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Noctis' Speed and Attack Potency

Skylietz

Skylietz

192
24
Speed

I have found this, he said that Noctis' Ultimate Armiger mode speed at its best is 600 mph (965.6 kph) = 268.224 m/s = Subsonic+

As for the Attack Speed maybe somewhere around Supersonic+ and possibly higher because of the Royal Arms crossed the land of Lucis in a matter of seconds and his swords-spam attack was depicted to be faster than his movement speed.


Attack Potency
Did you guys scaling Noctis based on Gilgamesh (to be precise, Gilgamesh on another FF universe)? I have a disagreement on this, can we just calculate the character's attack potencies based on its own universe? Is Gilgamesh have an attack that depicted could be able to bust a Planet on this game? (like on the previous FF) FFXV's Gilgamesh has a different backstory, he is not a recurring character from other FF Universe, it's clear as a day IMHO.

So far, the best Noctis could do were defeated Mountain-sized Adamantoise (with some efforts and not alone), defeated Leviathan that (almost completely?) destroyed a Small City / City-sized Altissia with Armiger Ultimate mode, battle vs Titan (comparable to Adamantoise), defeated Ardyn, from the battle I judged that Ardyn was just slightly superior to Astrals, and maybe on the same level as Bahamut), the only thing that maybe on the Planet Level is the power of Knights (or Kings) of The Round summoned by King of Light, but it lacks of scalability, as we only know that its power is described in the lore as exceeding the Six Astrals.

So, I think Noctis' attack potency is somewhere between Mountain to Country level (but no Country level feats,I suppose he is somewhere below this), higher with KOTR summon (King of Light).

What do you guys think?
 
I see, looking forward to it :)

I suggest it's something like this for the revision:

Attack Potency: At least Mountain level (killed Mountain-sized Adamantoise with his teammates), higher with fully-powered Armiger (single-handledly defeated Leviathan and Ardyn, and with the aid of the combined attack of the previous Kings of Lucis ultimately destroyed Ardyn's near-indestructible soul.)

Speed: Peak Human (without Warp), Subsonic (with Warp), Subsonic+ with fully-powered Armiger, Supersonic+ attack speed, possibly higher (Royal Arms crossed the land of Lucis in a matter of seconds)

Lifting Strength: At least Class G (Matched and physically overpowered Titan), likely higher with fully-powered Armiger mode (this mode highly boosted his stats) .

It was described as Class T at the current page, but Titan's size is nowhere as huge as Mount Everest, my raw estimates on Titan's height alone is about 120 to 200 m (scaling to Shingeki no Kyojin's Colossal Tita) and it's partly proven by not even his head reaches the lowest cloud level (about 6500 ft = 1980 m), so he's just comparable to the size of a large building.

Range: Extended melee range with various weapons, hundreds of meters with magic and firearms, several kilometers with warping and Armiger Arsenal <<-- up to this is true, but the Planetary Starscourge banisher range was not there, he only defeated the source, not the Starscourge itself, like you eliminate an antenna in order to eliminate the signals produced by it (sorry for a bad analogy)
 
A. Titan has a Country level feat (Catching a meteor) and Ifrit has a Multi-Continent level feat (His flames are stated to be able to turn the world to ashes).

B. That speed is absolutely no. The Royal Arms were calculated at triple digit mach and various characters can react to it. Additionally, the Coeruls and the Thunderoc use natural lightning to attack.

C. Titan was calculated to, IIRC, be around six kilometers tall. Regardless, he still caught the meteor and that's the important part.

D. Absolutely, positively nothing implies that Titan was casual. If he was, the party wouldn't have been able to damage him or shatter his arm.

E. Ardyn is not the source of the Starscourge, it existed long before Ardyn was born. The Starscourge had covered all of Eos, and Noctis had purged it all to return light to the world.
 
