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Why do people generally hate on TnJ? I mean, Naruto as a whole is primarily a series based on Moral Conflicts and TnJ has been shitty only on 2-3 occasions. Otherwise, it perfectly fits into the story.
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Talk No Jutsu
- Thread starter LlamaGod1411
- Start date
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I see. Just wanted to know why.
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Because it is a memeworthy, unsatisifying, cringeworthy, lazy way to resolve issues with antagonists. It was also the deathrattle, as it signalled the end of when Naruto was good in my, and many others opinion. The Pein fight. Where Naruto defeated him with a book.
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^ No, that was a perfect ending to the Pain fight.
How was that a bad one? I've seen many people say it, I've refuted many people about it.
The only bad TnJ are hopeless moments like the one against Obito.
How was that a bad one? I've seen many people say it, I've refuted many people about it.
The only bad TnJ are hopeless moments like the one against Obito.
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Sometimes a nice pacifistic ending where you just talk the bad guy out of things is the best ending for a show
Naruto is not one of those shows
Naruto is not one of those shows
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^ Naruto is one of those shows, atleast until the Pain Arc.
Most of the people he TnJ'ed were not even villains, primarily. Almost all the people he TnJ'ed were actually pseudo Light Yagami-type characters. They were inherently good people, but with a terrible mind-set.
Literally Naruto is more about people's morals and their actions, instead of primarily being about fights like most Shonen Series's. Most villains are only villains due to something happening to them during their life, instead of being a villain just for the sake of being a villain.
Hell, one of the most villainous characters in Naruto is due to things that happened to him during his life-time. I mention "villainous" because he isn't redeemable.
Most of the people he TnJ'ed were not even villains, primarily. Almost all the people he TnJ'ed were actually pseudo Light Yagami-type characters. They were inherently good people, but with a terrible mind-set.
Literally Naruto is more about people's morals and their actions, instead of primarily being about fights like most Shonen Series's. Most villains are only villains due to something happening to them during their life, instead of being a villain just for the sake of being a villain.
Hell, one of the most villainous characters in Naruto is due to things that happened to him during his life-time. I mention "villainous" because he isn't redeemable.
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Well you can think that, but I think it was super cringey and lame. People have different opinions so no surprise. I'm just telling you why I don't like it. I'd imagine it's a similiar story with others annoyance with it.
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Light yagami ... a good person.
Ok
In all seriousness though, I'm of the "most people's" mindset on this. I thought that talking pain out of it worked well enough as they were both taught by the same mentor, who wrote a book that could apply to either of them, and Nagato was just really misinformed.
Everyone after that though, it just got silly. Obito was this mastermind who'd been in the shadows for decades arranging the whole fourth ninja war, releasing the nine-tails on Konoha and killing hundreds, and basically just continuously saying he'd made his choice and this was his path and stuff. And then comes Naruto, and suddenly Obito is willing to sacrifice his life for the ninja world. Same with Sasuke, who'd been wanting to kill Naruto for ages, wanting to destroy Konoha, etc then suddenly was like, no actually I don't. It was just ridiculous
Ok
In all seriousness though, I'm of the "most people's" mindset on this. I thought that talking pain out of it worked well enough as they were both taught by the same mentor, who wrote a book that could apply to either of them, and Nagato was just really misinformed.
Everyone after that though, it just got silly. Obito was this mastermind who'd been in the shadows for decades arranging the whole fourth ninja war, releasing the nine-tails on Konoha and killing hundreds, and basically just continuously saying he'd made his choice and this was his path and stuff. And then comes Naruto, and suddenly Obito is willing to sacrifice his life for the ninja world. Same with Sasuke, who'd been wanting to kill Naruto for ages, wanting to destroy Konoha, etc then suddenly was like, no actually I don't. It was just ridiculous
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@Aizen
Yea, but I'd like to know why exactly you think it was Cringey and Lame.
Nagato and Naruto both had very similar backgrounds. Both were students of the same teacher. Both respected said teacher highly. Both wanted Peace for the world, albeit one wanted it through violence, while the other, through peace.
Don't get me wrong, the TnJ on Obito was pathetic, but Nagato actually redeemed himself by bringing everyone back.
@Monarch
Light is obviously a good person, Lol. He is pretty much literally the same as L. It was clearly shown when Light had lost his memories about the Death Note, he was hell bent on catching "Kira", again, just like L. It is just that power corrupts.
Not sure on which side you are about the entire Nagato thing.
Obito manipulating Nagato and creating the Akatsuki was pretty fine. The TnJ is the one that sucked.
Sasuke's, it would be debatable. He has points on both sides. While on one side, Itachi wanted him to stay Loyal to his village, on the other side, he had been traumatized enough by a lot of people like Itachi, Obito, Orochimaru etc.
I quite agree to Sasuke's ideals. Though I wish the final battle was a bit longer to show exposure as to how Sasuke changed his ideals.
As I said, even Sasuke's ideals, Like Nagato's were actually for the betterment of the Shinobi world and had me supporting him.
Yea, but I'd like to know why exactly you think it was Cringey and Lame.
Nagato and Naruto both had very similar backgrounds. Both were students of the same teacher. Both respected said teacher highly. Both wanted Peace for the world, albeit one wanted it through violence, while the other, through peace.
Don't get me wrong, the TnJ on Obito was pathetic, but Nagato actually redeemed himself by bringing everyone back.
@Monarch
Light is obviously a good person, Lol. He is pretty much literally the same as L. It was clearly shown when Light had lost his memories about the Death Note, he was hell bent on catching "Kira", again, just like L. It is just that power corrupts.
