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Records of VsBattles Match 2 of 13 - Ruby Rose vs Grimgor Ironhide
- Thread starter Naito-desu
- Start date
Spinoirr
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Ruby's AP: post haven Ruby is 9.94 tons of tnt strong, stronger with Gravity dust
Skill chain:
At the bottom of the skill chain is aura users as a whole. While every living being in RWBY technically has Aura, actually being able to utilize it for things such as defense, regen, and senses requires years of training and a high enough degree of martial skill (and yes you actually need martial skill for it) that only a small percentage of the population of the entire planet ever become skilled enough to utilize their aura. Of that small percentage, an even smaller percentage ever become skilled enough to manifest/control a Semblance (yes semblances are also skill-based). To reach this small percentage comes to the second half of the bottom of the chain: Almost every character worth their salt in RWBY has spent their entire life training in combat and can fight hordes of Grimm with little issue (Almost because Jaune exists). The entirety of the main cast of RWBY was initially enrolled at Beacon Academy, one of the most prestigious combat schools in the world, with almost everyone who was accepted there having been trained for almost their entire life to fight monsters, and each one that was not professionally trained requiring a skill display overseen by Ozpin, who has the composite skill of several thousand professional huntsmen that he accumulated over his immortal lifetime.
Thats the baseline for skill in the verse.
Before the Beacon Arc Ruby had been personally trained by her uncle Qrow in combat and as a result she was noted as always excelling above her peers in combat training. At the start of the series Ruby was at a level of skill that even though she was two years away from being eligible to join Beacon she was admitted due her combat prowess impressing Ozpin, with him noting that she was already a master at wielding one of the most dangerous weapons ever designed. In combat Ruby is capable of taking on entire hordes of Grimm on her own and walking away without a scratch and utilizing the different functionalities of the Crescent Rose, such as the massive recoil from the rifle aspect of the weapon and the weapon's transformative capabilities, in tandem with each other and her Semblance in order to maintain an edge over her opponent. Basically every named character is around this level of skill in the early seasons.
Now for Velvet. Velvet is able to perfectly and instantly mimic the exact moves that she observes other people use in combat as well as utilize multiple different fighting styles simultaneously, both armed and unarmed. Thanks to Anesidora, Velvet is also able to copy fighting styles that utilize weapons, and she is able to wield the weapons that she copies just as effectively as their original user. To date that we know of, Velvet is able to simultaneously utilize the fighting styles and weapons of Ruby Rose, Yang Xiao Long, Weiss Schnee, Blake Belladonna, Nora Valkyrie, Sun Wukong, Penny Polendina, Coco Adel, Peter Port, Reese Chloris, Fox Alistar, Vega Bleu, Yatsuhashi Daichi, Russel Thrush, Roy Stallion, Neptune Vasilias, Brawnz Ni, Bartholomew Oobleck, Flynt Coal, Edward Caspian, and Scarlet David. Of note, every person listed spent their entire lives training in combat and several of them are professional huntsmen with decades of combat experience.
Moving up the chain we have Nebula Violette, who not only outmatched Velvet in a 1v1 test of martial arts skill, but was directly stated to be more skilled than Velvet in combat despite Velvet mixing numerous fighting styles to try to throw her off in their fight.
Above her is Pyrrha Nikos, the skill god of the Beacon Arc. Pyrrha is one of the most skilled students at Beacon Academy, having won every combat tournament she has entered since she was a pre-teen due to both her mastery of combat and mastery of her semblance, being able to apply it in combat completely undetected and having done so in almost every fight she's been in for over a decade, doing so with such skill and precision that she has lead many to believe she is untouchable and invincible as no one has been able to even land a blow on her in her combat career. Even without her semblance she has shown the ability to quickly and easily adapt to her combat situation and analyze her opponents while fighting and changing tactics to suit the situation she is in. She has shown extreme accuracy, being able to hit moving targets from hundreds of meters away and strike vital weak points on an opponent mid-combat both with and without the aid of her semblance. She is also highly skilled at using her weapon's multiple forms in combat, being able to switch between forms several times in rapid succession to both deliver rapid attacks and counter others simultaneously.
