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Possible minor Superman Upgrade

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Paleomario66

Paleomario66

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Post-Crisis Superman is rated at High 4-C for fighting Mageddon, yet there is a durability feat which could possibly make him higher. The feat is here, and the calculation is here.

This would upgrade Superman's durability to Solar System level. It's not too much of a difference, so I don't think it should be an outlier.
 
Ok, the problem that pass throw my mind is that if that planet is that big but has the Earth's gravity, that would mean that the planet's density is the same as hydrogen, what is sound and contradictory unrealistic; other thing is that the lake scaling stuff seems a little weird, but that is just me.

This calc has been posted before, I think that has been debunked but not sure if is true.
 
Antoniofer said:
Ok, the problem that pass throw my mind is that if that planet is that big but has the Earth's gravity, that would mean that the planet's density is the same as hydrogen, what is sound and contradictory unrealistic; other thing is that the lake scaling stuff seems a little weird, but that is just me.
This calc has been posted before, I think that has been debunked but not sure if is true.
Click to expand...
Really? Where was it debunked?
 
Not sure if was debunked, but has been posted several times in the past and any change hasn't been done; but maybe I'm not the one who can answer that, I've been inactive for more than one month due university, so I'm not at time with some recent changes/staff discussions.
 
I think that it was disregarded due to that the sizes of Apocolips and New Genesis are highly inconsistent from writer to writer, and as such it was considered as Calc Stacking.
 
@Matthew

Can you please elaborate on how the sizes of the planets are repeatedly stated to be that great?

Regardless, I think that "Death of the New Gods" has doubtful canonicity, given that it strongly contradicts the established nature of the Source, and the much more prominent Final Crisis event.
 
I don't think the way the event treats the Source should matter given that the discussion is about Superman. It's also worth noting that there is no official description that it is non-canonical, nor that no event from it ever happened. In fact, there is more evidence from the contrary.

Anyway, statements of the size of New Genesis / 4th World:

Size1
New Genesis is stated to be so large that you could throw Earth into one of its small lakes and it would barely affect the waters. I.e, Earth is the size of a pebble compared to New Genesis.

Given that this is the original Jack Kirby definition, this is very reliable.

Size2
Here the planet that New Genesis and Apokolips once were is stated to be larger than the largest star.

Size3
When you go to the 4th World through a Boom Tube, your size gets adjusted to fit the reality there. Here you can see that a planet is the size of Superman's eyeball while he is there.

Size4
Random planet in the 4th World. Dwarfs the sun.

Size5
The statement that their planet dwarfed galaxies.

Even if you downplay it, let us use Jack Kirby's original size:

Since the Earth is stated to be akin to a pebble which wouldn't affect a lake's waters even when thrown at it, let's use 1cm┬│ for the size.

Earth's volume in cm: 1.08321e17 centimeters, Pebble volume: 1 cm

Using this rough calc, it would mean that New Genesis is 1.08321e17 times larger than the Earth. By comparison, the sun is only 1.5 million times larger than the Earth.

Either way you cut it, New Genesis and Apokolips are Solar System+ sized at least.
 
Also, the average adult eye has a volume of roughly 6 cubic centimeters, so that depiction of New Genesis is actually consistent with Kirby's original.
 
Well, my problem is the sheer inconsistency between different writers, but Jack Kirby's original definition should obviously be acceptable, although didn't the scan say that New Genesis and Apocolips were only a fragment of the size of the preceding world?

However, if Superman is rescaled to the same relative size as the new gods via boom tube technology, this may be moot anyway.
 
Irrelevant, because the calc isn't using the "Dwarfed Galaxies" statement. It's using Jack Kirby's original definition.

http://www.narutoforums.com/xfa-blog-entry/superman-tanks-planetary-collision.18296/

Well, if you actually read Endless Mike's blog, you'll see that New Genesis is actually gigantic even to the New Gods themselves. It's not a regular planet to them. Yes, Earth is like a tiny pebble you can throw into a small lake, but that's still just a single lake compared to the entire planet.

"As New Genesis has a mostly Earthlike climate, I figure I can equate the depth of a "small lake" there to the relative size of one on Earth. However, finding the average depth of a "small lake" is pretty difficult, since it's such a vague term.

