Question about fate manipulation for Bleach characters.

[EldemadeDityjon]

I'm not good with English please don't mind some grammar mistakes.

I am gonna get straight into the point.

There are some Transcended beings in bleach

1.Soul King
2.Yhwach
3.ichigo
4.Aizen
5.Hikane

Its pretty clear by novels defeating Transcended beings is only possible by another Transcended beings by all the statements.

1. Yhwach even scared of Ichigo Bankai which he broke it in an instant. We know Almighty can't be negated by any other power than fate manipulation because it's more of an Acausal thing. At the end of the series Yhwach regained his power even after cutted down by Ichigo and had time to have small talk. But it's pretty clear he couldn't regenerate or alter the future. His corpse is still used as new lincpin.

We have seen Yhwach Manipulating fate of others and he claimed Ichigo and him has same kinda of power and Ichigo changes the future in present where Yhwach changes future in future.

Also there is a statement of Yhwach stating Ichigo may create a new future.

2.Aizen put Yhwach under hypnosis which even affected Yhwach future sight. Aizen himself states he didn't know about it can even alter that.

3.We have seen Aizen destroying the Cleaner which governs space time and Being surpassed reason. Same goes for Ichigo who destroys Hado 90 which warps space time. Like Aizen and Ichigo manipulating their own fate.

CFYOW states Aizen can win against Hikane if he wishes it. Same goes for Ichigo stated Aizen probably lost because deep down. He may wishes it.

4. About Kenpachi his. Desire to cut everything gave him the power to cut thru Garald shield.

Its pretty clear Yhwach only scared of Ichigo Abilities. And EOS it's clear Ichigo desire to cut down Yhwach made Yhwach power useless. Its clearly stated still silver only stops Yhwach powers for an instant but next moment Ichigo cutted him down. Even though his powers were back.

Doens't it looks like Ichigo created a seperate future or altered the path to a future where Yhwach dies. Because we seen Yhwach coming back from death by altering his future.
It doesn't make sense because he still regained his power at the end.

Does this count as probability Manipulation for Transcended beings.

 

[Loyd]

Would be nice if you added scans for these statements.

We know Almighty can't be negated by any other power than fate manipulation because it's more of an Acausal thing.

?
the arrow can temporarily negate it and aizen hypnosis could to an extent (because he mind hax yhwach pre almighty and given its mechanics its difficult for him to find the real future to null aizen/ichigo)

At the end of the series Yhwach regained his power even after cutted down by Ichigo and had time to have small talk. But it's pretty clear he couldn't regenerate or alter the future.

Its pretty clear Yhwach only scared of Ichigo Abilities. And EOS it's clear Ichigo desire to cut down Yhwach made Yhwach power useless. Its clearly stated still silver only stops Yhwach powers for an instant but next moment Ichigo cutted him down. Even though his powers were back.

Doens't it looks like Ichigo created a seperate future or altered the path to a future where Yhwach dies. Because we seen Yhwach coming back from death by altering his future.
It doesn't make sense because he still regained his power at the end.

the arrows did still stop the almighty long enough his irises weren't 3 which signifies almighty. i l like to think Ichigo's bankai has an added hax rather then just being more raw ap but thats my headcannon

His corpse is still used as new lincpin.

yep just a corpse had no agency yhwach is comatose afaik.

We have seen Yhwach Manipulating fate of others and he claimed Ichigo and him has same kinda of power and Ichigo changes the future in present where Yhwach changes future in future.

pretty sure its not meant to be taken literally like humanity as a whole(the bleach verse atleast) can change thr future by doing one thing or the other(akin to jumping from different futures as yhwach put), but he can view countless futures and change them as he pleases.

3.We have seen Aizen destroying the Cleaner which governs space time and Being surpassed reason.

given the context of the verse this is most likely hype/flowery language like when they call Yhwach an "omnipotent" opponent.

Same goes for Ichigo who destroys Hado 90 which warps space time. Like Aizen and Ichigo manipulating their own fate.

thats not fate manip, just space time resistance.

CFYOW states Aizen can win against Hikane if he wishes it. Same goes for Ichigo stated Aizen probably lost because deep down. He may wishes it.

think aizen already has probability manip but via the hogyoku.