Then theres Mercury. Mercury is a veritable master of close combat, having spent his entire life training in pure martial combat to make up for his Semblance being stolen by his father. He is shown to be a very acrobatic and agile fighter who relies upon quickly overpowering his opponent with complex kicks that imply a near-mastery of martial arts that resemble Tae-Kwon-Do. He is also capable of a break-dancing style, similar to Capoeira, and makes use of Muay Thai as well. Despite his focus on kicks, Mercury also uses his hands to grapple, block or redirect enemy attacks. His experience and skill are aggressive and effective enough to drive even fighters of a high caliber, like Pyrrha, into a defensive position, with Word of God confirming that Mercury would defeat her if he fought her seriously. Due to his fighting style, Mercury relies on his swift and quick reflexes to counter and block his opponent's attacks as first demonstrated during his fight with Yang Xiao Long, altering the course of her punches and using his footwork to raise her fists and kick underneath or around her attacks. Despite the presumed awkwardness of his weapon's ranged capabilities he is a skilled marksman, able to shoot a phone out of a person's hand from a good distance away, and is proficient at using the many different forms of projectiles at his disposal to keep his opponents off balance. Mercury is also known to be observant, tactical, and analytical, able to notice and deduce the capabilities and limits of Pyrrha's Polarity Semblance after she uses it once during their brief fight, despite Pyrrha using it extremely subtly in combat and having spent her entire life honing her ability to hide her Semblance and its mechanics from her opponents and the general public.
Speed: speed is equal, however ruby can go faster with her semblance and becomes Intangible in this state
Skill chain:
At the bottom of the skill chain is aura users as a whole. While every living being in RWBY technically has Aura, actually being able to utilize it for things such as defense, regen, and senses requires years of training and a high enough degree of martial skill (and yes you actually need martial skill for it) that only a small percentage of the population of the entire planet ever become skilled enough to utilize their aura. Of that small percentage, an even smaller percentage ever become skilled enough to manifest/control a Semblance (yes semblances are also skill-based). To reach this small percentage comes to the second half of the bottom of the chain: Almost every character worth their salt in RWBY has spent their entire life training in combat and can fight hordes of Grimm with little issue (Almost because Jaune exists). The entirety of the main cast of RWBY was initially enrolled at Beacon Academy, one of the most prestigious combat schools in the world, with almost everyone who was accepted there having been trained for almost their entire life to fight monsters, and each one that was not professionally trained requiring a skill display overseen by Ozpin, who has the composite skill of several thousand professional huntsmen that he accumulated over his immortal lifetime.
Thats the baseline for skill in the verse.
Before the Beacon Arc Ruby had been personally trained by her uncle Qrow in combat and as a result she was noted as always excelling above her peers in combat training. At the start of the series Ruby was at a level of skill that even though she was two years away from being eligible to join Beacon she was admitted due her combat prowess impressing Ozpin, with him noting that she was already a master at wielding one of the most dangerous weapons ever designed. In combat Ruby is capable of taking on entire hordes of Grimm on her own and walking away without a scratch and utilizing the different functionalities of the Crescent Rose, such as the massive recoil from the rifle aspect of the weapon and the weapon's transformative capabilities, in tandem with each other and her Semblance in order to maintain an edge over her opponent. Basically every named character is around this level of skill in the early seasons.
Now for Velvet. Velvet is able to perfectly and instantly mimic the exact moves that she observes other people use in combat as well as utilize multiple different fighting styles simultaneously, both armed and unarmed. Thanks to Anesidora, Velvet is also able to copy fighting styles that utilize weapons, and she is able to wield the weapons that she copies just as effectively as their original user. To date that we know of, Velvet is able to simultaneously utilize the fighting styles and weapons of Ruby Rose, Yang Xiao Long, Weiss Schnee, Blake Belladonna, Nora Valkyrie, Sun Wukong, Penny Polendina, Coco Adel, Peter Port, Reese Chloris, Fox Alistar, Vega Bleu, Yatsuhashi Daichi, Russel Thrush, Roy Stallion, Neptune Vasilias, Brawnz Ni, Bartholomew Oobleck, Flynt Coal, Edward Caspian, and Scarlet David. Of note, every person listed spent their entire lives training in combat and several of them are professional huntsmen with decades of combat experience.