Eventually I decided to take the shallowest depth in this list of the world's deepest lakes (406 m for Lake Superior) and average it with the depth of what my research indicated is commonly considered to be the world's shallowest lake, Lake Chad, at 11 m. This gives an average depth of 208.5 m. This is probably deeper than the average depth of a "small lake", but the lower this number comes out, the more impressive the calc will be, so I figure it's okay.

The diameter of the Earth is 12,742,000 m, so this lake depth is 1/61,112.70983rd of the planet's diameter. Earth's diameter itself multiplied by 61,112.70983 = 778,698,148.7 km, which should be a good approximation of the diameter of New Genesis. (This is around the size of a hypergiant star). Apokolips is shown and I think stated to be the same size.

Now IIRC there's nothing indicating either New Genesis or Apokolips have surface gravity different from Earth (normal humans have been able to walk on both without noticing any changes in their weight). So plugging the diameter and surface gravity into the planetary parameters calculator, we get a GBE of 5.103e46 joules. Since both planets were destroyed, we need to double this, for a total energy of 1.0206e47 joules, or 24,392,925,430,000 yottatons."

The original calc.
 
Well, okay. If the OBD has accepted the calculation, I suppose that an upgrade is in order then.
 
Superman also threw a compressed Solar System away from Earth:

http://imgur.com/a/D9eD4

While weakened by Red Sunlight Radiation, he survives an explosion that is x50 times more powerful than a Keplar Supernova:

http://imgur.com/a/5fpnT

Survived attacks from the Void Hound, which destroyed 10 Star Systems in one test run:

http://imgur.com/a/ZvaG2

https://i.imgur.com/2gREOpX.jpg|

Classic feat, absorbed enough anti-sunlight energy (Which naturally weakens him as opposed to solar energy) to vapoize half a galaxy:

http://imgur.com/a/aHR4A

Held a mini-black hole in his hands, which would have destroyed an entire Solar System:

http://i.imgur.com/A9qHb7u.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/GGrpYL0.jpg

Endured the gravity of a black hole:

http://i.imgur.com/nBH6Uuo.jpg

So yes, 4-A Superman is much better
 
I think that the half a galaxy feat has to be treared as an outlier, and Black Hole feats in fictio tend to be very unreliable, but 4-B should be fine based on the New Genesis/Apocolips calculation.
 
I prefer 4-A. The Genesis / Apokolips Calc is 4-A, the Half a Galaxy is also 4-A, the compressed Solar System would likely wield 4-A on mass alone, and Void Hound is also a 4-A feat.
 
Also, I really don't approve of just pullying the "Black Holes are unreliable" card and not even trying to analyse the feat. Not accusing you of doing it, but a lot of people take that shortcut.
 
Any non-infinite character surviving a black hole feat automatically makes it unreliable, but okay, if the New Genesis/Apocolips calculation gives a tier 4-A energy result, I suppose that we can use that to scale from.
 
Quick calc of mine for the Compressed Solar System feat:

The sun has a mass of 1.98900e30 kilograms

Assuming a diameter of 50 meters (Clear lowballing here, the sun appears to be much smaller than that)

GBE = 3xGxM┬▓ / 5r

GBE = 3 x 6.67408e-11 x 1.98900e30┬▓ / 250

GBE = 9.50524848e48 joules

That is 4-B.

I can ask Lina Shields to do the proper calculation.
 
It is, just realized. It was ranked at 4-A on OBD because they have quite different standards for Galaxy and Multi-Solar System;
 
Okay. Then I think that we should probably use 4-B for Post-Crisis Superman and the characters scaled from him.
 
I think that it is best if Matthew handles the upgrades, as he is the DC Comics expert.
 
@Matthew Thank you for the help.

@Paleomario Let's wait until all of the edits are done.
 
I have a few questions about one of the feats. The feat here has a contradiction at the bottom of the scan.

Superman 50 supernovas debunk

As you can see here, it says that the radiation would have killed Superman if he touched it. That kind of puts the whole feat into question, unless this came after the explosion.

Also, isn't surviving a black hole unquantifiable? Then why is Superman given the feat of surviving the mini black hole?
 
@Paleomario66

Look a the actual scan. The Supernova explosion =/= The radiation. The second came afterwards.

Also, it doesn't matter if Black Holes are typically inconsistent if the narrative itself treated it as a 4-B feat.
 
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