Occam's Razor Rule

[AppleLord]

I've notice that debates involving upgrade/downgrade feats attract a lot of traffic, but not in the good way. Threads like DBS, Bleach and Naruto are always swarm with walls of text, and they get close by moderators, because a lot of people start to type random theories, and fanfiction.

The so called "Going in Cycle Threads."

I propose a new rule for VS Battle Wiki, the Occam's Razor rule.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

Is simple and easy. It will also reduce work and time for the moderators. Maintaining a site like this isn't easy, and I'm glad that they can do such awesome work.

In a nutshell, simple theories should be accepted in threads that deal with feats, over more complex one's that will lead into "wreck-storms" of comments.

Example:

Character A says to character B that he can fight at Mach 300 speeds, however, he later tells character C that he lied about his speed. We don't know what speed number character A told character C but if its not back up by anything else it will lead to a complex and almost infinite lake of possibilities. It would be better to accept the logical and simple answered, instead of assuming multiple theories that waste the time and effort of our mods.

 

[Antvasima]

I would also prefer if people kept their suggestions structured and simple to understand. Othervise the staff will usually not be interested in attempting to decipher and give input to the threads.

 

[Golden_Void]

So my last thread should be reopened and slanted in my favor @ant

 

[Antvasima]

That is not the topic of this discussion...

 

[Sera_EX]

It is imperative that long theories be made as the OP of a thread or more preferably in a blog post. Forum threads should not be flooded with walls of text, be they theories or otherwise.

The simplest solution to this is making any text that is too long collapsable (hide/show). The coding is not hard whatsoever. Kavpeny and I do it all the time.

For example:

http://i.imgur.com/YcNT8AU.png

CORRECTIONS: Goku's Total ki in all forms, as shown in the SSj1 tank is False.In fact, all 3 Golden hair forms and Gohan's Ultimate form are all Mortal ki. They can be sensed by anyone who can sense any forms of ki. Infact, only his SSj3 form holds the total mortal ki power.

Divine ki, possessed by the Gods and Goku and Vegeta, is different than Mortal ki. Cant be sensed by people without access to Divine ki. Hence Trunks only felt SSB Vegeta's pressure, not his ki. Now,for goku to use all his mortal ki, he needs to go SSj3 and full power. Thats his limit. The Ki drainage for SSj3 is still there,though. But when Goku goes SSB, he taps into his OTHER reservoir of ki, his divine ki. And here is where both the SSj4 Guy AND Geekdom101 were at fault. My theory is, like Whis said and is later indicated, SSB has immense ki Control. The Absolute best of all forms. Where SSj4 was mistaken was that he though SSB did not have a major power boost. It does. Hence Goku and Vegeta uses it against the top opponents.Where Geekdom made the mistake,is that Ki control was never very well suited for Super Saiyans, no matter how much they are used to suppressing their Ki. Super Saiyan forms always leak ki, no matter how much they try to suppress it. Hence,even after months for staying as SSj 24/7, Goku and Gohan were breaking stuffs at home before Cell Games.It was mastered,but suppressing it is harder because the ki is always leaking.

SSB probably has so great ki control,that Goku doesnt need to use the Golden hair forms anymore, other than using to access the Opponent's strength.

SSB is like a filter.Goku can rise and lower his Divine ki output instantly at will. Whereas is Golden haired forms, in order to access more of his Mortal ki, he has to go from SSj1 to SSj2 to SSj3. In SSB, he can probably control it so much that in that form he can use like 1 TRILLIONTH of his power and fight Master Roshi evenly. Hence he used SSB against Kuririn and #17, so that he can use as much ki as he want and raise it later, is he needs it, without transforming or wasting ki.

Btw. That was just some random DBS theory I found just to demonstrate.

 

[Reppuzan]

The Everlasting and I have been discussing this for a while now. I approve of such a rule.

Maybe I could phrase it like this:

"In discussions it's best to keep your suggestions as structured and simple as possible. Arguments with the fewest number of assumptions and room for error will almost always take precedence over those with more room for error unless new evidence is presented. As a result, please do not try to create upgrade threads purely based on assumptions from a small amount of information with no additional context or evidence to support them."

 

[Antvasima]

I personally like Reppuzan's suggestion.

 

[Sera_EX]

Oh~

This is about headcanon and/or upgrade threads involving little susbtance or information. Well in that case, I agree with Repp and his choice of wording said rule 100%

I still think that any very large text should be made collapsible. Even OP's as some threads are very long yet unorganized.

 

[AppleLord]

What @Reppuzan wrote seems fair enough. It will keep discussions short, and fluent over walls of text, and prevent threads from getting closed prematurely, save time and effort.

 

[Golden_Void]

What's the code for that?

