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Question about Qualitative superiority?

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It is superiority over lesser things that involves no element of quantity, or amount, in any manner whatsoever. It, instead, hinges entirely on the nature of the character's existence and ontology. In general, all characters with such superiority over lesser things are 1-A.
Qualitative superiority, simply put, means a higher reality implies a "qualitative" transcendence that cannot be compensated for by "quantity".

So, if "reality A" considers a "4D structure - reality B" as a dream, a fictional story, an illusion, non-existent, or a shadow of a Platonic concept... and other forms implying "unreality," would "reality A" be at Tier 1A by qualitative superiority?
 
It is superiority over lesser things that involves no element of quantity, or amount, in any manner whatsoever. It, instead, hinges entirely on the nature of the character's existence and ontology. In general, all characters with such superiority over lesser things are 1-A.
Qualitative superiority, simply put, means a higher reality implies a "qualitative" transcendence that cannot be compensated for by "quantity".

So, if "reality A" considers a "4D structure - reality B" as a dream, a fictional story, an illusion, non-existent, or a shadow of a Platonic concept... and other forms implying "unreality," would "reality A" be at Tier 1A by qualitative superiority?
Tecnically yes but there should be no anti feats.
 
Initially when reality B "had not yet evolved", reality A considered reality B as "not yet born" and could not prove the existence of reality B, but after reality B evolved with energy from a higher dimension, reality A became aware of reality B.
What do you mean with "unborn"?
 
Initially when reality B "had not yet evolved", reality A considered reality B as "not yet born" and could not prove the existence of reality B, but after reality B evolved with energy from a higher dimension, reality A became aware of reality B.
No 1A here.
 
More specifically: The A realms consider the B realms as "unborn" and cannot prove the existence of B, which at this point has not yet evolved. But after B is evolved into one of the A realms by an energy that exists everywhere in the C realm and the C realm contains both the A and the B realms, the A realms perceive the B realm as having just evolved into an A realm. And this newly evolved B realm cannot prove the existence of another unborn B realm and considers the other unborn B realms as "unborn".
No 1A here.
 
Cuase simply not perceving something isn't a R>F. Also i guess you are talking about bubble worlds and the Silver sea (based on the unborn thing and your pfp) and well, the entire concept of fire dew is basically an anti feat for 1A.
Silver Bubble considers the Bubble World as never born, meaning it does not exist (impossible to prove its existence), then here it is:

As for Fire Dew, it is a Silver Sea order and does not belong to any bubble, can you explain why Fire Dew is an anti-feat?
"That understanding is fine, but the fire dew belongs to no one. It is an order in the Silver Sea. The fire dew is something that travels across the sea and through various bubbles."
 
In addition, Fire Dew exists everywhere in Silver Sea.
Fire dew wouldn't be a anti fear if it was 1A in itself, but in that case you need to prove a r>f first and perceving something as non existent/not born/not evolved isn't a r>f in itself. Also even those bubble worlds have fire dew even when they aren't evolved, they just keep leaking it. So no, i don't think mgk will be 1A via R>F, maybe a bde2 is fasible somehow (but idk, my knowledge of this verse is superficial).
 
Fire dew wouldn't be a anti fear if it was 1A in itself, but in that case you need to prove a r>f first and perceving something as non existent/not born/not evolved isn't a r>f in itself. Also even those bubble worlds have fire dew even when they aren't evolved, they just keep leaking it. So no, i don't think mgk will be 1A via R>F, maybe a bde2 is fasible somehow (but idk, my knowledge of this verse is superficial).
I understand, MGK itself doesn't have R>F so it can't be upgraded to 1A by R>F. But I want to upgrade MGK to 1A through "Qualitative superiority" for the above reason.
 
Fire dew wouldn't be a anti fear if it was 1A in itself, but in that case you need to prove a r>f first and perceving something as non existent/not born/not evolved isn't a r>f in itself. Also even those bubble worlds have fire dew even when they aren't evolved, they just keep leaking it. So no, i don't think mgk will be 1A via R>F, maybe a bde2 is fasible somehow (but idk, my knowledge of this verse is superficial).
Currently, I have not seen anywhere that mentions that if reality A considers reality B as "non-existent", then reality A has "Qualitative superiority". But in terms of "Qualitative superiority", it is a difference in terms of the nature of existence, so I think the difference between reality A and reality B as above is enough to help reality A have "Qualitative superiority".
 
