Macht vs Gojo

[Wandering_Bread]

Speed equal.

Macht

Macht is a demon from "Frieren: Beyond Journey's End", and the primary antagonist of the El Dorado arc. He is the sole survivor and the strongest of the Seven Sages of Destruction who served the Demon King. Sealed for a long time in the Golden Land he created, by the great barrier managed by the...

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Satoru Gojo

Satoru Gojo (五ご条じょう悟さとる, Gojō Satoru?) is one of the main protagonists of the Jujutsu Kaisen series. He is a Special Grade Jujutsu Sorcerer who is widely recognized as the strongest of the Modern Era. Satoru is the pride of the Gojo Family, being the first person to inherit both Limitless and...

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[Tago238]

Does macht’s thing even work on Gojo? Having cursed energy or a Toji level heavenly restriction provides resistance to curses, as shown in JJK0.

Anyway, I’ll probably favour Gojo just cause he’s way more likely to use his gibs fast in canon.

 

[Hiiilt]

Does macht’s thing even work on Gojo? Having cursed energy or a Toji level heavenly restriction provides resistance to curses, as shown in JJK0.

from the description of it i'd assume his transmutation and curse manip would be superior to the level gojo can resist

Enhanced Transmutation and Curse Manipulation (Di Agölze is the ultimate curse which even the goddess's magic, which can purify petrification, cannot purify)

but i agree with you that gojo can probably defeat macht before he uses it(unless that's a move he spams when fighting)

 

[Tatsumi504]

but i agree with you that gojo can probably defeat macht before he uses it(unless that's a move he spams when fighting)

Gojo defeating him before he uses it ain't happening

 

[Tago238]

Gojo defeating him before he uses it ain't happening

Macht goes entire fights without using it, though. Gojo on the other hand just one shots with a normal attack.

I’m not entirely sure why this thread exists, actually. The tier gap is too large.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Macht goes entire fights without using it, though.

Never happened unless you're counting assassinations he was sent on. There's no serious fight where he hasn't used it

I’m not entirely sure why this thread exists, actually. The tier gap is too large.

Probably cause macht can just turn him to gold and leave him like that

 

[Dr._whiteee]

from the description of it i'd assume his transmutation and curse manip would be superior to the level gojo can resist

What feats?

 

[Zabazab]

Macht can use Diagoldze to turn his cloak into an invincible shield, and at any moment could immediately use Diagoldze to turn Gojo into gold with a thought.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Keep in mind SBA asserts that they'll start 4 kilometers away from each other. That's Gojo's longest demonstrated attack range and coincidentally the maximum starting distance

The energy systems aren't similar, so no verse equalization, therefore they can't sense their verses' respective energies from each other

That being said, Macht will look to Gojo like a very interesting person who doesn't have Cursed Energy. He'd probably assume he has a Heavenly Restriction

Gojo is able to see him from kilometers away, so he starts with an advantage. He might snipe if he sees this strong-looking person with no Cursed Energy. A long-ranged assault is the first thing adult Gojo did in an encounter in which he didn't deliberately or have to exercise restraint

Though ignoring all that, what's the likelihood that Macht immediately transmutes someone he senses no mana from?

 

[Tatsumi504]

Keep in mind SBA asserts that they'll start 4 kilometers away from each other. That's Gojo's longest demonstrated attack range and coincidentally the maximum starting distance

The energy systems aren't similar, so no verse equalization, therefore they can't sense their verses' respective energies from each other

That being said, Macht will look to Gojo like a very interesting person who doesn't have Cursed Energy. He'd probably assume he has a Heavenly Restriction

Gojo is able to see him from kilometers away, so he starts with an advantage. He might snipe if he sees this strong-looking person with no Cursed Energy. A long-ranged assault is the first thing adult Gojo did in an encounter in which he didn't deliberately or have to exercise restraint

Isn't that his maximum range with purple? Macht sees it and transmutes his cloak into an indestructible shield to block it.

Though ignoring all that, what's the likelihood that Macht immediately transmutes someone he senses no mana from?

Guess it depends on Macht himself but he was transforming an entire country into gold at one point. I'm also pretty sure that everyone has mana in frieren

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Isn't that his maximum range with purple? Macht sees it and transmutes his cloak into an indestructible shield to block it.

He obviously doesn't need to fire from his largest demonstrated range. He can still Red from a lesser but still very long distance.

