Saiki Kusuo vs Tatsuya Shiba.

[Edwellken]

Might seem like a stomp at first glance going by the tiers, but I believe both have the hax to pull off a potential win, as well as the AP to put the other down physically (albeit maybe not permanently.) and both are supersonic in movement speed at least.

In character but both know that the other is a great threat that needs to be taken care of urgently.

Speed now equalized.

Tatsuya gets all equipment, Saiki starts with limiters IN, but can take them out if he sees fit.

Battle takes place on the roof of a tall skyscraper in Tokyo (though they are NOT limited to this area).

Win by any means necessary as long as the opponent is no longer a threat.

(PS. Sorry in advance if this actually ends up being a stomp thread.)

 

[Omni-everything]

gotta go with my boi saiki even if tatsuya speed blits him saiki can teleport read his mind and saiki have and saiki can warp reality plus tatsuya's Regenerationn have its limits when saiki's regeration is like the power josuke and saiki destroyed a large island with his limiters are on jus imagine saiki without a limiters

 

[Gemmysaur]

Tatsuya deletes him from existence with Demon Right faster than he can think (regardless of whether we take his relativistic reflexes seriously, since it still leaves him with Hypersonic+ reflexes). You can't dodge something that's not aimed at you but at the idea that is "you".

 

[Edwellken]

So far 1 vote for each. Would it be more fair if speed were equalized?

 

[Gemmysaur]

The hard thing about Tatsuya is that he either lolstomps or gets stomped. He doesn't have a middle ground, but I guess speed equal would be better.

My vote is still on Tatsuya because Saiki's typical starter is reading his opponent's mind, which is useless against Tatsuya because Demon Right is undodgeable, and that Tatsuya in a serious fight (not a tournament, or when he is hampered by people knowing his true powers) just outright deletes his opponent.

 

[Edwellken]

Alright, speed is now equalized. Nice answer btw.

 

[DontTalk]

@Gremmysaur:

Can I get a quote on Demon right being undodgeable? (like a not hyperbole one as far as those exist).

Because the eidos is quite something different than an "idea" in common sense, given that the eidos is a psion construct and as far as I have seen the eidos constructs are in the same place as the user, as can be seen from the fact that tatsuya actually aims at people when he uses mist dispersion or that phalanx hides the personal information of the user.

 

[Gemmysaur]

ELEMENTAL SIGHT

Elemental Sight, also known as Eyes of the Spirit among the Traditional Magicians in the 101 Independent Magic-Equipped Battalion, is a sensory ability that allows Tatsuya to connect to the Information Dimension and identify the landscape down to every detail. Every person and object imprints their Eidos within the Information dimension, and every system and type of magic projects Sequences onto the Eidos through it. Because of this,othing can escape from Tatsuya's Elemental Sight. Moreover, he can identify and examine each and every Eidos and Sequence and target them separately, irrespective of distance. It can be used to analyze any physical device or material at least down to the atomic level and his artificial MCA can dissect even the most secretive magic.

As a result, compared to normal Sensory Magic, Elemental Sight is a Supernatural Power that might attract more attention from Magicians than Material Burst. Only phenomena that obscures a target's information can offer some level of protectio, but even then, such protection can be destroyed by some form of Decomposition, either singly or as part of a Loop Cast series. Completely hiding one's information does not prevent detection as Tatsuya will notice the lack of information. Only by disguising information can detection by Tatsuya be possibly avoided.

- - -

Anything with a physical body in this world has their Eidos imprinted in the information dimension. Also, this isn't done through the five senses, or as if he could "see through" this expanded information dimension and the subsystem's signals to pull out the targets he needed. Rather, he is able to identify each and every Eidos and target them separately. In other words, no one can escape from his Elemental Sight. Also, by using Elemental Sight, users have a 360˚ field of "vision," regardless of physical obstacles, making it excellent for protection.

- - -

What Tatsuya sees is not images but information. Structural information of corporeal bodies are converted by the unconscious mind into signals the conscious mind can easily comprehend.

- - -

Tatsuya aims, but not because Demon Right shoots out as a projectile, since it has none. Tatsuya targets the information body of his intended target, regardless of distance, obstacles, etc. So, technically, it can't really be dodged since there is nothing at all to dodge.

Also, as for why Juumonji Katsuto can counter Elemental Sight and subsequently, Demon Right...