Moving up the chain we have Nebula Violette, who not only outmatched Velvet in a 1v1 test of martial arts skill, but was directly stated to be more skilled than Velvet in combat despite Velvet mixing numerous fighting styles to try to throw her off in their fight.
Above her is Pyrrha Nikos, the skill god of the Beacon Arc. Pyrrha is one of the most skilled students at Beacon Academy, having won every combat tournament she has entered since she was a pre-teen due to both her mastery of combat and mastery of her semblance, being able to apply it in combat completely undetected and having done so in almost every fight she's been in for over a decade, doing so with such skill and precision that she has lead many to believe she is untouchable and invincible as no one has been able to even land a blow on her in her combat career. Even without her semblance she has shown the ability to quickly and easily adapt to her combat situation and analyze her opponents while fighting and changing tactics to suit the situation she is in. She has shown extreme accuracy, being able to hit moving targets from hundreds of meters away and strike vital weak points on an opponent mid-combat both with and without the aid of her semblance. She is also highly skilled at using her weapon's multiple forms in combat, being able to switch between forms several times in rapid succession to both deliver rapid attacks and counter others simultaneously.
Then theres Mercury. Mercury is a veritable master of close combat, having spent his entire life training in pure martial combat to make up for his Semblance being stolen by his father. He is shown to be a very acrobatic and agile fighter who relies upon quickly overpowering his opponent with complex kicks that imply a near-mastery of martial arts that resemble Tae-Kwon-Do. He is also capable of a break-dancing style, similar to Capoeira, and makes use of Muay Thai as well. Despite his focus on kicks, Mercury also uses his hands to grapple, block or redirect enemy attacks. His experience and skill are aggressive and effective enough to drive even fighters of a high caliber, like Pyrrha, into a defensive position, with Word of God confirming that Mercury would defeat her if he fought her seriously. Due to his fighting style, Mercury relies on his swift and quick reflexes to counter and block his opponent's attacks as first demonstrated during his fight with Yang Xiao Long, altering the course of her punches and using his footwork to raise her fists and kick underneath or around her attacks. Despite the presumed awkwardness of his weapon's ranged capabilities he is a skilled marksman, able to shoot a phone out of a person's hand from a good distance away, and is proficient at using the many different forms of projectiles at his disposal to keep his opponents off balance. Mercury is also known to be observant, tactical, and analytical, able to notice and deduce the capabilities and limits of Pyrrha's Polarity Semblance after she uses it once during their brief fight, despite Pyrrha using it extremely subtly in combat and having spent her entire life honing her ability to hide her Semblance and its mechanics from her opponents and the general public.
Speed: speed is equal, however ruby can go faster with her semblance and becomes Intangible in this state
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- Thread starter
- #4
My mistake, linked them above.
GoldenScorpions
He/Him- 3,096
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I'm sorry, but how does everything you wrote after the 2nd paragraph (which doesn't mention Ruby) matter to this matchup? We aren't talking about Pyrrha or Mercury here
Popted2
He/Him- 8,550
- 4,399
basically Ruby is on par on Pyrrha and Mercury, and can even fight people on par on them
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- Thread starter
- #8
Given no one is around to defend Grimgor at the moment, I'll give a crack at giving an overview of Grimgor's physical capability.
Grimgor's weapon has NPI, which interacts with NEP2 levels of Intangibility so Ruby's intangibility shouldn't be an issue, plus he has much experience fighting much more flighty enemies than usual (like Waystalkers, and other strong archer classes), and is very with his resistance to literally any kind of hax to the point where Warhammer Mages can't hax him. Verse Equalization does apply in this case because magic in Warhammer is simply warping reality to create hax, so Aethyr Manipulation resistance is generalized.