Also, Gojo's attacks can close distance before opponents with comparable reaction speed (such as Sukuna) can react in time to even try to dodge

 

[Zabazab]

Macht's ESP can sense people from SBA distance.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Macht's ESP can sense people from SBA distance.

Mana and Cursed Energy aren't mechanically similar. Neither would sense anything from each other. Unless there's something else he can sense, neither have useful ESP here

 

[Zabazab]

Mana and Cursed Energy aren't mechanically similar. Neither would sense anything from each other. Unless there's something else he can sense, neither have useful ESP here

Mana detection isn't just detecting Mana, it can detect things by using Mana too.

Mages detect El Dorado as being a giant mass of regular gold for example, and detect zero Mana within it.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Mana detection isn't just detecting Mana, it can detect things by using Mana too.

Mages detect El Dorado as being a giant mass of regular gold for example, and detect zero Mana within it.

Yeah, and SBA isn't a place with mana anywhere. Why would Gojo be singled out? He's effectively just another feature of the place

 

[Zabazab]

Yeah, and SBA isn't a place with mana anywhere. Why would Gojo be singled out? He's effectively just another feature of the place

No, you've misunderstood. If Mana Detection can tell a Mage that El Dora is a solid mass of pure gold, then it can detect more than just Mana.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

No, you've misunderstood. If Mana Detection can tell a Mage that El Dora is a solid mass of pure gold, then it can detect more than just Mana.

And how exactly will it detect Gojo? As far as I'm aware, it's a stretch to just assume it'll single out a guy in a real world location from kilometers away

 

[Zabazab]

If you don't think he can use Mana detection, there's still the fact that Gojo would still be distinguishable from 4km away even for normal human vision (The limit for seeing a 180cm tall person is ~8km), but Mages such as Fern have displayed the ability to accurately hit targets from outside of Mana detection's range. Even after all of that, Macht can block any attack with his transmuted cloak.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

If you don't think he can use Mana detection, there's still the fact that Gojo would still be distinguishable from 4km away even for normal human vision (The limit for seeing a 180cm tall person is ~8km), but Mages such as Fern have displayed the ability to accurately hit targets from outside of Mana detection's range. Even after all of that, Macht can block any attack with his transmuted cloak.

You're forgetting that the SBA location is Central Park. One, there's trees. Two, that also depends on the atmospheric conditions. And three, the Six Eyes allow Gojo to spot Macht way before the latter can notice him, if he even will

 

[Zabazab]

You're forgetting that the SBA location is Central Park. One, there's trees. Two, that also depends on the atmospheric conditions. And three, the Six Eyes allow Gojo to spot Macht way before the latter can notice him, if he even will

I don't think Macht would struggle to spot Gojo at all, again— Mages can snipe targets that are kilometres away, beyond the reach of Mana detection.

I also don't think it's very Gojo-like at all for him to sneak Macht, Gojo is very confrontational.

And if you really think Gojo will hide in the trees and Macht won't be able to find him, Macht will just turn all of NYC into gold to get it over with.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

I don't think Macht would struggle to spot Gojo at all, again— Mages can snipe targets that are kilometres away, beyond the reach of Mana detection.

That still pales in comparison to the extreme visual acuity and range of the Six Eyes. During the Goodwill Event, he very quickly identified the scope of the situation after breaking the veil

I also don't think it's very Gojo-like at all for him to sneak Macht, Gojo is very confrontational.

The first encounter involving Gojo that we see in the series, he gets snuck up on by Jogo. Even still, one of his opening attacks once he actually goes on the assault is Red. During the Goodwill Event, he went for a ranged attack. The next was the Shibuya Incident. He was directly called to the subway. And he couldn't use his attacks because of the AoE. After being released from the Prison Realm, he charged at Kenjaku since he knew he's far above him. And of course, he sniped Sukuna as an opening move

In this situation, he'll be seeing an interesting-looking person with zero Cursed Energy, which to him would mean a Heavenly Restriction. Given his past experience and the fact that he got snuck up on last time, and given that his opening move when he takes the initiative is a ranged attack, he will most likely do that

And if you really think Gojo will hide in the trees and Macht won't be able to find him, Macht will just turn all of NYC into gold to get it over with.

