Son Goku (SSJ4) vs Vegito (SSJ)

[AnimeFanboy2916]

At full power, who wins this fight? Baby Saga Goku

 

[Nickhf1]

I'll go with ssj4 goku with high difficulty. He has a higher AP, Durability but not to much higher. While Vegito probably has more techiniques at his disposal, A bit faster. But Vegito is quite cocky. If ssj4 Goku uses his most powerfulest attacks, It may be fast enough to get to Vegito, and end him due to his durability not being high enough to survive it.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Which Goku?

 

[Alexcar3000]

I'll go with ssj4 goku with high difficulty. He has a higher AP, Durability but not to much higher. While Vegito probably has more techiniques at his disposal, A bit faster. But Vegito is quite cocky. If ssj4 Goku uses his most powerfulest attacks, It may be fast enough to get to Vegito, and end him due to his durability not being high enough to survive it.

Vegito acted cocky in purpose so he can get himself aborbed by Buu in order to rescue the others that were inside him, he has the combined minds of Goku and Vegeta so he's quite smart in combat.

Goku SSJ4 started as equal to Vegito SSJ, but then got a power up so he should be at least a bit more powerful, but he's still constantly losing energy in that form, and Vegito doesn't seem to be tired at all after his fight with Buu, and Vegito can wear him down the moment he notices Goku is losing energy. I'll go with Vegito on this one.

 

[Pocket-Chu]

Initail ssj4 right? could go either way but i'm leaning towards Goku.

If we're using shadow dragon saga then Goku rofltomps as his base form is pretty much around super vegito level

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

If it's Goku after the Shadow Dragon saga, then Goku Stomps

 

[Alexcar3000]

If it's Goku after the Shadow Dragon saga, then Goku Stomps

I remember that Goku uses too much energy in his SSJ4 (at least on a lesser extent than SSJ3) and reverts back to base after some time, Vegito can exploit that weakness just like SSGSS Goku did to Golden Freezer.

 

[SomebodyData]

I remember that Goku uses too much energy in his SSJ4 (at least on a lesser extent than SSJ3) and reverts back to base after some time, Vegito can exploit that weakness just like SSGSS Goku did to Golden Freezer.

The only times I remember that is when:

-He began teleporting a bunch of people from a planet or something since it was gonna be destroyed (So obviously hes gonna be tired)

-And while fighting Super 17 (Absorbs power so not sure if it counts) and Omega/Syn Shenron whom are far superior (So it would make sence that he had to use more power)

But I digress, I think Goku wins for having more experiece with stronger fighters and being stronger in Shadow Dragon Arc

 

[Alexcar3000]

The only times I remember that is when:

-He began teleporting a bunch of people from a planet or something since it was gonna be destroyed (So obviously hes gonna be tired)

-And while fighting Super 17 (Absorbs power so not sure if it counts) and Omega/Syn Shenron whom are far superior (So it would make sence that he had to use more power)

But I digress, I think Goku wins for having more experiece with stronger fighters and being stronger in Shadow Dragon Arc

Well, my memories about GT are very iffy, I haven't seen it in years because I lost my DVDs. But, I still think Vegito has a chance to win here, I dunno, maybe I'm biased towards my favorite fusion, who knows.

 

[SSJRyu1]

The guide says Vegito is perhaps stronger than SSJ4, assuming it meant Goku as he was the only SSJ4 when it was written. Since this is baby arc SSJ4 Goku I think Vegito would win most likely. Vegito has a larger move pool, and SSJ4 drains energy faster than MSSJ. Also not sure if he's allowed to use it but Vegito could theoretically transform to SSJ2 and SSJ3 still as both Goku and Vegeta knew SSJ2, and Goku knew SSJ3, and even Gotenks could use SSJ3.

Also if you go the route of using battle power Vegito is technically Goku's level times Vegeta's according to the guides as well, that is a monstrous boost saying the Potara multiplier is equal to Goku or Vegeta's power level.

I think there is an instance where Baby says he's obtained the greatest of saiyan powers, and Goku says his power is the most awesome, however Vegito is non existent at this time, and he never did really use his true power on Buuhan for a reference, even surprising himself with the little bit of his power he did use, so personally I don't consider that statement to encompass a hypothetical serious MSSJ Vegito.