Chasing enemies that prefer range over close combat is something Grimgor is no stranger to given his large experience of fighting many of the Old World's warriors. His own Rage Power that continues to grow as he fights makes him stronger and faster, as well as enhances his pain resistance.
And while I do appreciate the scaling chain, Grimgor's skill is quite literally far above anything RWBY has to offer, with the ability to heavily outskill fighters that should logically outskill him with implausibly high years of training, experience, and mental skill in fighting. This is more or less the chain.
Grimgor >= Crom the Conqueror > High Elf Lord = Grail Knight Kruber = Vampire Lord = Generic Chaos Champion >= Shade Kerillian > Base Ubersreik V >>> Saurus Warriors = Generic Daemons of Chaos = Generic Black Orcs
At the bottom of the chain are people who can make fodder out of trained soldiers. Saurus Warriors and Temple Guard are no slouches as they are quite literally born with the ability to fight and innate knowledge of Martial Arts and Instinctive Reactions, born and bred solely for the purpose of war. Regular Daemons like Bloodletters have strong Analytical Prediction via Witchsight, and are generally also incredibly strong fighters, especially those like Bloodletters, who spend much of their life killing in the Realm of Chaos. Keep in mind this insane level of skill is only baseline for Warhammer fodder.
Moving up to the Ubersreik Five, they quite literally have killed hundreds of monsters that are superior to the warriors below and are skilled at contending with foes like Chaos Champions, who often gather around hundreds to thousands of years of experience fighting in the Chaos Wastes/Realm of Chaos before they can rise through the ranks.
High Elf Lords and Vampire Lords have the benefit of centuries or even millennia of experience depending on the individual, and are only second to named characters in terms of skill. Killing armies worth of opponents is quite literally Tuesday for the lords of Warhammer, and even then those like Crom and Grimgor fodderize those who fodderize the other heroes below.
Crom himself is Archaon's second, and is logically superior to fellow martial masters in the form of Chaos Champions who fight for long periods of time in the Realm of Chaos, and himself is a user of strong Analytical Prediction via Witchsight, and makes a mockery of even the skilled warriors I've already mentioned. He had everything on paper to stomp Grimgor, yet Grimgor fought him to a standstill.
In short, Grimgor's nearly the cream of the crop in terms of how skilled 1v1 fighters can be in Warhammer, surpassed by only more insane warriors who fodderize even more insane creatures in Warhammer. Grimgor is able to fight superior to heroes that on paper had the advantage of precognition, superior training, experience, reactions, and intelligence, and still come out on top cause he's DA BEZT.
Grimgor's weapon has NPI, which interacts with NEP2 levels of Intangibility so Ruby's intangibility shouldn't be an issue, plus he has much experience fighting much more flighty enemies than usual (like Waystalkers, and other strong archer classes), and is very with his resistance to literally any kind of hax to the point where Warhammer Mages can't hax him. Verse Equalization does apply in this case because magic in Warhammer is simply warping reality to create hax, so Aethyr Manipulation resistance is generalized.
Chasing enemies that prefer range over close combat is something Grimgor is no stranger to given his large experience of fighting many of the Old World's warriors. His own Rage Power that continues to grow as he fights makes him stronger and faster, as well as enhances his pain resistance.
And while I do appreciate the scaling chain, Grimgor's skill is quite literally far above anything RWBY has to offer, with the ability to heavily outskill fighters that should logically outskill him with implausibly high years of training, experience, and mental skill in fighting. This is more or less the chain.