That Meteor could range from City to Country destroyer, but we can't be sure about that as he is an Earth/rock/stone manipulator, he exceeds all other Astrals on this part, yet he is inferior to Leviathan, his Earth barrier cannot stood the Tsunami, his all-out attack managed to hurt Adamantoise but NOT killing it, scaling things from here is pretty reasonable IMHO ... another example is Bahamut cannot even killed Ifrit, but Shiva could defeated him just fine (although Ifrit was already weakened) just because of her attack is potentially stronger than any other Astrals in this regards .. Ice vs Fire, but in general, Bahamut is the strongest Astral, or so they said, and he is not vastly stronger than other Astrals, so I think the Astrals are Mountain level at the least, Country level at most (overtime effect)

and I have to disagree with Multi Continent Ifrit because of he was just torched the part of the City when his final battle ensued, maybe he could do that over time, but it will took him long enough to burn the entire world, not with a single (even multiple), powerful attack, it's like a normal human trying to burn an entire forest, it's possible, but will took him long enough, the lore is not wrong, but well, you have my point.

and don't forget the Kingsglaive movie, it shows clearer depiction of the power scale, Nyx should not be weaker than Noctis' friends, and likely even much stronger than Gladiolus with Ring of Lucii power, and from the destructions they caused (General Glauca vs Nyx) it seems they were on City to Mountai level.

Massively Hypersonic attack speed (warp-swords attack) and possibly even Sub-Relativistic combat reaction seems arguably fine scaling with lightning dodge feats, but from the gameplay I thought we couldnt dodged the lightning, we could only blocked or stayed away from the range of attack or through Phasing,

his travel / flight speed at triple digit maches is not reasonable by the calc I mentioned before, his running/travel speed is even only on Peak Human to Superhuman level at most (without his magical power), he's much slower than even Regalia or Chocobo (non battle mode).

Titan's head is not even reaching the lowest of the cloud (1980 m tall), I have to disagree with the 6 km tall, but yeah regardless he still caught the meteor, so the Mountain lifting feat is likely / possible.

Ah yes, I already edited that part of casual Titan before you reply, sorry bout that.

Oh, my mistake on the Starscourge part, not really read about that when I played,

So, based on what you said and mine, non-king-of-light / base / Armiger boosted Noctis is at least Mountai level, likely Country level (scaling with the Astrals) | King of Light Noctis is maybe somewhere between Multi-Continent to Planet level (completely destroyed Ardyn's soul, and ultimately cleansed the entire Eos from Starscourge)
 
FFXV Ranks of power maybe something like this

1. King of Light Noctis (at least Multi Continent, possibly Planet level)

2. Ardyn (at least Mountain level, possibly Country level)

3. Astrals (at least Mountain level, likely higher)

4. Nyx = Glauca = Noct's underlings EoS (Mountain level)
 
Everyone would be Country level scaling from Titan, and MHS+ scaling from fodder monsters who have lightning feats.
 
"That Meteor could range from City to Country destroyer, but we can't be sure about that as he is an Earth/rock/stone manipulator, he exceeds all other Astrals on this part, yet he is inferior to Leviathan, his Earth barrier cannot stood the Tsunami, his all-out attack managed to hurt Adamantoise but NOT killing it"

The meteor was calculated to be Country level through size and KE.

I don't see your point with Leviathan.

Summoning against the Adamantoise is a gameplay mechanic.

"another example is Bahamut cannot even killed Ifrit"

Because Ifrit dodged all of his attacks.

"and I have to disagree with Multi Continent Ifrit because of he was just torched the part of the City when his final battle ensued, maybe he could do that over time, but it will took him long enough to burn the entire world, not with a single (even multiple), powerful attack, it's like a normal human trying to burn an entire forest, it's possible, but will took him long enough, the lore is not wrong, but well, you have my point."

The Dissidia summons compendium explicitly note that Ifrit can turn the world to ashes.

If Noctis moved at MHS+ speeds in-game, it would be impossible to control and the Regalia/Chocobos would be completely pointless.
 
"The Dissidia summons compendium explicitly note that Ifrit can turn the world to ashes."

FFXV is not on Dissidia yet, and Dissidia itself is just another universe, different powerscaling too, and could you provided me the link to the lore that mentioned he was able to turned the world into ashes?

also @Matthew Schroeder ... Ifrit was infected by the Starscourge, thus he is not the source.

