- 9
- 0
TIER
SM=Space Marine
These guys deserve at least High 8-C.To begin this i'll link these 2 calcs:
Space Marines survive city-busting energy
Space Marines tank an explosion large enough to be seen from space
(both of those were priority 1->scales to everyone->basic SM used to scale in WH40K->these are basic SM)
Iron Warrior survives artillery barrage and being burried under hundreds of tonnes of rubble
"In a heartbeat that vision changed from a place of wonder to a place of death. The first enemy artillery shells screamed down and exploded above the plateau in a storm of deafening horror. Air-bursting warheads flensed the ground with a hellstorm of red-hot steel fragments; some no larger than a fingernail, others like scything axe-heads, and the carnage Honsou saw a man shredded to the bone, his skeleton pulped to a rubbery mass a second later by the pounding shockwave of detonation. A group of near-naked slaves with heavy picks slung over their shoulders vanished in a fiery mass of swirling fragments, their remains no longer recognisable as human. Hundreds died in the first instants of the barrage, and a hundred more in the rippling firestorm that followed. Honsou heard their screams, but paid them no mind.
Something struck the side of Honsou's helmet like the thunder hammer of a Dreadnought and he was sent flying. A body flashed past him, and he braced for impact as the clashing, intersecting waves of force flung him about like a leaf in a storm. He hit the ground hard and skidded across the cratered rubble of the plateau. After a quick check to make sure he still had all his limbs, Honsou pushed himself to his knees with his entrenching tool. The sky rippled with orange and red streamers of arcing shells and fiery detonations, but it felt distant and somehow unreal. The smell of cooking meat came to him, and Honsou looked down to see a long shard of shell casing jutting from the centre of his breastplate. The metal sizzled, and it was still possible to make out a white eagle and read the stencilled lettering on its side. He grunted and pulled the fragment from his body. Its tip was sharpened to a dagger point, the last ten centimetres coated in blood. 'You don't get me that easy,' he snarled, standing calmly in the midst of the barrage."Pg.36 H&B 17
"He closed his eyes and exhaled as the shell struck. The high-explosive shell slashed down and struck the centre of the trench, as though a mathematician had plotted its trajectory. Confined by the high walls, the blast roared out along the trench, incinerating those closest to its point of impact, and shredding those beyond in tightly packed storms of tumbling metal. The shockwave blew men out of their overalls, leaving them naked and twisted into grotesque knots of liquefied bone and shattered limbs.
Honsou was plucked from the trench and hurled into the air. Dozens of red icons flashed to life on his visor as the reflecting blast waves pulled his body in a hundred different directions. Seams split, plates cracked and pressurised coils beneath his breastplate ruptured, venting corrosive gases and precious oxygen. He lost all perception of spatial awareness, and only knew which way was down when he slammed into a line of prefabricated, mesh-wrapped blocks of wall being driven forwards by the second wave of diggers.
Gathered up in the tumbling debris before the blocks, Honsou had no control over his movement. His body was still paralysed by the numbing force of the explosion, and he roared in frustration as he was pushed back towards the trench line. Earth and rock gathered around him, pinning his arms in place, but every nerve in his body was still reverberating in the aftermath of the blast, and he couldn't move.
The yawning black line approached, and Honsou knew there was nothing he could do to prevent his being buried in the trench. A fitting end to his short-lived reign as Warsmith or a bitter irony to be buried in the foundations of a siegework? He kept struggling, though there was nothing he could do to prevent being buried alive. To the last breath he would fight, even as hundreds of tonnes of rubble crushed him to death in the depths of an invaded world. The harsh rumble of the digger's engine changed pitch, changing from the throaty roar of a corpulent dragon to a squealing wail of a denied hedonist. Honsou teetered on the brink of the abyss, a rain of pebbles, soil and permacrete drooling into the trench in front of him. He let out the breath he hadn't realised he was holding and felt sensation return to his limbs. A hand reached out to him. He grabbed it unquestioningly and hauled himself upright, steadying himself with his entrenching tool."Pgs.38-39 H&B 17
Next we have a SM surviving a battle cannon shell:
"But the rest of his retort was swallowed in a thunderous explosion as the tank outside fired its battle cannon into the derelict building. The blast pulverised a ten-metre-wide section of the building's front entrance, showering the Astartes in a hail of jagged stone and metal."Pg.202 FA
"Nemiel watched the Astartes race up to the street corner and put their backs to a burnt-out storefront, their bolters held across their chests. One of the two warriors ― Brother Cortus, Nemiel thought ― slid to the end of the wall and peered around the corner.
Nemiel heard the battle cannon fire and watched the corner of the building Coitus was standing at disintegrate in the space of a single heartbeat. The two Astartes disappeared in a blizzard of pulverised stone and fragments of structural steel. A billowing cloud of dust and smoke enveloped the intersection and rolled down the street towards the rest of the squad.