- - -

PHALANX

The offensive barrier which possesses the sole function of being impermeable to all attacks can even be spread out within another person's magic. The magic barrier that sets matter as its target possesses the interference strength that simply disallows any other magic to exist.

- - -

It effectively prevents Tatsuya's access by disallowing his magic from entering.

 

[DontTalk]

At least per the wiki phalanx doesn't allow access because it shields the information of the user behind it from sight. The thing is a barrier with the concept "behind" only makes sense if actual direction is involved.

None of those parts of the wiki pages actually say anything about undodgeable. There is the information dimension, which contains the information body made from psions and it is indeed those he targets.

Buuuuut it is not that all information bodies have a static positioning in the information dimension.

If the target moves in reality its Eidos moves in the information dimension to my understanding and that is what he has to aim at.

In a certain way it seems like the information overlays the real world like a phase.


Parade is also a good example of it not being that static. It avoids mist dispersion, by hiding the users coordinates from direct view as far as I understand. Essentially if you want to manipulate the events of the real world their coordinates seem to be part of the information you need.

The overlying information dimension also fits the fact that an uncoordinated psion storm like contact type gram demolition can stop tatsuya from locking on a targets molecular structure.


Though discussion via wiki entries = bad. Someone should probably read the novel to discuss about such things.

Either way I don't care about the discussion much. Tatsuya probably wins and if its just because Saiki has never had a serious confrontation in his life and is a bad fighter.

So until I or someone else has read the novel that's it from my side...

 

[Gemmysaur]

I'll look up for more concrete evidence then. Haven't read the novel since the flashback chapter anyway, so now's a good time to do so. Not changing my vote though.

 

[Edwellken]

That makes sense. I can't say I entirely understand (my knowledge on Tatsuya being limited to the anime and what I've seen in other vs threads) but in order to avoid the attack, Saiki would have to somehow manipulate the information Tatsuya sees in a way that he can't accurately target him with said attack? Now he may or may not be able to do this with reality warping or mind manipulation, but he'd have to read Tatsuya's mind first and with speed being equal it's likely Tatsuya would have already unleashed the attack before Saiki could do anything but read his mind.

Now on the other hand, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Tatsuya need his weapon to use decomposition magic? It wouldn't be entirely out of character for Saiki to instantly switch Tatsuya's weapons with something of equal value since even though he hasn't been in a serious fight, he can still be harmed by bullets and knives.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Now on the other hand, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Tatsuya need his weapon to use decomposition magic?

Doesn't need it. Just makes it easier to cast since he doesn't have to commit part of his brain to it.

 

[Edwellken]

Doesn't need it. Just makes it easier to cast since he doesn't have to commit part of his brain to it.

Fair enough. (Not sure how I forgot that scene, it was easily one of the coolest moments lol) Though getting rid of his weapons may still give Saiki enough time to read his mind.

That being said, I am leaning towards Tatsuya.

 

[Gemmysaur]

The fact that he goes for mind-reading directly after ridding the weapons is time for Tatsuya to delete him.

 

[DontTalk]

Technically Saiki passively reads the minds of everyone in his sourroundings at all times and can literally not turn it off, though.

So counting it as move during which he can not do other stuff isn't all that correct.

 

[Edwellken]

@DontTalk

I was about to say something similar but you beat me to it. He reads minds automatically but he doesn't always pay attention to it.

I just didn't want to be the only person arguing on Saiki's behalf since I'm admittedly easy to persuade when everyone is telling me the same thing.

 

[DontTalk]

Well, he ignores most of it,but seems to catch a sufficient amount to know if someone plans to attack him and if they are hiding something dangerous.

 

[Omni-everything]

have you seen saiki's attack potency . saiki's attack potency is planetary level while in the other hand tatsuya shiba is continental level

 

[Hellspawn_Barbarian]

If Saiki removes his one of his limiter he becomes more like planet level reality warper. Saiki will already read Shiba's mind and will read what attacks he gonna do and based on that Saiki will sure take some precautions and beat the crap out of him.

 

[Omni-everything]

If Saiki removes his one of his limiter he becomes more like planet level reality warper. Saiki will already read Shiba's mind and will read what attacks he gonna do and based on that Saiki will sure take some precautions and beat the crap out of him.

agree saiki is very opitimistic

 

[Edwellken]

have you seen saiki's attack potency . saiki's attack potency is planetary level while in the other hand tatsuya shiba is continental level

And Saiki's durability is wall level.