 

[SomebodyData]

The guide says Vegito is perhaps stronger than SSJ4, assuming it meant Goku as he was the only SSJ4 when it was written. Since this is baby arc SSJ4 Goku I think Vegito would win most likely. Vegito has a larger move pool, and SSJ4 drains energy faster than MSSJ. Also not sure if he's allowed to use it but Vegito could theoretically transform to SSJ2 and SSJ3 still as both Goku and Vegeta knew SSJ2, and Goku knew SSJ3, and even Gotenks could use SSJ3.
Also if you go the route of using battle power Vegito is technically Goku's level times Vegeta's according to the guides as well, that is a monstrous boost saying the Potara multiplier is equal to Goku or Vegeta's power level.

I think there is an instance where Baby says he's obtained the greatest of saiyan powers, and Goku says his power is the most awesome, however Vegito is non existent at this time, and he never did really use his true power on Buuhan for a reference, even surprising himself with the little bit of his power he did use, so personally I don't consider that statement to encompass a hypothetical serious MSSJ Vegito.

A- I'm not sure Vegito had MSSJ, as shown by the fact that hes Super Vegito, much like Vegeta's and Trunk's transformations in the Cell Saga

B- While Vegito does have a larger move pool, SSJ4 Goku should have a more powerful and mastered movepool, alongside much more experience

 

[SSJRyu1]

Well MSSJ is still SSJ, it just is the conditioning Goku gets so that they have the same control over SSJ as there base form as that was the goal of Goku's training. I don't see why he would not still retain that after fusion as its more of a technique and conditioning than a new form.

I'd question if SSJ4 baby saga really is more powerful actually. I mean base form Vegito dominates Buuhan who is already at least multi solar system level. The guide says Vegito is perhaps stronger than SSJ4, and power level wise his power level comes out as Goku's times Vegeta's which is a huge boost, much more than most would think of for a time skip power up.

Also Vegito has the combined experience of Goku and Vegeta, both of whom are like what 50 by Buu saga, so I think having all of Vegeta's experience added into the mix would be even better than an extra 15 years, because Vegeta has 50 years+ of battle experience to add in Vegito's case.

Also not sure if he's being allowed to in this battle but Vegito could theoretically still use SSJ2 and probably SSJ3 if he needed it.

 

[Alexcar3000]

I think they are more or less equal in power, but Vegito (having the combined minds of Goku and Vegeta) is smarter and more skilled, I know that GT Goku had 10 years (or 5) of training after the Buu saga, but Vegito still takes this IMO. And Goku will start losing energy after a while, not as much as SSJ3, but more or less than SSJ2, and that's another advantage for Vegito. The skill is probably gonna be the deciding factor.

 

[SomebodyData]

Well MSSJ is still SSJ, it just is the conditioning Goku gets so that they have the same control over SSJ as there base form as that was the goal of Goku's training. I don't see why he would not still retain that after fusion as its more of a technique and conditioning than a new form.
I'd question if SSJ4 baby saga really is more powerful actually. I mean base form Vegito dominates Buuhan who is already at least multi solar system level. The guide says Vegito is perhaps stronger than SSJ4, and power level wise his power level comes out as Goku's times Vegeta's which is a huge boost, much more than most would think of for a time skip power up.

Also Vegito has the combined experience of Goku and Vegeta, both of whom are like what 50 by Buu saga, so I think having all of Vegeta's experience added into the mix would be even better than an extra 15 years, because Vegeta has 50 years+ of battle experience to add in Vegito's case.

Also not sure if he's being allowed to in this battle but Vegito could theoretically still use SSJ2 and probably SSJ3 if he needed it.

1- Eh I guess, although I should note that Super Vegito was being described to be close to SSJ4, not SSJ Vegito (Theres a small but noticeable difference between Super and SSJ)

2-Base GT Goku is also 4-A for being as strong as SSJ3 Goku, while its not as a big of a feat, but when you add the multipliers and you might actually get closer than you think

3-Said extra years was enough to get Goku to a whole new level, I think they may be a tad more valuable.

4-Well the op doesn't say SSJ2 and SSJ3 so I'm not sure if thats allowed

 

[SSJRyu1]

Super Vegito is the same thing as SSJ Vegito no? Or are you saying that Super Vegito is like the ascended saiyan form? I mean that's possible but since MSSJ was said to be more efficient I doubt that form is used after Cell saga.