From Kingsglaive, General Glauca could casually defeated Regis, albeit weakened but should not be much weaker than base Noctis, and The King's strongest magical wall (that could only possibly casted with Crystal + Ring Lucii, not by The King himself) that protected the City was just around, well, City level at most), and Glauca's final battle with Nyx was nowhere near at Country level, their capabilities was shown to be on the scale of at least Multi City Block, likely City and possibly Mountain level.

The meteor AP itself is nowhere near Country level as the meteor is likely around 300 m (2x Titan size) in diameter (likely similar to real life Apophis meteor, which is 325 m in diameter, that it estimated would release the energy equivalent to more than 1 billion tons of TNT exploding = Large Mountain or Small Island level, you can google about Apophis).

As for Titan size, you can scale him with Adamantoise, there are plenty of images references for that, and I have already calculated the height myself, Titan height is about 150 m (could be a little more or less), maybe I will put the image references later, too lazy to do it now.

I think we should scale these characters based on their truly proven feats either by game or the animated movie (Kingsglaive) / anime Brotherhood, for example: meteor catcher Titan was real, provided by the lore and proven by visual.
 
"FFXV is not on Dissidia yet, and Dissidia itself is just another universe, different powerscaling too, and could you provided me the link to the lore that mentioned he was able to turned the world into ashes?"

It applies to a general Ifrit across all games since Dissidia is a crossover.

"and The King's strongest magical wall (that could only possibly casted with Crystal + Ring Lucii, not by The King himself) that protected the City was just around, well, City level at most)"

A barrier that protects an area can be much stronger. By this logic, Vados' barrier covering the U6 Tournament arena is Small Building level.

"and Glauca's final battle with Nyx was nowhere near at Country level, their capabilities was shown to be on the scale of at least Multi City Block, likely City and possibly Mountain level."

Area of Effect =/= Tier.

"The meteor AP itself is nowhere near Country level"

It was calced at Country level.
 
Just a note that we technically have a rule about that we should disregard crossovers, since characters of originally wildly different power levels are usually rescaled to match each other.
 
"It applies to a general Ifrit across all games since Dissidia is a crossover"

Then we are going back to Large Planet Level Gilgamesh scale, didn't we already disregarded that kind of crossovers?

Noctis and his sidekicks were terrified against Adamantoise, even Regis were not able to defeated it in the past (from Cid comment, after Noct and gang beat the giant tortoise), and Adamantoise should be comparable, or at least not significantly weaker to the Astrals, and Adamantoise tier were possibly at least around Mountain level (due to sheer size), possibly Large Mountain / Small Island AP and durability. (and of course, even City to Mountain level characters should be able to killed it overtime, because of Adamantoise's weakness, its eyes).

"It was calced at Country level."

Please give me the link to the calculations, for meteor to be have an AP around Country level needs a kilometers of diameter (at least around 5 km of diameter), we can calculate the height of Titan with the height of Adamantoise head from above the ground, they are about the same height, at most, it is around 100 to 150 m (I have the calcs, say, if the Titan is around 200m (which is an unlikely value), then the meteor size is, like the Apophis I mentioned before, 275 m diameter, will only destroyed a Small Island or less, and even if the meteor is three times larger (which was impossible given the size of the Titan), it will only produces Island level AP at most,

the realistic diameter of the meteor is around 200 m (or less) which will only destroy a Mountain+ or Large Mountain at most

The calculator

and it appeared the characters below Complete Armiger mode Noctis are somewhat comparable to S-Class heroes in One Punch Man from their feats (which are City to Mountain level), with Complete Armiger Noctis himself is somewhat comparable, but likely below Tatsumaki (Large Island level+, that could easily manipulate a large meteor, should be much stronger than Titan), and none of the FFXV characters have claimed or showing any powers to be able to destroy the planet surface in an instant like Boros did, sorry for bringing OPM up, but you have my point, only King of Light that ever mentioned to have the possible capability to "affect" the whole world.