The squad took cover on reflex, crouching behind rubble piles or pressing close to a building wall. Nemiel checked his helmet display and saw the status icon for Brother Cortus flash from green to amber. He was wounded, perhaps seriously, but still functional."Pg.188 FA
Space Marine durability is compared to a MBT
"With no home world, the Dragons had no infrastructure to produce and properly maintain vehicles. Those they had were for ultimate measures. But what did they need with vehicles when each Space Marine was a main battle tank with legs? Vritras's spearhead began its destruction of the enemy with fire from the rear. The Devastators of Squad Lanx unleashed their heavy bolters. Rounds with the destructive punch of artillery shells tore the cultists apart."Death of Antagonis
Space Marine survives being burried under hundreds,maybe thousands of tonnes of rock (it took him 2-7 days to dig his way out)
Space Marine survives T'au pulse rifles (comparable to plasma weapons)
"The tau warriors brought their own long-barrelled rifles to bear on Brother Qaja. Before the Space Marine could fire, a dozen blue energy bolts lanced towards him as the alien soldiers opened fire through what was clearly a one-way energy shield that allowed the tau to fire from behind its protection.
Brother Qaja was caught in the storm, the blue bolts slamming into his power armour and vaporising large chunks of ceramite and the flesh beneath.
Sarik bellowed a wordless curse at the sight of his closest battle-brother gunned down before him. The two warriors had shared such glories and such tragedies that a wound to one was a wound to the other. Rage and pain welled up inside Sarik and reason threatened to flee his mind entirely, so strong was the urge to avenge his fallen brother."
"But Sarik's curse turned into a howl of joy as he saw that his battle-brother was far from dead. Dragging himself up onto one knee, his face a mask of grim determination, Qaja levelled his cannon at the turret."Savage Scars
These guys also laugh at frag grenades and flamethrowers that can melt bones, resist heavy bolter and autocannon shots and survive being hit and then ran over with the tracks by a land raider(can provide quotes if you want)
My final 2 arguments for at least High 8-C are:
1)Primaris have been killed by Chaos Space Marines (comparable to normal marines)
2)According to the Deathwatch RPG which is the source for space marine's strength(also depends on dice rolls) so it's a valid source space marines can survive a plasma gun shot which makes sense when we take this calc of a plasma pistol into consideration which coincidentally is also High 8-C and is weaker than a plasma gun (Plasma Pistol Calc)
Image proof of what I'm about to say
A space marine has at least 19 wounds->a SM has at least 6 Toughness Bonus or TB(starting toughness min 3 and unnatural toughness means 6)->power armor has 10 armor to the body section->astartes plasma gun(stronger than normal plasma guns) can do a max of 19 damage and ignores 8 armor points->2 damage is reduced by the 2 remaining armor with 17 damage remaining->from 17 damage we subtract the 6 TB which gives us 11 damage->19-11=8 wounds->our marine has 8 remaining wounds and survives the max damage shot.(even a head shot woud leave us with 6 remaining wounds)
STRENGTH
Remember that backlift(strongest possible lifting move) is used for the composite human and a deadlift is one of the justifications for Master Chief's strength
Again image proof for what I'm about to say
Method 1:Deathwatch RPG tells us that a 2.1m SM weighs 500-1,000 kg in armor.SM power armor weighs 180kg which gives us a range of 320-820kg but SM are 7 ft 6 in (height on their profile) in or 2.29m, using the square cube law for volume we get a new range of 416-1,066kg with an average of 740 (mid-end weight).
The world record for bench press and dead lift are both 500kg and the people perforimg these weigh 164kg and respectively 145kg so we know humans are capable of benching and deadlifting at least 3 times their bodyweight
A 740kg SM would have aprox 2,220kg deadlift and bench now we use the unnatural strength bonus which doubles their strength so that gives us 4,440kg deadlift and bench.Now we use the 20% bonus from the power armor and we get aprox 5,320kg deadlift and bench->CLASS 10 for mid-end(average) SM
Proof of below (1,000kg, 2,700kg and 5,400 kg taken from profile)
Method 2:The weakest space marine can carry 1,000 kg withou being encumbered (like comfortably carrying a backpack) and 2,700 kg for 6 hours without fatigue (remember from above the min toughness bonus of a SM is 6) this means even if this is a weight he can carry for 6h we'll use a boulder lift and a clean and jerk world record (252 and 266 kg) this means the weakest SM is 10 times stronger than the strongest humans alive which gives us 5,000 kg bench and deadlift without the armor bonus and aprox 6,000 with it ->CLASS 10 again for the weakest SM
Also the SM pushes 5,400kg which is in class 10 (again remember backlift is used for composite human and deadlift for Master Chief)
In conclusion the Space Marine should be at least Tier High 8-C and Class 10 Lifting Strength
SM=Space Marine
These guys deserve at least High 8-C.To begin this i'll link these 2 calcs:
Space Marines survive city-busting energy
Space Marines tank an explosion large enough to be seen from space
(both of those were priority 1->scales to everyone->basic SM used to scale in WH40K->these are basic SM)
Iron Warrior survives artillery barrage and being burried under hundreds of tonnes of rubble
"In a heartbeat that vision changed from a place of wonder to a place of death. The first enemy artillery shells screamed down and exploded above the plateau in a storm of deafening horror. Air-bursting warheads flensed the ground with a hellstorm of red-hot steel fragments; some no larger than a fingernail, others like scything axe-heads, and the carnage Honsou saw a man shredded to the bone, his skeleton pulped to a rubbery mass a second later by the pounding shockwave of detonation. A group of near-naked slaves with heavy picks slung over their shoulders vanished in a fiery mass of swirling fragments, their remains no longer recognisable as human. Hundreds died in the first instants of the barrage, and a hundred more in the rippling firestorm that followed. Honsou heard their screams, but paid them no mind.
