Nipponverse CRT: Ability removal.

[Dragonstitch]

This will be easy. this will be a thread removing 2 abilities Artina, and Valvatorez's Acausality and Baal's Resistance to Realty warping.

First for Baal he has this under the idea that the sacred tome's realty warping could not work on him but looking through Makai Kingdom's baal events there is no feat or statement backing this. so it needs removed.

second Artina, and Valvatorez's Acausality needs axed. originally is was added under the idea of the 2 having no memory of fuka, or desco being at artina's death even through they time travailed 400 years back to those events using ticktock a stopwatch that let's you time travel. The event gives the reason that the past changed itself to fit the future. So this looks to not be an ability of the characters. but a cosmology thing where major events in the past can't be changed without the ability to change fate. as shown in disgaea 6.

 

[Dragonstitch]

bump

 

[Dragonstitch]

bump

 

[Dragonstitch]

bump

 

[Dragonstitch]

bump

 

[Dragonstitch]

bump

 

[Dragonstitch]

bump

 

[OverlordDonnelly]

Considering that I pointed one of these out, I agree entirely.

Also I believe that some profiles still have things like Hellfire Manipulation on them, when that isn't even a thing anymore.

 

[Dragonstitch]

the Hellfire Manipulation will be dealt with when i start the CRT's adding the DRPG stuff. Which I am going through the first game's pages.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

This will be easy. this will be a thread removing 2 abilities Artina, and Valvatorez's Acausality and Baal's Resistance to Realty warping.

First for Baal he has this under the idea that the sacred tome's realty warping could not work on him but looking through Makai Kingdom's baal events there is no feat or statement backing this. so it needs removed.

second Artina, and Valvatorez's Acausality needs axed. originally is was added under the idea of the 2 having no memory of fuka, or desco being at artina's death even through they time travailed 400 years back to those events using ticktock a stopwatch that let's you time travel. The event gives the reason that the past changed itself to fit the future. So this looks to not be an ability of the characters. but a cosmology thing where major events in the past can't be changed without the ability to change fate. as shown in disgaea 6.

Baal's resistance is more deduced than outright stated. Trenya knows everything but when Zetta questions her about the means to end Baal, she falls silent. The implication is that even wishing him away with her powers wouldn't work. I think that's enough grounds for possibly. Artina and Valvatorez being acausal makes no sense, that I agree with.

 

[Dragonstitch]

issue is she refused to answer which can imply many things. and in that same game we find out one of the ways to kill baal is to destroy his soul before it leaves it's host. and in character Trenia was not someone that told everyone to use the sacred tome to do everything she only brought up using it to bring Salome back to life. Heck this could also mean that the cosmos would refuse to grant the wish to kill baal which would lead to the same thing with the Acausality to being a cosmology thing protecting him.

So I don't think it is implying that the tome would not have worked. i think it was her refusing to tell him his only means at that moment was destroying his own body. Something zetta did not want to do.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

issue is she refused to answer which can imply many things. and in that same game we find out one of the ways to kill baal is to destroy his soul before it leaves it's host. and in character Trenia was not someone that told everyone to use the sacred tome to do everything she only brought up using it to bring Salome back to life. Heck this could also mean that the cosmos would refuse to grant the wish to kill baal which would lead to the same thing with the Acausality to being a cosmology thing protecting him.

So I don't think it is implying that the tome would not have worked. i think it was her refusing to tell him his only means at that moment was destroying his own body. Something zetta did not want to do.

The game never confirmed that Laharl's method of burning out the body before the soul can leave truly put an end to Baal. With context to the entire plotline around D1 in that game given, the event was clearly a follow up to Laharl's entourage hating Zetta's guts and only joining the squad as a ploy to get away with murder. Also Laharl is so quick to assumptions in this game that he was misled into believing Zetta was Baal. Not to mention the quote “We need to completely obliterate this bastard so he never comes back!” when no prior attempt to do just that has ever worked.

From that I can only conclude that taking Laharl's words without the ocean's worth of salt is a bad idea. I don't think what the game provides is enough for a solid rating but a possible resistance isn't too far-fetched.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

The game never confirmed that Laharl's method of burning out the body before the soul can leave truly put an end to Baal. With context to the entire plotline around D1 in that game given, the event was clearly a follow up to Laharl's entourage hating Zetta's guts and only joining the squad as a ploy to get away with murder. Also Laharl is so quick to assumptions in this game that he was misled into believing Zetta was Baal. Not to mention the quote “We need to completely obliterate this bastard so he never comes back!” when no prior attempt to do just that has ever worked.

From that I can only conclude that taking Laharl's words without the ocean's worth of salt is a bad idea. I don't think what the game provides is enough for a solid rating but a possible resistance isn't too far-fetched.

The thing is, we have precedent that we don't give resistances like that without actual explicit proof (not even as possibly), so Dragonstitch would be correct here.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

The thing is, we have precedent that we don't give resistances like that without actual explicit proof (not even as possibly), so Dragonstitch would be correct here.

Normally I agree with that, but we are talking about the God Tier of the verse with this set of scenes. Context of this event goes hand in hand with his portrayal in the series as being something that no one can give a permanent end to. All solutions being at best temporary. Further supporting that interpretation, as of DD2 T. O. Analysis makes him completely nullify anything the verse can throw at him after experiencing it once.

Feels like a particularly skeptical take on Occam's Razor to assume that Trenia's reality warping would be the exception to the rule, when an answer to getting rid of him was nowhere to be seen from her. And Trenia doesn't fall in deep, thoughtful silence when asked things like that. She speaks like a cloud cuckoolander to dodge the subject instead. But if the wiki does hold to that level of doubt even for a possibly rating, sadly got nothing else here to say but nod.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

But if the wiki does hold to that level of doubt even for a possibly rating, sadly got nothing else here to say but nod.

believe me, it gets crazy sometimes

 

[Magicomethkuon]

believe me, it gets crazy sometimes

It's a good thing I always bring my comfort mug to any forum.

 

[Dragonstitch]

the thing is while T.O. Analyze could help but we have no feats of it working on Reality Warping on the tome's level. though considering gods of destruction seem to have some level of Reality Warping resistance. I can see leaving it as a possible since some of them can't be effected by the dark assembly's Reality Warping

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

the thing is while T.O. Analyze could help but we have no feats of it working on Reality Warping on the tome's level. though considering gods of destruction seem to have some level of Reality Warping resistance. I can see leaving it as a possible since some of them can't be effected by the dark assembly's Reality Warping

As long as there's some basis for it, I agree.

 

[Dragonstitch]

And something i realized while the Reality Warping resistance would not be on the level of the tome. with the dark assembly's wish granting being Reality Warping and law manipulation. This would be a net positive.

 

[Dragonstitch]

bump

 

[Magicomethkuon]

How much support do you need for these changes to apply? And in Baal's case the explanation will be changed, correct?

 

[Dragonstitch]

I think this is considered a minor change. which after i bumped i learned need only 1,

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I think this is considered a minor change. which after i bumped i learned need only 1,

You are correct.