True, but Buuhan > SSJ3, and base form Vegito dominates him. I figure for multipliers if we lowball Vegito as 3 million times 3 million aka frieza saga levels, he is 9 trillion in base and 450 trillion as SSJ. Goku if we say he is 3 million buu saga, times 400 for the time skip to equal SSJ3 level, times 4000 for his initial SSJ4, he would be 1.6 trillion as SSJ4. So I mean even if he were 100 times that somehow he would still be below SSJ Vegito. I think you see my point on the scaling route, albeit it's still fan scaling but I think it is accurate.

True, but I still don't think 15 years is equal to 50+, especially with the different knowledge set Vegeta has having been a space pirate for so long. Also remember the 50 years of experience saw Vegeta obtain whole new levels of power multiple times in DBZ.

Fair enough. If no SSJ2 or SSJ3 then I would still think Vegito wins, but it will be harder without the extra forms, if he gets them he definably wins imo since Super Vegito is already perhaps stronger.

 

[SomebodyData]

Super Vegito is the same thing as SSJ Vegito no? Or are you saying that Super Vegito is like the ascended saiyan form? I mean that's possible but since MSSJ was said to be more efficient I doubt that form is used after Cell saga.
True, but Buuhan > SSJ3, and base form Vegito dominates him. I figure for multipliers if we lowball Vegito as 3 million times 3 million aka frieza saga levels, he is 9 trillion in base and 450 trillion as SSJ. Goku if we say he is 3 million buu saga, times 400 for the time skip to equal SSJ3 level, times 4000 for his initial SSJ4, he would be 1.6 trillion as SSJ4. So I mean even if he were 100 times that somehow he would still be below SSJ Vegito. I think you see my point on the scaling route, albeit it's still fan scaling but I think it is accurate.

True, but I still don't think 15 years is equal to 50+, especially with the different knowledge set Vegeta has having been a space pirate for so long. Also remember the 50 years of experience saw Vegeta obtain whole new levels of power multiple times in DBZ.

Fair enough. If no SSJ2 or SSJ3 then I would still think Vegito wins, but it will be harder without the extra forms, if he gets them he definably wins imo since Super Vegito is already perhaps stronger.

In assumed that its like Super Vegeta, because well, the name is the same.

Like yours, I assume that SSJ Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku by a margin I can get SSJ3 Gotenks as lets say 12 SSJ3s, Ultimate Gohan likely would be an 18, and Ultimate Buu should be around a 42. Base Vegito would be lets say 63 SSJ3s, right there and then we can see that it would end with 3150x SSJ3 Goku for SSJ Vegito, and 4000x SSJ3 Gokus for SSJ4 Goku, add the "Super" transformation and it can be seen where the "similar to a SSJ4" comes from.

However, in the majority of those years as a space pirate he fought far weaker enemies and Goku sparred for 10 or 15 years with Uub who I presume should be very strong. And yes Vegeta did reach various new levels, however none of them like SSJ3 Goku level

 

[SSJRyu1]

In assumed that its like Super Vegeta, because well, the name is the same.

Like yours, I assume that SSJ Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku by a margin I can get SSJ3 Gotenks as lets say 12 SSJ3s, Ultimate Gohan likely would be an 18, and Ultimate Buu should be around a 42. Base Vegito would be lets say 63 SSJ3s, right there and then we can see that it would end with 3150x SSJ3 Goku for SSJ Vegito, and 4000x SSJ3 Gokus for SSJ4 Goku, add the "Super" transformation and it can be seen where the "similar to a SSJ4" comes from.

However, in the majority of those years as a space pirate he fought far weaker enemies and Goku sparred for 10 or 15 years with Uub who I presume should be very strong. And yes Vegeta did reach various new levels, however none of them like SSJ3 Goku level

I agree with your scaling for buu saga guys, however Vegito is said to be gokus power level times vegetas in the guides, so when using the given multiplier he is actually way stronger than Buuhan even in base, even using frieza saga base levels he would be 3,000,000 times base Goku or 7,500 times SSJ3, and this is base form. So based on what the multipliers are it seems the gap in power from Buuhan to Vegito is even larger than most think. BUt of course multipliers are only one part of it.

