Persona question.

[kuramamyfav68]

Anyone care to debunk this ( https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/joker-persona-5-vs-xeno-goku.1008493/ ) ?

"is he not outerversal? (I heard he was outer cause of some weird stand persona from him, ill have to dig through dms to find it what he fully said.)

Edit: but as you can tell, im not well versed in persona."

"He is not Outerversal, that is pure nonsense.

The only ""Outerversal"" feats in the entirity of SMT are from a novel with dubious canoncity that is entirely different from the plot of the actual game, said game is also a spin off that has an entirely different cosmology to mainline SMT games and has no relationship whatsoever to Persona, only character that feat should scale to is the Axiom however the canonicity of the novel is extremely dubious and the translation is not from a very trustworthy source.

The other is a single statement from DeSu 2 that mentions the Akashic record trascends the concept of coordinates, which btw is another spin off title with an entirely different cosmology that has no relationship with Persona whatsoever and that statements isn't really proof of Outerversal anyway."

"Eldriavch Shemat said:
I know xeno Goku is a solid multiversal given his fight with Dabura. Not so sure about the Persona 5 character though"

"Haven't played Royale but going based on the OG game he should be planetary with Satanael, potentially universal if you do some weird scaling from crossovers and scaling him to the God tiers on the Persona side of SMT."

"Only if you apply the logic that the final bosses taking control of the collective conscious and using it to warp reality applies to their physical abilities and thus Joker scales from defeating them. Otherwise in terms of actual feats of physical strength they are sorta lacking, outside of a few battle animations and defeating so very large enemies."

"Why are we talking about Joker's physicals? They are meaningless when the one that oneshots Yabadabadoo is Satanael (His Persona) while the Phantom's attacks couldn't do shit to it.

Also much lesser threats than Yabadabadoo have been stated to be world ending threats (Final boss of the fighting game for example is said to have flames that can burn the entire planet)..."

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Just like what Izanami said

"People only see what they want to see".

 

[kuramamyfav68]

Just like what Izanami said

"People only see what they want to see".

This means what?

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

It means let them believe what they want to believe.

 

[kuramamyfav68]

Why tho? If there's no counter to this smt's/persona's not 1a.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Go ahead and make a CRT on it, on this site.

 

[kuramamyfav68]

How about you counter the points first?

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

I'll counter one point. Then I'll talk about it more if you make a CRT on it (If I'm not busy that is).

"Haven't played Royale but going based on the OG game he should be planetary with Satanael, potentially universal if you do some weird scaling from crossovers

Satanael is obviously not universal only, the God Tiers in Persona is at least 2-B bare minimum since there exist character like Nyarlatothep who's the the evil side of the collective unconsciousness. And then there's Tatsuya that beats Nyarla, P1 protagonist beating character that can destroy all of existence with 2-B cosmology (Pandora) etc.

 

[Lukewoesal007]

said game is also a spin off that has an entirely different cosmology to mainline SMT games and has no relationship whatsoever to Persona

which btw is another spin off title with an entirely different cosmology that has no relationship with Persona

This is, quite frankly, blatantly untrue. Shin Megami Tensei, Persona, Quantum Devil Saga, and Devil Survivor 2 (along with every other piece of media in the Megami Tensei franchise) are part of the same cosmology.

are from a novel with dubious canoncity that is entirely different from the plot of the actual game

A novel written by one of the writers from the original game, in accordance with Atlus, for the purpose of being auxiliary material cements Quantum Devil Saga as a canonical entry. The notion that the novel's story is "entirely different from the plot of the actual game" is also completely fallacious.

"Why are we talking about Joker's physicals? They are meaningless when the one that oneshots Yabadabadoo is Satanael (His Persona) while the Phantom's attacks couldn't do shit to it.

Joker is clearly able to trade blows and tank hits from Yaldabaoth, even before awakening Satanael. Regardless of whether his ultimate Persona was required to permanently slay Yaldabaoth, Joker still scales to it.

Why tho? If there's no counter to this smt's/persona's not 1a.

That's not how it works. The burden of proof is on you to show they don't share the same cosmology, and that QDS is noncanonical.

 

[kuramamyfav68]

This is, quite frankly, blatantly untrue. Shin Megami Tensei, Persona, Quantum Devil Saga, and Devil Survivor 2 (along with every other piece of media in the Megami Tensei franchise) are part of the same cosmology.


A novel written by one of the writers from the original game, in accordance with Atlus, for the purpose of being auxiliary material cements Quantum Devil Saga as a canonical entry. The notion that the novel's story is "entirely different from the plot of the actual game" is also completely fallacious.


Joker is clearly able to trade blows and tank hits from Yaldabaoth, even before awakening Satanael. Regardless of whether his ultimate Persona was required to permanently slay Yaldabaoth, Joker still scales to it.


That's not how it works. The burden of proof is on you to show they don't share the same cosmology, and that QDS is noncanonical.

 

[Lukewoesal007]

If you were to actually read the comments/pages I linked, you would understand that all of this is untrue. The person on SpaceBattles did provide any evidence whatsoever, while the MegaTen has an entire dossier of proof to back up their claims (which are, once again, found on the pages I linked).

 

[Lukewoesal007]

The other thread regarding this topic has been locked. I'm not going to bother arguing anymore if you yourself are not knowledgeable on Megami Tensei.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Basically what Luke said.

 

[KLOL506]

Yeah this thread should be closed given how the first one was closed. This has no business being a thread to begin with.