as literal!
- Regarding the 5th point, we cannot take the translator's note as serious, given he has mistranslated many things before.
- Taking the fact that they are called Holy Demonic and being the combination of both attributes as them encompassing both of them at the same time in the All-Encompassing, or Monadic in the sense that they encompass everything, has too less context and shouldn't be taken as literal!
Conceptual Existence for True Dragons
To start with, lets first define Conceptual Nature in TenSura :
- Angels and Demons are Conceptual Existences made of Pure Energy/Magic Essence[1].
- Great Spirits, who they split off from, are also made of Magic Essence[2].
- Veldora governs Storm, is the Incarnation of Storm, Destruction, Corrosion, and Doom[3][4][5], meanwhile Velgrynd and Velzard will be Heat and Frost, Acceleration and Deceleration/Fixation, contradictory natures that balances each other[6][7][8].
- True Dragons like Veldanava existed before the World, and Veldora was even unaffected by the destruction of the Space-Time[9]. Also notice how at the End of Space and Time where there is only the Void left, a Blank Canvas[10], but Rimuru never mentioned True Dragons like Velzard or Velgrynd[10]. Although one might say that Ciel protected Veldora inside Imaginary Space and thus he would have died normally[10], note that this was his Avatar Body, not his True Form. Their True Form as Holy Spirits is just Power that encompasses the Void[2], and what is left at the End of Space and Time is The Void to begin with.
- Holy Spirits serve the Root of the World, and even the Great Spirits only serve as something that represent the Power of Holy Spirits, where Great Spirits represent the Attributes of Reality itself[11].
- Holy Spirits are simply Power that encompasses The Void[2], said Void existed before the creation of the World, while Veldanava merely inserted the World and Great Spirits inside it.
To conclude, their Avatar Self is Abstract Existence Type 1, Concept Type 2, Possibly Type 1, on a Universal+ Scale, meanwhile their True Self is Greater Abstract Existence Type 1, Concept Type 1 on the whole cosmology, currently Low Multiversal in scale.
Counter Arguments :
- Why are we assuming that they are Conceptual in nature to begin with when there is no direct statement that they are Conceptual?
- Why is their Avatar Self assumed to be a Universal Concept?
- Why a possibly Type 1 for their Avatar Form?
- Why is there a Greater AE for their True Form?
Nonexistence Physiology for Demons
This one is quite simple, at least compared to the above :
- Demons are Pure Conceptual Existences made of a Pure Energy body and completely lack a Physical Form[1].
- However, residing in the Underworld, they are as akin to Crystallized Darkness in Saturated Darkness, like Crystallized Sugar in Sugar Water[2].
- The Darkness of Hell[3] in question is Nonexistence[4].
- To add, Demons, as implied by the fact that they only come into contact with Information after being summoned, also lack a Soul, which are made of Information, Information being something that defines the World[2], Information is also Existence[5], but Skills which are also made of Information[6][7][8] are Conceptual in nature[9].
Since this one is straight to the point, I did not add any counter argument points. But in case repeated arguments are brought again and again, I might add them in the future.
Staff Votes
Agree :Disagree :
Neutral :
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks for reading, folks!
Note that these changes wont be added to their profiles until all the WN Revisions are done, likely 4 more revisions after this!
Last edited: