Master Roshi upgrade

[Valar_Melkor_2]

Okay so I know Roshi's Moon busting is considered an outlier but I found this on Dragon Ball wiki:


It was stated by Akira Toriyama that Master Roshi was in fact always unbelievably strong, but had never fought as seriously as he did in Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection 'F', he references Roshi as being equal or even stronger than Krillin (who has a power level of at least 75,000 according to V-Jump), and stated that the battle with Raditz would have gone a lot differently had Roshi been there and fought seriously.

And it gives sources to back it up: [1] [2]

Also, Roshi was easily defeating dozens of Frieza soldiers in the movie, and was allowed to fight them while it was deemed to be too dangerous for Yamcha and Chiaotzu, so I think Toriyama is clearly portraying the character as more powerful then he is rated on this wiki, and I think he should get an upgrade.

 

[DeezNuts1102]

This seems reasonable, i like the idea that changing him into moon level means that we have upgrade others as well

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. Maybe. Let's wait to see what Lord Kavpeny thinks? However, we would then only make an extra column for RoF Roshi, not upgrade the original. It would make no sense for him to have held back while humanity was at stake against Piccolo.

 

[Undylan]

Well....There is no reason how he would be that powerful since he never trained for years but i guess that's master roshi for you.

Also, The second links has Toriyama says golden freeza power level is one hundred quintillion wut?

 

[DeezNuts1102]

^lol i think he was joking, 100 quintillion is aburd xD

 

[Valar_Melkor_2]

Well....There is no reason how he would be that powerful since he never trained for years but i guess that's master roshi for you.
Also, The second links has Toriyama says golden freeza power level is one hundred quintillion wut?

Toriyama didn't say Golden Frieza's power level was one hundred quintillion, his voice actor did I think, and I believe that is what the article is referencing.

 

[DeezNuts1102]

@Ant: maybe he was letting Goku having a shot against King piccolo so that he could be the hero instead of Master roshi.

 

[Antvasima]

That seems extremely unlikely. Toriyama is most likely just being forgetful again.

 

[DeezNuts1102]

I think that letting Goku kill King piccolo was intended, if Master Roshi were to kill King piccolo then it could alter the storyline itself,

 

[Kavpeny]

I would like links to this "statement" directly, not some website which also lists Golden Frieza's PL as 100 quintillion, which was stated by the voice actor, not Akira Toriyama, which the website lists incorrectly.

Given that Master Roshi was incapable of fighting with King Piccolo evenly, when he clearly considered him a serious threat, was unable to follow 23rd Budokai Goku and Piccolo fighting, I'd say this idea is likely completely absurd.

Also, people do realize that this illogical upgrade means Master Roshi could have beaten Saiyan Saga Vegeta and Goku, right? Does anybody realize the idiocy of the plot hole they're attempting to acknowledge?

For God's sake, I'm starting to align myself with QuincyKing's stance. The wank that BoG and RoF are getting is seriously getting on my nerves.

@DeezNuts1102: I normally don't use crude language, but dude. Stop bullshitting.

@Valar Melkor 2: I should probably ban you for bringing up this tiresome topic again, without checking for the validity of the article, and believing it as gospel instead.

 

[DeezNuts1102]

@Lord Kavpeny: I'm not even the one who bring up this topic and you're calling me bullsh*tting? that's called giving out opinions and theories, you can't simply using vulgar language to people from simple things like this.

And can you pin point out where's the bullsh*tness of my opinion? because if there were any then i shall regret what i said earlier and apologize.

You could ban me for a whole eternity if you want to, i don't really care anyway.

 

[Kavpeny]

@Ant: maybe he was letting Goku having a shot against King piccolo so that he could be the hero instead of Master roshi.

^

Seriously? That's your rationale? Master Roshi's died fighting King Piccolo of all people. I don't see how that was close to "letting Goku have a shot so that he could be the hero instead".

Yet, you persist in assuming that Roshi was still not going out when puting his life on the line (and dying shortly therafter, might I add), was actually holding back power surpassing Saiyan Saga Vegeta?

The ludicrousness of your argument prompted me to utter an expletive. I apologize if you found it offensive.

 

[Unclechairman]

The article mentions Jump Comics' "Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection of F, Volume F" as being the source of the quote. It seems someone is going to have to find or buy the issue, then locate and translate the quote.

"Also, people do realize that this illogical upgrade means Master Roshi could have beaten Saiyan Saga Vegeta and Goku, right?"

No, my friend. If I'm not mistaken, the Frieza soldiers Roshi fought had power levels of 3000. Higher than Raditz and the Saibamen, yes, but Goku in the Saiyan Saga had a power level of 8000+, and Vegeta had a power level of 18000+. Difference factors of 1:2 (double) or at times even lower in Dragon Ball frequently result in curbstomps. Master Roshi beating a lot of soldiers with power levels of 3000 does not mean he can fight to-to-toe with someone six times as strong. Besides, Saiyan Saga Goku and Vegeta are listed as Planet level, while this upgrade would likely only get Roshi to Small Planet level at best. Admittedly, Roshi being this strong does raise questions about his conduct with King Piccolo and the rest of DBZ, though the latter can probably be explained as him just being extremely lazy.