Something struck the side of Honsou's helmet like the thunder hammer of a Dreadnought and he was sent flying. A body flashed past him, and he braced for impact as the clashing, intersecting waves of force flung him about like a leaf in a storm. He hit the ground hard and skidded across the cratered rubble of the plateau. After a quick check to make sure he still had all his limbs, Honsou pushed himself to his knees with his entrenching tool. The sky rippled with orange and red streamers of arcing shells and fiery detonations, but it felt distant and somehow unreal. The smell of cooking meat came to him, and Honsou looked down to see a long shard of shell casing jutting from the centre of his breastplate. The metal sizzled, and it was still possible to make out a white eagle and read the stencilled lettering on its side. He grunted and pulled the fragment from his body. Its tip was sharpened to a dagger point, the last ten centimetres coated in blood. 'You don't get me that easy,' he snarled, standing calmly in the midst of the barrage."Pg.36 H&B 17
"He closed his eyes and exhaled as the shell struck. The high-explosive shell slashed down and struck the centre of the trench, as though a mathematician had plotted its trajectory. Confined by the high walls, the blast roared out along the trench, incinerating those closest to its point of impact, and shredding those beyond in tightly packed storms of tumbling metal. The shockwave blew men out of their overalls, leaving them naked and twisted into grotesque knots of liquefied bone and shattered limbs.
Honsou was plucked from the trench and hurled into the air. Dozens of red icons flashed to life on his visor as the reflecting blast waves pulled his body in a hundred different directions. Seams split, plates cracked and pressurised coils beneath his breastplate ruptured, venting corrosive gases and precious oxygen. He lost all perception of spatial awareness, and only knew which way was down when he slammed into a line of prefabricated, mesh-wrapped blocks of wall being driven forwards by the second wave of diggers.
Gathered up in the tumbling debris before the blocks, Honsou had no control over his movement. His body was still paralysed by the numbing force of the explosion, and he roared in frustration as he was pushed back towards the trench line. Earth and rock gathered around him, pinning his arms in place, but every nerve in his body was still reverberating in the aftermath of the blast, and he couldn't move.
The yawning black line approached, and Honsou knew there was nothing he could do to prevent his being buried in the trench. A fitting end to his short-lived reign as Warsmith or a bitter irony to be buried in the foundations of a siegework? He kept struggling, though there was nothing he could do to prevent being buried alive. To the last breath he would fight, even as hundreds of tonnes of rubble crushed him to death in the depths of an invaded world. The harsh rumble of the digger's engine changed pitch, changing from the throaty roar of a corpulent dragon to a squealing wail of a denied hedonist. Honsou teetered on the brink of the abyss, a rain of pebbles, soil and permacrete drooling into the trench in front of him. He let out the breath he hadn't realised he was holding and felt sensation return to his limbs. A hand reached out to him. He grabbed it unquestioningly and hauled himself upright, steadying himself with his entrenching tool."Pgs.38-39 H&B 17
Next we have a SM surviving a battle cannon shell:
"But the rest of his retort was swallowed in a thunderous explosion as the tank outside fired its battle cannon into the derelict building. The blast pulverised a ten-metre-wide section of the building's front entrance, showering the Astartes in a hail of jagged stone and metal."Pg.202 FA
"Nemiel watched the Astartes race up to the street corner and put their backs to a burnt-out storefront, their bolters held across their chests. One of the two warriors ― Brother Cortus, Nemiel thought ― slid to the end of the wall and peered around the corner.
Nemiel heard the battle cannon fire and watched the corner of the building Coitus was standing at disintegrate in the space of a single heartbeat. The two Astartes disappeared in a blizzard of pulverised stone and fragments of structural steel. A billowing cloud of dust and smoke enveloped the intersection and rolled down the street towards the rest of the squad.