Grimgor >= Crom the Conqueror > High Elf Lord = Grail Knight Kruber = Vampire Lord = Generic Chaos Champion >= Shade Kerillian > Base Ubersreik V >>> Saurus Warriors = Generic Daemons of Chaos = Generic Black Orcs
At the bottom of the chain are people who can make fodder out of trained soldiers. Saurus Warriors and Temple Guard are no slouches as they are quite literally born with the ability to fight and innate knowledge of Martial Arts and Instinctive Reactions, born and bred solely for the purpose of war. Regular Daemons like Bloodletters have strong Analytical Prediction via Witchsight, and are generally also incredibly strong fighters, especially those like Bloodletters, who spend much of their life killing in the Realm of Chaos. Keep in mind this insane level of skill is only baseline for Warhammer fodder.
Moving up to the Ubersreik Five, they quite literally have killed hundreds of monsters that are superior to the warriors below and are skilled at contending with foes like Chaos Champions, who often gather around hundreds to thousands of years of experience fighting in the Chaos Wastes/Realm of Chaos before they can rise through the ranks.
High Elf Lords and Vampire Lords have the benefit of centuries or even millennia of experience depending on the individual, and are only second to named characters in terms of skill. Killing armies worth of opponents is quite literally Tuesday for the lords of Warhammer, and even then those like Crom and Grimgor fodderize those who fodderize the other heroes below.
Crom himself is Archaon's second, and is logically superior to fellow martial masters in the form of Chaos Champions who fight for long periods of time in the Realm of Chaos, and himself is a user of strong Analytical Prediction via Witchsight, and makes a mockery of even the skilled warriors I've already mentioned. He had everything on paper to stomp Grimgor, yet Grimgor fought him to a standstill.
In short, Grimgor's nearly the cream of the crop in terms of how skilled 1v1 fighters can be in Warhammer, surpassed by only more insane warriors who fodderize even more insane creatures in Warhammer. Grimgor is able to fight superior to heroes that on paper had the advantage of precognition, superior training, experience, reactions, and intelligence, and still come out on top cause he's DA BEZT.
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GoldenScorpions
He/Him- 3,096
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Okay, but what was described was what these other characters can do and their feats, not what Ruby herself can do. On their profiles, it's mentioned how both Pyrrha and Mercury are quite stronger than Ruby (for Mercury it states "significantly stronger"). All I'm getting is that Ruby has experience fighting opponents with Extrasensory Perception, Martial Arts, and Attack Reflection, and those that are good at analyzing the battlefield.
GoldenScorpions
He/Him- 3,096
- 1,270
Since Saurus Warriors have instinctive reactions, shouldn't Grimgor also have that?
Spinoirr
He/Him- 16,122
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"Given no one is around to defend Grimgor at the moment, I'll give a crack at giving an overview of Grimgor's physical capability."
I have no idea why this guy was even allowed, from both your description and the claims of other knowledgeable members on warhammer he flat out skill stomps literally everyone in this tourney
"Okay, but what was described was what these other characters can do and their feats, not what Ruby herself can do. On their profiles, it's mentioned how both Pyrrha and Mercury are quite stronger than Ruby (for Mercury it states "significantly stronger"). All I'm getting is that Ruby has experience fighting opponents with Extrasensory Perception, Martial Arts, and Attack Reflection, and those that are good at analyzing the battlefield."
Ruby in this key can match mercury and Pyrrha in cqc skill. Pyrrha and Mercury are stronger than ruby's first key, not the key being used.
I have no idea why this guy was even allowed, from both your description and the claims of other knowledgeable members on warhammer he flat out skill stomps literally everyone in this tourney
"Okay, but what was described was what these other characters can do and their feats, not what Ruby herself can do. On their profiles, it's mentioned how both Pyrrha and Mercury are quite stronger than Ruby (for Mercury it states "significantly stronger"). All I'm getting is that Ruby has experience fighting opponents with Extrasensory Perception, Martial Arts, and Attack Reflection, and those that are good at analyzing the battlefield."
Ruby in this key can match mercury and Pyrrha in cqc skill. Pyrrha and Mercury are stronger than ruby's first key, not the key being used.
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- Thread starter
- #12
I normally wouldn't allow Grimgor but this isn't a bracket, so Grimgor at best is only a free point, and can't stomp his way up the matches, frankly putting him against Ruby is a good way to get him out of the way as well.