4. About Kenpachi his. Desire to cut everything gave him the power to cut thru Garald shield.

scan?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Wait a minute is this added to normal thread? I was trying to ask wiki about probability Manipulation.

 

[Loyd]

Q&A section of the VSBWiki think so

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I will look for the scans. I thought it's not necessary for Q&A. but OK thanks for the advice.

I will add the scans later I am kinda busy. But I will drop some points.

the arrows did still stop the almighty long enough his irises weren't 3 which signifies almighty. i l like to think Ichigo's bankai has an added hax rather then just being more raw ap but thats my headcannon.

My point was even though arrow stopped Yhwach power it was stated as just for an instant. Also Yhwach had full power back when he said because of Ichigo the world wouldn't change it's safe. He was able to have a pep talk with Ichigo. He himself stated to alter his future when he gets killed. Beside Ichigo didn't used Getsuga Tenshō his sword changed back to its original form and cutted through Yhwach. I don't know which catagory it relates to but I think Ichigo thought about winning and his desires came true. I mean like you said probably he manipulated Yhwach fate.

?
the arrow can temporarily negate it and aizen hypnosis could to an extent (because he mind hax yhwach pre almighty and given its mechanics its difficult for him to find the real future to null aizen/ichigo).

Wait I will try to find the scans but he stated his power can affect future vision of almighty.

given the context of the verse this is most likely hype/flowery language like when they call Yhwach an "omnipotent" opponent.

You know omnipotent can many things but still databook and manga support its more of cleaner is a being surpassed reason.

thats not fate manip, just space time resistance

I wanted to say cause and effect.

think aizen already has probability manip but via the hogyoku.

That's great

pretty sure its not meant to be taken literally like humanity as a whole(the bleach verse atleast) can change thr future by doing one thing or the other(akin to jumping from different futures as yhwach put), but he can view countless futures and change them as he pleases.

I meant he can manipulate fate of other people and his own fate itself. He scared of Ichigo and breaking his Bankai kinda make sense. Ichigo having fate manipulation/ probability Manipulation.

 

[Loyd]

will look for the scans. I thought it's not necessary for Q&A. but OK thanks for the advice.

Its a personnal preference for me i don't think you really need to for QnA but guess it could help people without knowledge.

I thought of it more like hes mocking ichigo who can manipulate his single future, like technically we could do irl (if you believe in free will atleast) then stating he can see it all and influence them.

I hope they elaborate more on it cause technically ichigo with HoS + GRC can damage him but Yhwach should be able to resurrect by choosing another future everytime hes in peril so its abit odd he decided the best path to deal with ichigo's bankai is nulling it outright.

 

[CalmHill]

So mainly for ichigos fate manip specifically

ichigos power is articulated in “breaking fate” its said in the 0 side story. And is said in the bount arc when he questioned if that’s his power. he is also stated to have the same power as yhwach. Yhwach taunts ichigo to change fate as well. And in the sketches we literally see ichigo break fate just to see

Bleach has infinite possible futures,. The only stated difference between yhwach and others is he sees more.

Also random bit with what yhwach said changing fate is “hope” for humans and Gerard sword is also stated to be made of “hope” which when chipped brings damage. Not dissimilar to yhwach being able to do things through fate.

here’s some of them https://docs.google.com/document/d/119khXTRoacoNmb8YXQEndN7B7LzM7jb1uKnUStmrjnY/edit

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

So mainly for ichigos fate manip specifically

ichigos power is articulated in “breaking fate” its said in the 0 side story. And is said in the bount arc when he questioned if that’s his power. he is also stated to have the same power as yhwach. Yhwach taunts ichigo to change fate as well. And in the sketches we literally see ichigo break fate just to see

Bleach has infinite possible futures,. The only stated difference between yhwach and others is he sees more.

Also random bit with what yhwach said changing fate is “hope” for humans and Gerard sword is also stated to be made of “hope” which when chipped brings damage. Not dissimilar to yhwach being able to do things through fate.

here’s some of them https://docs.google.com/document/d/119khXTRoacoNmb8YXQEndN7B7LzM7jb1uKnUStmrjnY/edit

So Ichigo should get fate manipulation right.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Bump

 

[TokiNoOuja]

Bump