In the end multipliers aside I take it as Vegito is at least a little stronger due to what the guides say, when comparing the two, although since Vegito has more of a move pool, and 50+ years instead of 15, as well as a less draining form, I lean toward saying he would win, but I'm not gonna say it's easy for either of them as they are both in the same power range.

 

[SomebodyData]

I agree with your scaling for buu saga guys, however Vegito is said to be gokus power level times vegetas in the guides, so when using the given multiplier he is actually way stronger than Buuhan even in base, even using frieza saga base levels he would be 3,000,000 times base Goku or 7,500 times SSJ3, and this is base form. So based on what the multipliers are it seems the gap in power from Buuhan to Vegito is even larger than most think. But of course multipliers are only one part of it.

In the end multipliers aside I take it as Vegito is at least a little stronger due to what the guides say, when comparing the two, although since Vegito has more of a move pool, and 50+ years instead of 15, as well as a less draining form, I lean toward saying he would win, but I'm not gonna say it's easy for either of them as they are both in the same power range.

Wait what? 3,000,000x? The gap might be smaller than you think, there was a point with Ultimate Buu actually worrying Super Vegito alot during their fight (when Ultimate Buu started raging) meaning that if we used the same boost that Kid Gohan used against Raditz we would get that Base Vegito is only about 20x stronger than Gohan Buu who is also 20x stronger than SSJ3 Goku (when you imput gohan and Gotenks) so in total hes 400x SSJ3 Goku in his base (Impressive but it should be somewhat comparable to SSJ3 GT Goku Bebi Saga) Even my lowball had the minimum of 40x for SSJ4 Goku so useing the lowball, SSJ4Goku should lose, but the mid end and more importantly the high end are more reasonable)

Eh the guidelines make me think hes actually weaker than a super sayian 4 as he is in his Super state and it said like to a super sayian 4 and considering that both SSJ4 Goku and SV were rather acting cocky, it could be that (As shown by the fact that apparently they can sence the intent of a character by that) but considering that hes comparable, yeah it is really hard to tell, I would put this as inconclusive

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

I'm going go from what their pages say

Vegito, AP: At Max Multi Solar System level , Durabilty: Multi Solar System level, Speed: FTL+

ssj4 goku. AP: At max: Galaxy level, durabilty: Galaxy level , speed: ftl+

As you can see, goku is superior in every stat expect speed, so he should take this rather easily

And i'm not buying that whole Vegito as strong as ssj4 goku nonsense

 

[MKJ_6_18_01]

SSj4 Goku is not galaxy level.He is Multi-Solar system.It was Goku after absorbing the dragon balls that is Galaxy level.The OP said Baby Saga Goku so

 

[SSJRyu1]

I don't think that it was the power he was worried about but the fact it could cause the universe to collapse. I mean after all once Buuhan finishes he taunts him and says to focus that power on him. So I think it was more the threat, considering Super Vegito is more than 50X Buuhan.

Well the 3,000,000 is going by what the guides state as Gokus power level times vegeta's and using the last known level for base which was 3,000,000 so if anything it is conservative if you use the multipliers given in the guide.

But I do agree that even the guides say "perhaps stronger" so all in all I think they are hinting at them being to close to call and although scaling wise I get Vegito much higher I would be inclined to say inconclusive as well, also I'd upgrade Vegito to at least multi Solar system+ on the profiles as well like Goku since he is at least in the same tier as baby saga SSJ4 Goku based on all the given information, and even his base form dominated Buuhan who is already at least multi solar system level.

 

[DBZMLP12345]

Really depends which SSJ4 Goku, If its Super 17 or Shadow Dragon Arc SSJ4 Goku, then Goku would stomps, seeing as how SSJ Goku (S17 Arc)>Majuub>SSJ3 Goku (Baby Arc), since SSJ3 is 8x SSJ, Goku got at least 10x from Baby to S17 Arcs, we dont know if Goku got even stronger in SD Arc aside from absorbing th power of Gohan, Goten and Trunks and stomping Syn Shenron, so if its Baby Arc SSJ4 Goku, then Vegito has a chance, if its S17 or SD Arc SSJ4 Goku, then I see Vegito losing, even if he went SSJ3