Spinoirr
He/Him- 16,122
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I'm pretty sure he can via shear skill alone
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Yeah from what I can tell, these are one off fights so having Grimgor go into this, this early, only means he can't be used later
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- #15
I mean with the current tourney rules, he literally can't stomp his way through. Team B used him so he can't be used anymore.
Spinoirr
He/Him- 16,122
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How so?
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This isn't round based, he isn't fighting anyone else, everyone is a one off, that's why we vote on who goes next
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- #18
I should have clarified this in the rules but when a character fights, they can only fight once. So since we've already had Jaune and Alfred fight, they can't fight anymore. Same with Grimgor and Ruby. This is meant to emulate the Records of Ragnarok tournament format.
GoldenScorpions
He/Him- 3,096
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Yes, Grimgor surpasses most others in terms of experience, but that's not everything there is to combat. From what I see, his biggest asset, aside from skill, is resisting most hax and status effects. Otherwise, he doesn't have a lot of versatility for his offensive arsenal, it's mainly raw strength, so I don't doubt there can be some High 8-C matchups he can lose.
For this current matchup, I don't think Grimgor stomps Ruby, because her arsenal is pretty good, but I do think he wins.
Also, what the others said about the tourney rules.
Spinoirr
He/Him- 16,122
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"Verse Equalization does apply in this case because magic in Warhammer is simply warping reality to create hax, so Aethyr Manipulation resistance is generalized."
Why would verse equalization apply here? Ruby's elemental ammo isn't magic or reality warping based, it's natural energy. Magic already exists in rwby and it works completely different from stuff like Dust.
Why would verse equalization apply here? Ruby's elemental ammo isn't magic or reality warping based, it's natural energy. Magic already exists in rwby and it works completely different from stuff like Dust.
Spinoirr
He/Him- 16,122
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Yeah basically, as dust is a natural resource that just has element powers
GoldenScorpions
He/Him- 3,096
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But it's still a type of energy, right? Magic isn't the only type of energy in Warhammer and, from what I'm reading, Grimgor can resist the various energies of the verse. If Grimgor only resisted magic, sure, but that's not the case. That's why verse equalization is applicable.
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Warhammer Fantasy magic is basically making something happen by manipulating reality. So when you make a fireball, it's a real fireball. When you manipulate time, you're actually doing regular Time Manipulation. When you throw lightning, it's real lightning and not magical. Reality warping is only a means to an end, the hax itself is generic supernatural rather than magic-based or reality warping based as you phrased it.
"Reality-warping" based is only the way the hax comes to life, the hax itself is basically generic supernatural stuff and generally applicable.
"Reality-warping" based is only the way the hax comes to life, the hax itself is basically generic supernatural stuff and generally applicable.
GoldenScorpions
He/Him- 3,096
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I'll vote for Grimgor for now.
His combat experience and skill far surpasses Ruby's, I highly doubt he can be beaten in cqc considering who he scales from, his two stat amps can increase the gap in strength, his resistances allow him to bypass several of Ruby's status effects, his stamina is far superior, and having Type 2 immortality helps him to continue fighting even more despite injuries.
His combat experience and skill far surpasses Ruby's, I highly doubt he can be beaten in cqc considering who he scales from, his two stat amps can increase the gap in strength, his resistances allow him to bypass several of Ruby's status effects, his stamina is far superior, and having Type 2 immortality helps him to continue fighting even more despite injuries.
Spinoirr
He/Him- 16,122
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Okay then it should be closed as it's a massive stomp in grimgor's favor seeing as he apparently resists everything in Ruby's arsenal, has passive amps that would make him stronger than ruby, has immortality that basically nopes Ruby's weapon, and skillstomps her to hell and back
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That's alright then, we can just move the tourney forward.
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Also just to clarify, in Warhammer Fantasy, there is warpstone which is basically dust from RWBY just more volatile, and it still falls under these resistances even if it's a more natural resource