I'm thinking he'll survey the area from the sky

Oh and btw Cursed Energy has invulnerability negation for being used to exorcise Curses, who are invulnerable to physical damage. So that helps if for whatever reason the gold armor comes into play

 

[Zabazab]

Given his past experience and the fact that he got snuck up on last time, and given his opening move when he takes the initiative being a ranged attack, he will most likely do that

Then it's blocked with Macht's indestructable cloak.

I'm thinking he'll survey the area from the sky

That wouldn't save him, he'd still be transmuted.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Then it's blocked with Macht's indestructable cloak.

Gojo's long-range attacks can close distance before those with equal speed (Sukuna) can react fast enough to dodge

And Cursed Energy has invulnerability negation for harming Curses, who are invulnerable to physical harm. (For once that's actually a major factor lol)

That wouldn't save him, he'd still be transmuted.

That is if Gojo weren't much likelier to spot him and be on the uptake far quicker

 

[Zabazab]

Gojo's long-range attacks can close distance before those with equal speed (Sukuna) can react fast enough to dodge

Didn't say he'd dodge.

And Cursed Energy has invulnerability negation for harming Curses, who are invulnerable to physical harm. (For once that's actually a major factor lol)

I thought it was agreed upon that equalization wasn't going to be happening.

That is if Gojo weren't much likelier to spot him and be on the uptake far quicker

I don't know what you mean by this. This fight boils down to Macht's whims, it's instantly over as soon as he decides it's over. Diagoldze can't be detected, defended against, or reversed.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Didn't say he'd dodge.


I thought it was agreed upon that equalization wasn't going to be happening.

They don't. This isn't a case of verse equalization. For this specifically, it's just the case of one power's functionality bypassing a trait of an object

I don't know what you mean by this. This fight boils down to Macht's whims, it's instantly over as soon as he decides it's over. Diagoldze can't be detected, defended against, or reversed.

Why would he attack before he even registers the threat level? Let alone before actually seeing them

 

[The_Pink_God]

Surprised someone still didn't asked "Can Did Algöze bypass Infinity?"

 

[Arkenis]

Should be teen Gojo not Adult Gojo

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

This is a mismatch anyway. Gojo snipes or Macht transmutes (from what I'm gathering). Teen Gojo just makes it one-sided for Macht if he really transmutes just like that

 

[Zabazab]

They don't. This isn't a case of verse equalization. For this specifically, it's just the case of one power's functionality bypassing a trait of an object

The invulnerability of Cursed Spirits is to be unable to be damaged/exorcised by attacks that aren't imbued with Cursed Energy, it's a very Curse-specific thing, and wouldn't apply beyond Curses without equalization. Basically a being that needs a certain energy to be harmed ≠ a metal that cannot be destroyed or changed in shape.

Why would he attack before he even registers the threat level? Let alone before actually seeing them

Because he just does it whenever he feels like it. He doesn't think about it very hard, if he can't be bothered searching he'd just use Diagoldze.

 

[Arkenis]

The invulnerability negation of ce isn't just about the verse, it would apply to any character like cursed spirits. Macht's invul also has nothing cited for it besides it being indestructible in a verse of magic, not of curse energy or another. Gojo's Blue which is physics and gravity manipulation would be able to destroy Mach as he has unknown LS. So even just off Blue this is a stomp. If Macht really is just gonna transmute from tens of kilometers then its a stomp also.

 

[Tatsumi504]

The invulnerability negation of ce isn't just about the verse, it would apply to any character like cursed spirits. Macht's invul also has nothing cited for it besides it being indestructible in a verse of magic, not of curse energy or another.

I don't get your point

 

[Arkenis]

I don't get your point

invul in a world of magic ≠ invul to curse energy

 

[Tatsumi504]

invul in a world of magic ≠ invul to curse energy

That's what I'm not getting, are you saying CE will nullify the indestructibility of Macht's gold?

 

[Arkenis]

That's what I'm not getting, are you saying CE will nullify the indestructibility of Macht's gold?

Not nullify. It still be damaged by it basically.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Not nullify. It still be damaged by it basically.

Not really, this isn't a case of needing something specific to cause damage, Macht's transmutation actually produces indestructible gold

 

[Arkenis]

Not really, this isn't a case of needing something specific to cause damage, Macht's transmutation actually produces indestructible gold

Yeah in a world of magic and physical matter. Cursed Energy is neither. If the world had type 2 cm dura neg or some other shit its not gonna be invul to it. His invul is simply what its allowed in its verse, magic, and physical matter. And besides this, Gojo only needs to use Blue to crush him.