The squad took cover on reflex, crouching behind rubble piles or pressing close to a building wall. Nemiel checked his helmet display and saw the status icon for Brother Cortus flash from green to amber. He was wounded, perhaps seriously, but still functional."Pg.188 FA
Space Marine durability is compared to a MBT
"With no home world, the Dragons had no infrastructure to produce and properly maintain vehicles. Those they had were for ultimate measures. But what did they need with vehicles when each Space Marine was a main battle tank with legs? Vritras's spearhead began its destruction of the enemy with fire from the rear. The Devastators of Squad Lanx unleashed their heavy bolters. Rounds with the destructive punch of artillery shells tore the cultists apart."Death of Antagonis
Space Marine survives being burried under hundreds,maybe thousands of tonnes of rock (it took him 2-7 days to dig his way out)
Space Marine survives T'au pulse rifles (comparable to plasma weapons)
"The tau warriors brought their own long-barrelled rifles to bear on Brother Qaja. Before the Space Marine could fire, a dozen blue energy bolts lanced towards him as the alien soldiers opened fire through what was clearly a one-way energy shield that allowed the tau to fire from behind its protection.
Brother Qaja was caught in the storm, the blue bolts slamming into his power armour and vaporising large chunks of ceramite and the flesh beneath.
Sarik bellowed a wordless curse at the sight of his closest battle-brother gunned down before him. The two warriors had shared such glories and such tragedies that a wound to one was a wound to the other. Rage and pain welled up inside Sarik and reason threatened to flee his mind entirely, so strong was the urge to avenge his fallen brother."
"But Sarik's curse turned into a howl of joy as he saw that his battle-brother was far from dead. Dragging himself up onto one knee, his face a mask of grim determination, Qaja levelled his cannon at the turret."Savage Scars
These guys also laugh at frag grenades and flamethrowers that can melt bones, resist heavy bolter and autocannon shots and survive being hit and then ran over with the tracks by a land raider(can provide quotes if you want)
My final 2 arguments for at least High 8-C are:
1)Primaris have been killed by Chaos Space Marines (comparable to normal marines)
2)According to the Deathwatch RPG which is the source for space marine's strength(also depends on dice rolls) so it's a valid source space marines can survive a plasma gun shot which makes sense when we take this calc of a plasma pistol into consideration which coincidentally is also High 8-C and is weaker than a plasma gun (Plasma Pistol Calc)
Image proof of what I'm about to say
A space marine has at least 19 wounds->a SM has at least 6 Toughness Bonus or TB(starting toughness min 3 and unnatural toughness means 6)->power armor has 10 armor to the body section->astartes plasma gun(stronger than normal plasma guns) can do a max of 19 damage and ignores 8 armor points->2 damage is reduced by the 2 remaining armor with 17 damage remaining->from 17 damage we subtract the 6 TB which gives us 11 damage->19-11=8 wounds->our marine has 8 remaining wounds and survives the max damage shot.(even a head shot woud leave us with 6 remaining wounds)
STRENGTH
Remember that backlift(strongest possible lifting move) is used for the composite human and a deadlift is one of the justifications for Master Chief's strength
Again image proof for what I'm about to say
Method 1:Deathwatch RPG tells us that a 2.1m SM weighs 500-1,000 kg in armor.SM power armor weighs 180kg which gives us a range of 320-820kg but SM are 7 ft 6 in (height on their profile) in or 2.29m, using the square cube law for volume we get a new range of 416-1,066kg with an average of 740 (mid-end weight).
The world record for bench press and dead lift are both 500kg and the people perforimg these weigh 164kg and respectively 145kg so we know humans are capable of benching and deadlifting at least 3 times their bodyweight
A 740kg SM would have aprox 2,220kg deadlift and bench now we use the unnatural strength bonus which doubles their strength so that gives us 4,440kg deadlift and bench.Now we use the 20% bonus from the power armor and we get aprox 5,320kg deadlift and bench->CLASS 10 for mid-end(average) SM
Proof of below (1,000kg, 2,700kg and 5,400 kg taken from profile)
Method 2:The weakest space marine can carry 1,000 kg withou being encumbered (like comfortably carrying a backpack) and 2,700 kg for 6 hours without fatigue (remember from above the min toughness bonus of a SM is 6) this means even if this is a weight he can carry for 6h we'll use a boulder lift and a clean and jerk world record (252 and 266 kg) this means the weakest SM is 10 times stronger than the strongest humans alive which gives us 5,000 kg bench and deadlift without the armor bonus and aprox 6,000 with it ->CLASS 10 again for the weakest SM
Also the SM pushes 5,400kg which is in class 10 (again remember backlift is used for composite human and deadlift for Master Chief)
In conclusion the Space Marine should be at least Tier High 8-C and Class 10 Lifting Strength