MGK itself doesn't have R>F so it can't be upgraded to 1A by R>F. But I want to upgrade MGK to 1A through "Qualitative superiority" for the above reason.
R>F is qualitative superiority... R stands for Reality and F for Fiction.
But in terms of "Qualitative superiority", it is a difference in terms of the nature of existence, so I think the difference between reality A and reality B as above is enough to help reality A have "Qualitative superiority".
Can you reprase this? I didn't really understand what you sayd.
 
Also even those bubble worlds have fire dew even when they aren't evolved, they just keep leaking it
The fact that the Bubble World has Fire Dew when it has not evolved is not an anti-feat because:
1. Fire Dew exists everywhere in the Silver Sea and does not belong to any bubble
2. Fire Dew is an Order so it existed before the Bubble World was born
3. The Order of the Silver Sea is that Fire Dew flows from above down, passing through the shallow layer it will continue to seep down to the deep layer, the more it seeps down, the more fire mist there is so the deeper layer will be stronger (imagine it like an hourglass)
4. The reason the Bubble World has Fire Dew is because it takes Fire Dew from the Silver Sea - the power of the Silver Sea itself (the largest structure in the verse)
 
R>F is qualitative superiority... R stands for Reality and F for Fiction.

Can you reprase this? I didn't really understand what you sayd.
As the term "Qualitative superiority" says: hinges entirely on the nature of the character's existence and ontology. So I think the difference between reality A (which has the nature of existence) and reality B (which has the nature of non-existence) as above is enough to give reality A "Qualitative superiority".
 
I think R>F is just a part of the term "Qualitative superiority"
Qualitative superiority is a difference by quality where the superior element has a quality that the lesser element doesn't have. R>f is a kind of qualitative superiority. Another kind is the second type or bde2. The thing you sayd didn't really made sense to me but it was exactly wrong.
hinges entirely on the nature of the character's existence and ontology. So I think the difference between reality A (which has the nature of existence) and reality B (which has the nature of non-existence) as above is enough to give reality A "Qualitative superiority".
Just saying that some is existence and anither non-existence when the difference between the 2 is just the quantity of fire dew and the absence of the chief god isn't a qualitative difference. Also the statamemts that seys that is impossible to prove the existence of the bubble is weird in its contexts so i will not take it into consideration without a proper translation. Alse the non existente thing is just a point of view thing, idk how to andle those thing but i'm quite sure that it isn't a qulitative difference.
 
the absence of the chief god
Whether or not there is a "Chief God" should not be considered an anti-feat, because when a bubble world like Militia world has Eques - Chief God but Militia World is still a bubble world even if Anos defeated Eques
 
Also the statamemts that seys that is impossible to prove the existence of the bubble is weird in its contexts so i will not take it into consideration without a proper translatio
Of course we'll have to wait for the official translation, but it looks like it'll be a few years :)
 
idk how to andle those thing but i'm quite sure that it isn't a qulitative difference.
I believe it is possible, but this wiki does not explain what other ways to achieve "Qualitative superiority" other than R>F so I am a bit confused
 
It is superiority over lesser things that involves no element of quantity, or amount, in any manner whatsoever. It, instead, hinges entirely on the nature of the character's existence and ontology. In general, all characters with such superiority over lesser things are 1-A.
Qualitative superiority, simply put, means a higher reality implies a "qualitative" transcendence that cannot be compensated for by "quantity".

So, if "reality A" considers a "4D structure - reality B" as a dream, a fictional story, an illusion, non-existent, or a shadow of a Platonic concept... and other forms implying "unreality," would "reality A" be at Tier 1A by qualitative superiority?
onIy and onIy if there are no anti-feats, it can be 1-A
However, just so you know, anti-feats incIude the foIIowing:
  • Any kind if interaction between the 1-A and Non 1-A
    • If the 1-A is interacting with Non 1-A, it must be through a metaphysicaI, generaIIy dimension-Iess or metaphysicaI, power that aIIows the 1-A to effect the non 1-A things; otherwise under normaI circumstances, it is not possibIe
      • Under normaI circumstances, in cases of Fantacy type settings, something Iike normaI speII or magic from a 1-A entity destroying a Non 1-A construct without the magic having some cIear speciaI circumstances to be abIe to do so
    • The Non 1-A cannot interact with 1-A at aII, and even indirectIy harming the 1-A onIy comes via the heIp of another 1-A Power source or entity
  • TraveI from Non 1-A to 1-A ReaIms
    • UnIess its such a case where the ascension invoIves the heIp of another 1-A, or descension that invoIves not Iosing numeric chunks of your power, its an Anti-feat
    • However, a non 1-A simpIy entering a 1-A reaIm through some gate or portaI without the composite physiology of the originaI Non 1-A being getting changed is aIso an anti-feat; The change in PhysioIogy shouId aIso be made pretty cIear and not just assumed as the defauIt answer to an assuming scenario
 
