Should Post Crisis Superman be considered Universal tier?

[Lunacorva]

So, alot of us have probably watched the Death Battle: Goku vs Superman videos where they posit the idea that Superman is stronger than Goku no matter what, because his power is "Limitless". I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here and post their arguments here for serious discussion to see if those claims can be debunked, or if Superman really is as strong as they say he is.

(Plus, if we get this out of the way now, we don't have to worry about further people making the argument.)

NOTE: The purpose of this is to analyse the arguments and statements themselves, not "I love Death Battle" or "Death Battle sucks! They're stupid!"

Argument #1:Trying to beat Superman is pointless because his power is "Limitless" and he is: "As strong as he needs to be."

Argument #2: Superman heard a sound light years away through the vaccum of space. Since this is physically impossible, that means Superman can do anything and it is therefore pointless to try and quantify his abilities.

Now, these arguments are more philosophical (Though still worthy of discussion), but let's try to add some feats to the mix.

Feat #1: Superman can hold both Infinity and Eternity (Should put him at Universal level for lifting strength)

Further Feats: These are all mentioned rapidfire. But they do seem to put him well above Star level.

 

[Antoniofer]

Sorry, but we don't consider rasonings from other communities; futhermore, the only "universal" feats from Superman (Lifting Infinity and shaking reality or something) are considered outliers since he hasn't shown anything above Large Star.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Antonio iirc the thing about lifting the book of infinite pages was debunked because he a. needed help and b. someone (dont remember who) read to the end of the book. Could be wrong though.

 

[Antoniofer]

Welp, half of something pretty big is still pretty big, last thread about that was considered outlier; at the end wouldn't be considered due being outlierish.

 

[Huesito88]

No anything above large star level would be consider a outliner for superman (even though I personally believe he is solar system level). Also that tanking 50 supernovas thing was out of context superman would have got killed but he ran way from it. Absorbed enough sunlight from someone else he didn't like just gain it by charging in the sun. Spectere weghting eternity really so I guess the planet is universal in durabilty. Lifted infintie ok I will say he actually did lift infintie supported by maddarak stating it was (but still a outliner). Also for any other superman universal feats here they are (https://joke-battles.fandom.com/wiki/Superman_(Outlier_Edition)

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Also, for the argument of:

"Superman heard a sound light years away through the vacuum of space. Since this is physically impossible, that means Superman can do anything and it is therefore pointless to try and quantify his abilities."

Doing things that are considered physically impossible by humans is extremely commonplace in comics, and in fiction in general. By no means does it mean he can do literally anything.

 

[Huesito88]

Weekly actually superman lifted the whole of existence maddarak states that (still a outliner though). Most people missed that when they were debunking that. http://m.imgur.com/eXZFfyA

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The book of infinite pages didn't actually have infinite mass; it was simply "The title of the Book." Its actual weight was the page of every book ever written; which is very impressive and unknown, but Not infinite. Plus, as Weekly Battles said, he needed help from Shazam/Captian Marvel. And in the end, they actually failed to lift it.

And as for lifting Spectre, Eternity is a measurement of time, not mass. He does have the ability to change his own weight so he doesn't weigh down the Earth for example. And at the same time, he needed help from Wonder Woman. And once again, their combined strength failed to lift it.

And as the other said, Post Crisis Superman never canonically did anything aboce Large Star Level.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

as far as the book of infinite pages, there were some queestions to whether it even had infinite pages, and also, iirc it was floating in the air to begin with, and not only that, but superman failed to move it


as for spectre, superman failed in lifting him, and iirc spectre fell on the ground and the ground/ planet was intact after the fall

 

[Huesito88]

The book doesn't contain infintie pages but it does contain all of existence Stated by maddarak http://m.imgur.com/eXZFfyA

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with WeeklyBattles, DarkDragonMedeus, Huesito, and The Living Tribunal1.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The book of Infinite Pages does have Infinite Mass. There's no need to lie about something to debunk it, rather have it be an outlier.

 

[SunWukong1986]

Is it me, or are they just biased? Like they underestimated Goku and they state that Superman is "limitless". They barely stated about their striking strength and their combat speed as they only talked about their lifting strength and travel speed, and it was at the time when Goku was at the Saiyan Saga reaching at least Mach 9 (when making Snake Way as a straight path) and the Buu Saga with 40 tons. I know that Superman is pretty fast at a straight line at a accelerated rate as well as benching the planet, but come one, at least make it fair for Goku. Especially when Ben Singer (who plays Wiz) says that even if Goku clashed with Beerus since episode 12 and 13 when crumbling the universe "won't make much of the difference" in that outcome. What do you guys think?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Screwattack is biased towards Superman and is terrible at debating. In other words the sky is blue.

 

[-BANLK-]

The thing is ignoring "That" community's philosophical BS, they do not exclude outliers while debating (Which is dumb.) so if we see by their logic then ya Supes stomp Goku.....

 

[Antvasima]

Let's tone down the community bashing please.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, since the topic has been answered, I will close this thread.