Questions regarding fate manipulation, acausality and speed

[Adam1396]

I have a few question. I was told I should ask here. Questions are:
1. Is fate manipulation time dependant? Or is it reliant on the existence of time? As far I understand fate can exist in a timeless world as well.

2. Ichibei brings darkness from future century into present. And darkness manipulation is his core move.
Yhwach can attack through future, rewrite, and bring effect into present as well. We saw yhwach broke ichigo's zankpakuto in future and it simply appears in his hand.
Doesn’t both case qualify for immeasurable attack speed considering hax mechanism as well.

3. Does predating the universe or it's laws grant acasuality type 4?

 

[Berga14]

Is fate manipulation time dependant? Or is it reliant on the existence of time?

Normally it isn't, but i guess that it could be in some verses.

Doesn’t both case qualify for immeasurable attack speed considering hax mechanism as well.

It's an ability, not his speed.

Does predating the universe or it's laws grant acasuality type 4?

Not necessarily, but predating something is used as supporting evidence for some abilities (like nonduality).
So i guess if it's stated that between those "laws" there is cause and effect you can open a debate for aca 4 or even 5 (5 only with more context to it)

 

[Adam1396]

Normally it isn't,

Can you explain

but i guess that it could be in some verses.

For example? I see people think time manipulation can neg fate manipulation which i find illogical and characters unaffected by time can not be fate haxed since they have no future. Though future is entangled with fate, you can see that in the wiki page. I find no correlation between time (future) and fate in literal sense.

It's an ability, not his speed.

It's his darkness speed I suppose. And nobody scales to that.
He is still attacking through future. Albeit it doesn’t scale to his movement speed bit attack speed. Hence we also have infinite attack speed for yhwach with x axis.

Not necessarily, but predating something is used as supporting evidence for some abilities (like nonduality).
So i guess if it's stated that between those "laws" there is cause and effect you can open a debate for aca 4 or even 5 (5 only with more context to it)

Laws obviously involves cause and effect. If the laws are changed, obviously causality system would change as well.
For example, what would be ichibei's case who existed prior the existence of current laws and worlds?

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

1. What Berga said is correct. It's not necessarily Acausality. The other problem is, we've seen that Ichibē can counter the Almighty only with Pernida. Otherwise he'd get lol noped. Causality still applies to him.

2. The Almighty's future rewriting isn't 'traveling through time" in the way it'd qualify for Immeasurable. It's more akin to Temporal AoE. Also yeah, we usually don't give speed ratings to abilities.

 

[Wikisource]

I have a few question. I was told I should ask here. Questions are:
1. Is fate manipulation time dependant? Or is it reliant on the existence of time? As far I understand fate can exist in a timeless world as well.

Depends on the verse.

2. Ichibei brings darkness from future century into present. And darkness manipulation is his core move.
Yhwach can attack through future, rewrite, and bring effect into present as well. We saw yhwach broke ichigo's zankpakuto in future and it simply appears in his hand.
Doesn’t both case qualify for immeasurable attack speed considering hax mechanism as well.

That's just 4-D haxes.

3. Does predating the universe or it's laws grant acasuality type 4?

Not necessarily if there are no futher context.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

2. The Almighty's future rewriting isn't 'traveling through time" in the way it'd qualify for Immeasurable. It's more akin to Temporal AoE. Also yeah, we usually don't give speed ratings to abilities.

yea its basically just determining an effect over another to happen in the future rather than an ability that travels through time via sheer speed

 

[Berga14]

Can you explain

For example? I see people think time manipulation can neg fate manipulation which i find illogical and characters unaffected by time can not be fate haxed since they have no future. Though future is entangled with fate, you can see that in the wiki page. I find no correlation between time (future) and fate in literal sense.

It's his darkness speed I suppose. And nobody scales to that.
He is still attacking through future. Albeit it doesn’t scale to his movement speed bit attack speed. Hence we also have infinite attack speed for yhwach with x axis.

Laws obviously involves cause and effect. If the laws are changed, obviously causality system would change as well.
For example, what would be ichibei's case who existed prior the existence of current laws and worlds?

I can't really answer as i don't know anything about Bleach

 

[AyeZ2]

Nah gng he doesn’t have immeasurable speed