Initially when reality B "had not yet evolved", reality A considered reality B as "not yet born" and could not prove the existence of reality B, but after reality B evolved with energy from a higher dimension, reality A became aware of reality B.
First, pIease note that 1-A things are not higher-dimensions, so addressing them as such can be very misIeading
SecondIy, regarding the question itseIf, it depends on whether the energy is quaIitative or quantitative in nature, whether it exists in a singIe worId or throughout muItipIe worIds
However, in generaI, something Iike X-worId taking energy from its neighboring worIds/universes and thus becoming strong enough to ascend to a higher pIane is a cIear and direct anti-feat
 
I believe it is possible, but this wiki does not explain what other ways to achieve "Qualitative superiority" other than R>F so I am a bit confused
Might just be that you didn't read this part of the FAQ?

Q: What is "qualitative superiority"?​

A: To put it simply: It is superiority over lesser things that involves no element of quantity, or amount, in any manner whatsoever. It, instead, hinges entirely on the nature of the character's existence and ontology. In general, all characters with such superiority over lesser things are 1-A.

To better understand the concept, consider the fact that all tiers from 11-C to Low 1-A can ultimately be bridged together by summing up smaller things, and can likewise be decomposed down into these smaller constituents. For example, a mathematical space with an inaccessible cardinal's worth of dimensions (Well into High 1-B+) is reducible to the individual elements comprising it, each of which is a 0-dimensional point.

An example of the same principle can be seen in the Tychonoff cube: Given the unit interval [0,1] (A 1-dimensional object) and an arbitrary cardinal number κ, one can represent by [0,1]^κ the generalization of the unit interval to κ-many dimensions. In English: If we had a line segment of length 1, and multiplied it by itself, an inaccessible cardinal's worth of times, the result would be a Tychonoff cube of inaccessibly-many dimensions. A 11-B object can be multiplied by itself in order to net a High 1-B+ object. This continuity between the two, where a larger object can be expressed as a composition of many smaller objects, is what makes the gap between these tiers quantitative.

A character that holds a qualitative superiority over lesser things, however, represents a full discrete jump from everything that came before. They reside in a greater mode of existence entirely, being irreducible to anything that lies in the lower state of existence.

This inaccessibility possessed by qualitatively superior characters and realms can also be expressed in terms of sheer ontology, generally speaking. That is to say: They are fundamentally different from the nature of the lower reality, and this different nature is precisely the source of their superiority over it. Since their "otherness" is identical to their transcendence, no expansion or extension of the lower reality and anything in it can possibly attain to them, as long as it maintains its particular nature. Put it simply: They are as powerful as they are alien.

Q: Are there any disqualifiers for qualitative superiority?​

A: The potential disqualifiers largely revolve around the aforementioned aspect of inaccessibility: A qualitative superiority is completely irreducible to anything lesser than itself, and conversely, it cannot be reached by any additive process whatsoever.

The first practical effect of this fact is that the power of a 1-A character cannot be dispersed so much that it reaches into a lower tier. Since there is no conceivable extension of any lower tier that can yield equality to a 1-A structure, neither can there be any subdivision (Even an infinite subdivision) of 1-A that reduces down into such tiers. Unless, of course, this division is somehow non-quantitative in nature (i.e. The results of the division are not actually numerical "chunks" of the character's power); however, this should be made reasonably clear by statements or through background context.