So, Multi-Continent level for FFXV characters are unlikely from my viewpoint and calc, and even The King of Light's Multi Continent level is questionnable as we do not know the Starscourge elimination process, whether by defeating Ardyn or by his multi-continent light power (offscreen) after he destroyed Ardyn (but he was supposed to be dead after he used all of Lucian Kings powers in the what appearently to be afterlife).

Noctis AP: At least Mountain level, possibly Large Mountain level (at base, overpowered Titan) | at least Large Mountain level (Full Armiger Noctis defeated Leviathan 1 vs 1) | at least Large Mountain Level, possibly Multi Continent level (King of Light surpassed all of the Astrals, destroyed Ardyn's immortal soul, and erased Starscourge through a questionnable means)
 
The diameter of the meteor isn't everything, dude. It was probably moving at pretty wicked speeds to reach Country level AP. "Realistic" doesn't mean which in a world where guys can swing 6 foot long swords like nothing. Your estimation of what the meteor can or can't destroy doesn't mean much if the calculated results are accurate.

That said I can't really verify the math currently. The method seems weird but ChaosTheory is usually pretty spot on.
 
Adamantoise has only shaken the entire area, not even larger than a City, small tremor outside that radius should not be counted as attack potency, but yeah, still unclear, but not senseless.

OPM just a comparison by the pictures of what the characters can do without the interferences of the lore, but you may ignore that, just a fun what-if-VS-Battle.

I see, so that was Ifrit's Dissidia from FFIII - FFXI, but if I remember correctly, FFVIII Ifrit had different description, "able to burn a Continent" or something like that, a whole world vs a continent is a different scale altogother, but then again, I could be wrong on this part, regardless, until FFXV was also mentioned on the future Dissidia, it should not be used as a proper scaling.

As for meteor size, we can roughly estimated it based on Titan size, as the Astral carried it on his back, and as for Titan size, I have already mentioned to scale it with Adamantoise, I will post the comparison later maybe.

@Darkanine I know dude, that's why I brought that calculator: diameter, impact velocity, density, where it landed, impact angle were all counted, try yourself with low end, averages, and top end values for the meteor impact. 100% accuracy regarding this part is impossible I know, even scientists can't be 100% sure about the accuracy I suppose lol.
 
AP =/= AoE.

But it has no relevance to the actual statistics, so why even bring it up?

No, it refers to all Ifrits across the entire series, there's no reason to arbitrarily exempt FFXV Ifrit from it.

You know there are different methods of scaling, right? The one brought up in the calc is far more reasonable in my view than what you're suggesting.
 
"No, it refers to all Ifrits across the entire series, there's no reason to arbitrarily exempt FFXV Ifrit from it."

"It applies to a general Ifrit across all games since Dissidia is a crossover."

well, Antvasima noted we should not used a crossover, should it applied to this? I actually agree with him.

and even if this kind of crossover is allowed, we can't really calculate the real Energy output just from the vague description of "could turn the world into ashes", it has multiple interpretations, burn the world overtime, or instantly burns the entire world (did you believe this just from the description? I'd say this is impossible), or could burn a smaller size world in an instant (FF planets were small compared to real Earth, but then again, an instant ash planet is very unlikely, even for the smaller size of the planet).

Separating Dissidia and the original series seems better, even it brought up the original numbered FF, it should be considered lesser in the power of validity compared to the original one.

also by your logic, Bahamut should also be at the same power level across the Final Fantasy franchise, yet, they were all much different.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Bahamut_(Final_Fantasy)

and, I think you guys should recalculated Titan size compared to the Meteor, 6 km Titan and/or Meteor are unlikely from my calculation, and it may produces different energy output (I know about the velocity, impact angle, density modifier, but still, diameter is an important factor to the total energy output), just a suggestion (y).
 
You're very badly misinterpreting it.

Ifrit's feat comes from the summon compendium in Dissidia, which describes the summons as they appear across the series, not in specific games.

Nothing shows that the FF worlds are smaller than Earth, and we have no reason to assume an arbitrarily long timeframe when the statement implies it's instantaneous. No need to overcomplicate a statement that's pretty simple, just take it as it is.

The difference there is that Bahamut has no statement in Dissidia to scale to all of his incarnations.