Tatsuya: 1

Saiki: 2

 

[Edwellken]

Bump?

 

[Hellspawn_Barbarian]

Stomp thread

 

[Omni-everything]

some one should close this im gonna ask someone in the chat

 

[Hellspawn_Barbarian]

Bump

 

[Augusmika]

Just passing by and not entirely related to the match but saiki's profile lacks his ability to turn people into stone automatically if he's not wearing glasses. It was shown in one of the shorts of the last week.

 

[Omni-everything]

stomp thread

 

[Hellspawn_Barbarian]

Just passing by and not entirely related to the match but saiki's profile lacks his ability to turn people into stone automatically if he's not wearing glasses. It was shown in one of the shorts of the last week.

Oh yeah forgot about this. So Saiki doesn't need to reality warp for this. He stomps Shiba just by looking at him, making him stone.

 

[Kekkama]

I think we're forgeting Saiki is a precog here. He can see the future. It activates whenever something inconvinent is going to happen to him, so you can bet it will trigger when somebody is comming to kill him, even with his limiters in.


Saiki identifies Tatsuya as a threat the morning before the fight, and erases him from existance before Tetsuya even knows he's under attack.


I should also note that Saiki seems pretty underpowered on here. The TV tropes page for the manga lists him as a type 3-5 Omnipotent. In the manga he often breaks the fourth wall and talks to the reader directly, knowing he's in a manga.

 

[Promestein]

No prep, so the characters are only aware of each other once it starts, so Saiki's not doing anything to him before the battle starts.

 

[Hellspawn_Barbarian]

No prep, so the characters are only aware of each other once it starts, so Saiki's not doing anything to him before the battle starts.

I disagree.

 

[Kekkama]

If Saiki can't do anything to him directly, then he can just get rid of magic and then Tatsuya is powerless. I really don't see anyway for Tatsuya to win.


Saiki falls under the same umbrella as Saitama. Grossly overpowered for comedic effect. You can't even compare them to action anime characters because their plotlines aren't driven by their abilities.

 

[Promestein]

I disagree.

Well, those are the rules.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Kekkama

Saiki has no way of knowing that Tatsuya is using magic before the fight starts, and even then, Saiki is just too apathetic about his whole situation to care.

The whole "characters who are meant to beat everyone else because they're joke characters" doesn't fly here, as we work off feats and proper power-scaling.

 

[Omni-everything]

No prep, so the characters are only aware of each other once it starts, so Saiki's not doing anything to him before the battle starts.

i disagree have you forgotten that saiki's passive is telepathy and his telepathy is advance that he can mind control manipulate memory and etc and saiki can mess tatsuya's head either for distraction or search every single bit of information of what he is gonna do or what are his powers plus before it even begin he fully read tatsuya's powers or have a precognition of the whole battle plus so when you say saiki's not doing anything before battle starts no m8 saiki is like urahara in bleach saiki have any strategy from any possible outcome so he will make a move plus saiki can just remove his sunglasses to petrify tatsuya

 

[Reppuzan]

@Omni-everything

But he'll never do that as a first move due to how indifferent he is to his surroundings.

 

[Kekkama]

@Reppuzan

If we're going by how the character actualy acts then Saiki would most likely just break the forth wall, inform you that this contest is stupid, and then leave for some coffee jelly.

 

[Hellspawn_Barbarian]

> Saiki reads his oppoent's mind.

> Saiki is aware of what his opponent gonna do him.

> Saiki rekts Shiba via reality warping or turns him to stone.

 

[Sieghart.chaser]

Close this thread already. Saiki Stomp. He has precognition so Saiki can aware what Tatsuya will do even without telepathy. and his precognition almost close to seeing the future. And then you pick how Tatsuya will die

-Reality warping

-Petrified stare

-Teleport him to space.

-Destroy him with entire island with it.

-Destroy the planet it self.

-Fool his perception and he aim his erasing ability toward his own sister.

There still more.

 

[Edwellken]

He wouldn't do most of that in character though. That said, I did make this thread before Saiki's petrification ability was a thing, and was already unsure if it would be a stomp. I'm fine with it being closed if a staff member thinks it should be.