 

[Sera_EX]

<div class="mw-collapsible">
'''Insert Collapsible Text'''
</div>
Results in:

Insert Collapsible Text.

 

[Sera_EX]

Read this for more advanced stuff.

 

[LlamaGod1411]

Isn't this an unwritten rule? Not sure why people would take theories with a higher number of assumptions as a valid one.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Llama

It happens more frequently than you might think. It's the reason I've had a headache with Naruto and Pokemon threads.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Anexim

You do realize that they all fought base and regular Super Saiyan Goku and Vegeta when they weren't using their God Ki, right? They wouldn't scale to universal unless they suddenly start fighting on par with SSB Goku and Vegeta.

We aren't making a complex headcanon here and your blatantly false statements only proves how necessary this rule is.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Amexim

It's been shown multiple times in the series. We only call it Saiyan Beyond God due to a video game entry if I recall correctly and since we don't have any particularly good names for it otherwise.

If they were using their God Ki, they would have entered SSB as soon as they went Super Saiyan. But they didn't, and therefore they were not using their God Ki. This is basic logic.

Anyways, this thread is not about Dragon Ball. Take your complaints to another Content Revision thread and stop derailing this one.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Amexim

I don't even care about Dragon Ball Super, but fine, I'll humor you.

Firstly, Saiyan Beyond God has a clearly different appearance from Goku's and Vegeta's base forms since they exhibit a unique white aura that is not demonstrated by their base form and is distinct from the electric yellow aura of the traditional Super Saiyan Forms.

Secondly, if you had actually watched any of those fights, they were in base or in Super Saiyan the whole time. Super Saiyan Blue is achieved by entering Super Saiyan after achieving the Saiyan Beyond God form as shown in the anime itself.

Thirdly, while Megatta and Botamo put up a decent fight, Cabba got his rear handed to him up and down the street with Vegeta taking his time to get Cabba to become a Super Saiyan. The fact that neither Vegeta nor Goku entered Super Saiyan God or Super Saiyan Blue (with the exception of Vegeta entering SSB to show off to Cabba) indicates that they were not using their God Ki and thus the Universe 6 Fighters (aside from Hit) don't scale.

Finally, your entire argument is centered around the fact that we took the name from a bunch of statements while everything else was shown in the anime that we use as the primary canon. In essence, your entire argument is moot because you are making assumptions that we are making assumptions even though we're using showings from the series.

Are you satisfied?

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

@Amexim

Unless, I'm wrong, the rule has not gone into effect just yet. This is the thread to propose it and iron out it's details should the community be in favor of it, which seems to be the case so far. Trying to use it to push Content Revision is not helping and detracting from the discussion.

Please, stop.

On Topic:

I agree with the implementing Occam's Razor and everything Rep has said and Apple's proposal. Occam's Razor would be a big help with streamlining a lot of debates around here. I'm honestly surprised this hasn't been brought up before.

 

[Amexim]

All I'm saying is, when this rule goes into affect, which I obviously think should, this should be the first thing and primary example of where it would be used. I was simply giving the best example and stating why it should be used-- having a mini debate in between.

So, how does this work, do we vote, or...?

And, like, maybe Rep or someone can find other examples of where this rule does and doesn't work? Maybe we could start with this one I just said. I would argue that going into a few specific scenarios would help us flesh out the rule. Just saying. If I pissed you off Rep, my bad. No disrespect or nothing, I'm just saying, we need to stop it with trying to make things make sense with headcanon-- because while I personally don't think any of the universe 6 fighters we're universal-- I don't write the story, and i have to work with what is given to me specifically. That, and we have no real reason to assume Frost isn't universal...

 

[Antvasima]

@Amexim Stop derailing the thread.

@Staff members Are you fine with Reppuzan's suggested new rule?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Amexim

There's a difference between bringing up an example and accusing us of creating headcanons.

A better example would be something like whether or not we take the Star-busting statement in One-Punch Man's databook as fact. The fact that the character that it was translated from can mean Planet as well as Star along with multiple planet busting statements in the series meant that we took the path of fewest assumptions and left Saitama at possibly 5-B.

 

[Sera_EX]

I'm fine with Repp's rule.

 

[Antvasima]

@Amexin Go away please. You are derailing an important discussion.

@Sera Okay. Feel free to insert something in the vein of the following text into an appropriate position in the Discussion Rules page:

"When creating content revision threads, it is best to keep your suggestions as structured and simple to understand as possible, so the staff will have an easier time evaluating the text. Avoid writing upgrade threads mainly based on assumptions from a limited amount of information, with no additional context or evidence to support them."

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I agree with this

 

[Antvasima]

So, is my version of the regulation acceptable?

 

[AppleLord]

@Antvasima version looks more straightforward and clean.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks.

What do the staff members think?

 

[Antvasima]

I have added the rule here, but it can be modified if appropriate.