There are some Ifrits stronger than others, but this feat is a baseline for all of them.
 
"Titan has a Country level feat (Catching a meteor) and Ifrit has a Multi-Continent level feat (His flames are stated to be able to turn the world to ashes)."

Well "burning the world to ashes" sounds like flowery language to me, but whatever.
 
Mostly stuff from FF1 comes to mind, like the Leviathan feat Reppuzan mentioned and Lich messing with entire continents with his power (the calc attached to the feat is really weirdly lowballed). So planetary-continental manipulation is nothing new.
 
Darkanine said:
Mostly stuff from FF1 comes to mind, like the Leviathan feat Reppuzan mentioned and Lich messing with entire continents with his power (the calc attached to the feat is really weirdly lowballed). So planetary-continental manipulation is nothing new.
Click to expand...
I still need to upgrade the Four Fiends to High 6-A. Both Kraken and Marilith have feats on that level.
 
@Repp

Leviathan's feat is more literal than "turning the world into ashes" when it doesnt even state the timeframe or whatever. If its supposed to be instantaneous, that alone gives ifrit planetary range (Im just voicing my doubts, nothing else).

@Darkanine

Ifrit should be able to do that via powerscaling from other Eidolons, summons, etc.
 
FFXV is a different universe, I think it's biased to use another game such as Dissidia (even from the same developer) as a power-scaling, how do we know that the writers of the compendium is the same as the story-maker of FFXV?

I think it's more professional if we just use the canon FFXV materials, and separates all of the Ifrit's incarnation from different FF, as the compendium's not 100% free from flowery language and power of validity is not as strong as proven feats.

Seeing is believing + calculation = solid truth
 
@Skylietz

You're also forgetting that Leviathan commands every ocean in the world and Ifrit is at least comparable to her.
 
@Repp isnt Leviathan usually portrayed above Ifrit, Ramuh and Shiva? Or am I misunderstanding your message?
 
@PaChi2

In most games, that is often the case.

However, far as I can remember, none of the Astrals save Bahamut are overwhelmingly superior to one another. Shiva is just the one best suited for taking Ifrit down.

Ever would answer this question better than I though.
 
@Repp Oh sorry, I thought this was referring to the Dissidia thing.

Then yes, in XV there is no clear rank between the summons except probably bahamut.
 
The only clearly defined power is Bahamut being the leader and most powerful.

Hence why Titan, Leviathan and Ramuh have "Possibly High 6-A".
 
Titan's height is 497.04 ft. = 151 m fits my calculation.

"Dissidia, in its structure, encompasses every game."

Well, I still doubts its canonicity, FFXV is not even there yet, and it's still possible for the compendium to be updated.

and I heard FFXV was updated with in-game Bestiary, the powerscaling we are looking for might be there. (I wish my connection is fast enough to instantly download the update lol)

"You're also forgetting that Leviathan commands every ocean in the world and Ifrit is at least comparable to her."

I assume she will need some time to drown the entire world, the same with Ifrit to burn the entire world, unless she was depicted on the summoning to be able to drown the entire world (at least almost) instantly (the camera zoomed out on the outer space, viewing the Earth's land being swallowed by water),

and Leviathan's incarnations were all different, powerscaling with the least what she can do on the previous title won't be a valid data.

also, it was never stated in FFXV that its Leviathan were capable to command every ocean at the same time (multi-continent range). and the Astrals never mentioned (not even implied) to be a multi-continent/planetary threat,

The Starscourge and The True King were the only things that was capable to affect the entire world.
 
Heights that can be calculated > official heights.

Why would the description suddenly change because XV exists?

No need to assume an arbitrarily long timeframe.

Ifrit can turn the world to ashes. That's what you need.

See above.
 
So, Energy output that can be calculated > official description.

Here is my calculation regarding Titan's height https://ibb.co/e3GoYk , the tall red-lined figure is Titan (sorry for bad drawing, just a raw estimate, but not far from truth, as I draw based on Titan vs Adamantoise scene) scaled from Noctis heights (176cm), calculate based on the pixel : mm ratio, it fits around 150m height, so the official heights = true value.
 
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