Secondly, a 1-A level cannot be attained by a process in which the lower level quantitatively "adds up" to itself to break through into the higher one, due to the total lack of structural continuity between the two; the higher level cannot be attained, nor expressed by, any expansions of the lower one, and therefore things from the latter cannot interfere with the former by means of their own lower existences. Put simply: A non-1-A cannot reach the level of 1-A by appealing to another non-1-A

However, there are ways to bypass this barrier. For example, a non-1-A can be empowered by a higher entity into being able to influence things on a qualitatively superior level. This can happen either by a straightforward power boost, or by means of some innate metaphysical potential rooted in something from a higher reality (This can include both characters who are converted into natives of higher planes and characters who are physically lower-dimensional but have 1-A statistics). In neither case is the capability to reach into the higher level something emergent from the structure of the lower level, and therefore they are acceptable ways to get around the above hurdles.

Furthermore, since the "lack of continuity" that exists between the higher level and the lower one is structural, and not causal, there can potentially be more unorthodox ways of bypassing the 1-A barrier. For example: Things that don't have anything to do with raw power, but just a general transfer/exposure of information between one level and another. Another example could be cosmologies where a higher level originates from the thoughts/beliefs/etc of inhabitants of a lower level; while these thoughts literally originating within the lower reality and then somehow "floating away" to form a higher one would be a disqualifier, no anti-feat is present if the verse has it so these operations simply already exist in a higher reality.

On the matter of power sources: That would depend on the nature of the power source itself. For example, a common trope in fiction is power sources that, so to speak, are "for the taking," meaning they are naturally self-diffusive and don't offer any resistance whatsoever to being tapped into, as being utilized in such a way is in their nature. Drawing power from such sources is obviously not actually an anti-feat for them being 1-A, especially so if they are depicted as naturally connected to, and united with, the beings that tap into them.

However, if the "power source" in question consists in a lower character literally overwhelming a would-be 1-A object with their own abilities and forcibly absorbing it into themselves, then that constitutes an anti-feat, unless the occasion falls under the stipulations above.

Note, also, the pertinence of Plot-Induced Stupidity and similar factors when weighing out whether certain showings are valid disqualifiers. Overall, it depends entirely on a combination of the nature of the showings themselves, their importance, and the verse's general insistence on the transcendence of the realm being interacted with. Individual analysis is to be employed for each particular case.
 
First, pIease note that 1-A things are not higher-dimensions, so addressing them as such can be very misIeading
SecondIy, regarding the question itseIf, it depends on whether the energy is quaIitative or quantitative in nature, whether it exists in a singIe worId or throughout muItipIe worIds
However, in generaI, something Iike X-worId taking energy from its neighboring worIds/universes and thus becoming strong enough to ascend to a higher pIane is a cIear and direct anti-feat
Fire Dew - energy from the largest structure verse (the structure containing all realities A and B in the example above) and exists throughout realities
 
Fire Dew - energy from the largest structure verse (the structure containing all realities A and B in the example above) and exists throughout realities
That itseIf presents probIems because something Iike a universaI energy system throughout muItipIe reaIities generaIIy disquaIifies quaIitative superiority as it uItimateIy Ieads to a quantitative comparison between said reaIities

I think an example of this are the Layers from Magi: Adventures of Sinbad
The verse has a pretty good ReaIity-fiction hierarchy where the higher Layer sees the Lower ones as fiction/story/nonexistent, except that in that hierarchy, there is a universal energy system, caIIed Rukh iirc, that disqualifies the qualitative transcendence between them due to how it works in-verse
Part 2 is just some notes about anti-feat
It does have some quaIifiers stated to, if you read carefuIIy enough:
Furthermore, since the "lack of continuity" that exists between the higher level and the lower one is structural, and not causal, there can potentially be more unorthodox ways of bypassing the 1-A barrier. For example: Things that don't have anything to do with raw power, but just a general transfer/exposure of information between one level and another. Another example could be cosmologies where a higher level originates from the thoughts/beliefs/etc of inhabitants of a lower level; while these thoughts literally originating within the lower reality and then somehow "floating away" to form a higher one would be a disqualifier, no anti-feat is present if the verse has it so these operations simply already exist in a higher reality.
AIternativeIy, if A and B are two structures, they have have quaIitative superiority under the pretext of no anti-feats if:
  • Either A or B is a Nonexistent Void that simuItaneousIy encompasses the other one and is thus treated as superior to it
  • A/B Iacks physicaIity or is some conceptuaI domain yet somehow superior to physicaI reaIity B/A, commonIy shown via a non-quantitative size difference of one encompassing the other
  • A or B transcend the concept of Space and Time of the IeveI Iower than it so much so that a residence from the higher reaIity cannot even enter the Iower reaIity
 
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