I must say, Kavpeny, your conduct here (expletives, belligerent tone, and threatening to ban an otherwise well-behaved contributor who has done nothing truly wrong to my knowledge, and it's not like he's bringing up the same arguments that previous users beat to death; this is new information to my knowledge) does not become an admin or recently ascended bureaucrat. Is the idea of a Moon level Roshi some kind of trigger for you?

 

[Undylan]

But what about the part it said Roshi as being equal or even stronger than Krillin as of RoF? (Who can be around millions)

 

[Unclechairman]

I missed that part, I'm afraid. I was only focusing on his main feat from the movie; beating numerous Frieza Soldiers with power levels of 3000.

 

[Davy0]

That Moon Level Roshi in DB still not valid, eh?

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

that moon buster feat has 0 combat use tbh, it took him several seconds to charge, thats a loong time even for a supersonic enemy

 

[Davy0]

Actually, it was used in the Resurrection of F as his main form.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

but did he gather moon busting amounts of energy, also, if he indeed beat multiple opponents of PL 3000, then, that means he would have been above raditz, who knos, he might have been doing training on his own in between the sagas, then ahgain, i am cautious about the upgrade thing

 

[Davy0]

Yes, he did. Quite easily actually.

Either he was training, or he always had a significant amount of power, he just didn't use it. I go with training, but if what they said about Raditz is true, he needs a power up in DB as well.

 

[Soul01]

frieza solider have a power level of 1500 not 3000,but he was holding himself prety good in the movie

 

[Sheoth]

This would explain how Roshi was beating Frieza's soldiers. But it then creates the issue of what the hell was Roshi doing during King Piccolo's charade.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

he could have trained since then, he gave all he cud against KP and still lost

but he had like 10+ years to train after that, also, considering that even after his training, he is still most likely below nappa, the training would have had no significance to the plot, and hence was not shown

 

[Sheoth]

That would make sense, but it's still speculatory.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

well, we can see an effect (him being a lot stronger than in at least BOZ), so ther must be a cause

yes power level dont tell much, but we know that people with higher power levels are stronger than people with lower ones, so if roshi did beat frieza soldiers with PL around that of raditz, then he shud be stronger than raditz

once again, i am just giving some reasonings to explain the power increase, but i am not staunchly advocating it

 

[Sheoth]

You make a good point.

However, I think I will stay out of this one...

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

so, so far, in summary: roshi might have trained and ended up somewhat stronger than raditz, but since his new power was mediocre even for the saiyan saga, it was not exclusively shown later on, and thats why he wouldnt have stod a chance against enemies like andoids, hence the power increase was never hinted or sene (others just went light years ahead of him), so this is why probably he seemed to have made a huge jump recently, but might have been slowly progressing all this time (still miniscule compared to even fodders like yamcha)

i am not saying that he should definitely be upgraded, but what i am saying is that these arguements shouldnt just be thrown aside like that

thats all i had to say

 

[Davy0]

Or... And listen to me with this now, K. Piccolo could have been a Moon Buster yet never showed it. Though Roshi never used his Max Power Form on him either unless I'm mistaken as it would have taken too much time to charge his cells with all the energy within his body. Don't forget that Piccolo had also effortlessly, with one ki blast destroyed the moon before even beginning his hard training against the Saiyans. DB may have been stronger than first realized, though Piccolo is known for training against Goku in the BoZ.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

while there might be truth in that, and the aoe arguement can be made, most people have disregarded moon level KP

also keep in mind, he may need to charge up for many seconds to make a moon level attack, so that really wont count

what counts is immediate damage

and KP is below moon level

but that is not being discussed here

we have pretty much accepted sub moon level db part 1, here, however, making an arguement for roshi to slowly progress in power during the part 2 is more suitable, and it not being shown is very likely becasue even though he increased his power, his power in the end was so low that he was below fodders like yamcha

 

[Davy0]

But he's not. Krillin is commented in the movie as the "strongest human" that goes for being more powerful than Tien as well.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

what do you mean by "he is not"

 

[Davy0]

He's not Yamcha level fodder, he's "Krillin" level fodder. A big difference.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

still fodder

which means his growth was not important for the story and hence not shown

 

[Davy0]

Krillin > The Earth. Still has the capacity to do what Piccolo did to the moon in BoZ.Effortlessly, I may add.

 

[Soul01]

But he's not. Krillin is commented in the movie as the "strongest human" that goes for being more powerful than Tien as well.

tien isn't a human ,he is a some kind of cyclop race

 

[Kevenkiller]

Cyclop have only 1 eye not 3

http://www.photoshopcreative.co.uk/users/2121/thm1024/cycloop.jpg

 

[Soul01]

Cyclop have only 1 eye not 3
http://www.photoshopcreative.co.uk/users/2121/thm1024/cycloop.jpg

and cats on dragon ball can talk

 

[Kevenkiller]

I belive Tien is not base about Cyclop but more about Shiva

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/Z...pVPbK8c1YBtoqKwMUIEQ_8FjNSq4eLcE6yhwSZm5Dy32I

Tien and Shiva have 3 eyes and Tien can have 4 arms like Shiva ( Even if Shiva can have more than 4 )