Not sure on which side you are about the entire Nagato thing.
Obito manipulating Nagato and creating the Akatsuki was pretty fine. The TnJ is the one that sucked.
Sasuke's, it would be debatable. He has points on both sides. While on one side, Itachi wanted him to stay Loyal to his village, on the other side, he had been traumatized enough by a lot of people like Itachi, Obito, Orochimaru etc.
I quite agree to Sasuke's ideals. Though I wish the final battle was a bit longer to show exposure as to how Sasuke changed his ideals.
As I said, even Sasuke's ideals, Like Nagato's were actually for the betterment of the Shinobi world and had me supporting him.
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@Llama probably because I feel like it was a super unrealistic response to the scenario he was in. Like Obitos but not as bad. Village destroyed, his sensei killed and hinata killed before his eyes (as far as he was aware) and he was as cool as a cucumber
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THANK YOU.LordAizenSama said:
I couldn't have described it better
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From the start it's actually a hard thing to pull off believably. Plus Naruto in the end kind of devolved into ranting at Obito until it work, so it hilariously seems Obito only gave up so that Naruto would shut up. Similarly, Pein was also easily convinced to give up. I feel that's the problem, we went from things like Naruto's words breaking Zabuza's facade and forcing him to admit he cared about Haku; IMO a really good scene, to the memetic "coolest guy" scene.
Just as an example, Fiamma of the Right and Touma from Toaru pulled off the "big bad who causes a war as an 'ends justify the means' extremist" and "hero who convinces him his ways are wrong" much more effectively, and without a sad backstory.
Just as an example, Fiamma of the Right and Touma from Toaru pulled off the "big bad who causes a war as an 'ends justify the means' extremist" and "hero who convinces him his ways are wrong" much more effectively, and without a sad backstory.
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@Aizen, Again, iirc, Naruto was prepared to kill Nagato. The only thing he wanted was to know why exactly Nagato did it, being Jiraiya's student. Naruto had already thoroughly beaten Nagato, by beating the Paths of pain and resisting his Chakra Rod control.
Nagato had no chance. He'd die even if he had tried to attack Naruto, he'd have died even if he had done nothing.
Their goals were pretty much to end the cycle of haterd and they were trained by the same teacher who they adored.
People stating that the way he TnJ'ed Nagato was too easy, no, not really. He had a hard fought battle against Pain, in which he almost released the Nine Tails, saw the destruction of his home, saw Hinata die and confess her love towards him. He would've killed Nagato eitherways. It is just that he wanted to know why a Student Of Jiraiya would do such a thing. Everyone acts as if the only thing that happened in that Arc was Naruto talking to Nagato, but it was much more than that, it was a clasg if morals.
And people, stop bringing up the war TnJ lol. Anyone with half a brain would admit how stupid it was.
Nagato had no chance. He'd die even if he had tried to attack Naruto, he'd have died even if he had done nothing.
Their goals were pretty much to end the cycle of haterd and they were trained by the same teacher who they adored.
People stating that the way he TnJ'ed Nagato was too easy, no, not really. He had a hard fought battle against Pain, in which he almost released the Nine Tails, saw the destruction of his home, saw Hinata die and confess her love towards him. He would've killed Nagato eitherways. It is just that he wanted to know why a Student Of Jiraiya would do such a thing. Everyone acts as if the only thing that happened in that Arc was Naruto talking to Nagato, but it was much more than that, it was a clasg if morals.
And people, stop bringing up the war TnJ lol. Anyone with half a brain would admit how stupid it was.
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The only time I remember feeling uncomfortable during a TnJ scene was the Juubito Saga. And well, I admit I cringed when Naruto called Obito the coolest guy. It's one of the few moments I've felt really annoyed with Naruto.
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^ Ikr.
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I have the same feelings as @Burning Full Fingers here. I generally have not had any issues with Talk no Jutsu except that one thing.
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It's just really potent Mind Manipulation bordering on Reality Warping.
Just joking...
Just joking...
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Aren't they just speaking through their hearts or something? I recall them being able to do so by fist bumping and also through chakra. So wouldn't that be like telepathy plus genjutsu?
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What? Seriously?
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Sasuke said all high level ninja can do that so every jonin and their fathers should have Telepathy.
Wait, are you joking or...?
Wait, are you joking or...?
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@Soldier The link I posted was just for a laugh, Lol.
@Burning, what?
@Burning, what?
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That stuff was funny as hell.
@LlamaGod
?
@LlamaGod
?
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Jesus Christ. Lmao!
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@Soldier Ah lol. I'm not sure about the source.
@Burning Ikr.
@Burning Ikr.
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So different people in the Narutoverse have TnJ. Just not as potent as Naruto's. I wonder who the progenitor was.
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Sasuke's was shown in Sasuke Shinden where he convinced Chino.
Iirc, Minato said that Naruto's came from Kushina.
Iirc, Minato said that Naruto's came from Kushina.
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I wonder how potent Kushina's would have been. It would mean TnJ can be traced to the Uzumaki Clan. Hmm, it must have originated from the Ōtsutsuki.
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Lol.
I'm imagining Hagoromo trying to TnJ Kaguya, then Indra.
I'm imagining Hagoromo trying to TnJ Kaguya, then Indra.
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Well, going by canon, Hagoromo's TnJ failed. I'm pretty sure he must have attempted it at some point. As for Indra, Asura would be better suited for that. Most of his companions probably succumbed to TnJ. Lol.
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