[LR4] 1st Island Ravagers Tournament - Prime Tomato vs. Marx Gemini (3-0-0)

[ExSENNA]

Welcome to the Fourth Round (thus the finals) of the Losers' Bracket of the 1st Island Ravagers Tournament! (Bracket) (Event Leaderboard)

On the blue corner, we have Prime Tomato, submitted by @FlipLaScript
On the red corner, we have Marx Gemini, submitted by @Rayfire
Duel 12, let's go!

---

Tomato is 370 Gigatons. Marx is 70 Gigatons. Tomato has 5.28x AP advantage.

---

Prime Tomato is used
Battle-suit Marx is used
Anything above High 6-C is restricted.
Starting distance is 20 meters.
Everything else is SBA.


Tomato:3
Marx:
Incon (coin flip):

 

[ExSENNA]

The winner of this match will go on to face Novua at the finals, thus, they will win either Silver Medal or Gold Medal!

The loser of this match overall ends up in 3rd place, thus wins Bronze medal!

 

[SSB64]

Let's go Marx! Don't let your victory over me be in vain!

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

The OP says Vacteria instead of Tomato.

Anyway, I believe Marx should take this. He has a lot more options up his sleeve and Boss Field can be used to take three of his attacks since they have a large ap advantage. During this time he can strategize and use the myriad of ways he can attack with using his battlesuit to win. He has summons to distract with, amps, danmaku, etc. Tomato doesn't resist many of Marx's stuff. According to their intelligence sections Marx seems a good deal smarter.

 

[SSB64]

The OP says Vacteria instead of Tomato.

She LIIIIIIVES! /j

 

[ExSENNA]

The OP says Vacteria instead of Tomato.

Lol. Guess I shouldn't have made the thread hastily while standing and in a crowded place while also communicating with two people

 

[SSB64]

Lol. Guess I shouldn't have made the thread hastily while standing and in a crowded place while also communicating with two people

Dang lol.

Also, I'm apparently repping Prime Tomato here.instead of FliplaScript

 

[ExSENNA]

Dang lol.

Also, I'm apparently repping Prime Tomato here.instead of FliplaScript

Fixed all of that before I made my previous post

Lemme know if I missed something lol

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Dang lol.

Also, I'm apparently repping Prime Tomato here.instead of FliplaScript

Is there a counter to my points

 

[SSB64]

Is there a counter to my points

IDK. I didn't submit Prime Tomato.

 

[FlipLaScript]

Time for opening arguments lets go

Due to Marx's Similarly to Vacteria's fight with Prime Tomato, I don't see too many abilities that would become strong issues. Explosion manipulation won't be a problem due to Prime Tomato directly tanking incredibly large explosions far stronger than those of the boss mines (at least from their description). Summons can be mostly negated by clones. The fear manipulation sounds much more like social influencing (instigating fear in specific), lacking enough scans to seriously be considered that ability. Prime Tomato has an incredibly heavy LS advantage, so Graviton Palms shouldn't be the largest issue.

The only one that looks to be the largest potential issue is the electricity manipulation, which Prime Tomato lacks a direct resistance to. However, there seems to be something that Prime Tomato has to negate most of this issue: I researched a little bit about the applications of lightning, and it looks like Prime Tomato won't be super affected by it...real life lightning causes mainly burns (heat, that of which prime tomato has a heavy resistance to), and electrocution only if there's a conductor (something like metal or an equivalent). For death by electric chair, a human has to have some conductors placed on them for the electricity to work for similar reasons. Prime Tomato doesn't have any conductors attached to him, so given the effects of IRL lightning and the attack description (that it destroys surrounding ground) it'll act much more like an incredibly hot AP attack - one that Prime Tomato can tank due to his far higher AP and his incredible heat resistance.

On that note, Prime Tomato has plenty of stuff that can hurt Marx. If the 5.28x AP advantage wasn't enough, Prime Tomato's heat is enough to vaporize him, which is one-shot potential and enough to negate his Mid regeneration due to turning the dude to ash. He does have information analysis, but it's limited to getting an opponent's disaster level. Looking at the One-Punch Man page on VSBW and characters who scale relatively to Prime Tomato's AP, this should put him at the level of a Class S hero or a Dragon Level threat. IDK what this means exactly but yeah :3

Regardless, Marx is likely going to push Prime Tomato into his 3rd form really quickly given his danmaku and noticeable abilities. Marx is going to have to deal with Prime Tomato's fear aura (that of which he lacks a resistance to and may make his moves sloppier), blitz-level speed amps, clones and telekinesis (that of which seems to be one of the few abilities that can bypass his shields, something that previous characters have struggled with). While not super noticeable, his regeneration and Marx's lack of AP/abilities to hurt him will be enough to allow Prime Tomato to not take any sustained damage.

This is a close match for sure, but Prime Tomato does have the edge >:3

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Time for opening arguments lets go

Due to Marx's Similarly to Vacteria's fight with Prime Tomato, I don't see too many abilities that would become strong issues. Explosion manipulation won't be a problem due to Prime Tomato directly tanking incredibly large explosions far stronger than those of the boss mines (at least from their description). Summons can be mostly negated by clones. The fear manipulation sounds much more like social influencing (instigating fear in specific), lacking enough scans to seriously be considered that ability. Prime Tomato has an incredibly heavy LS advantage, so Graviton Palms shouldn't be the largest issue.

The only one that looks to be the largest potential issue is the electricity manipulation, which Prime Tomato lacks a direct resistance to. However, there seems to be something that Prime Tomato has to negate most of this issue: I researched a little bit about the applications of lightning, and it looks like Prime Tomato won't be super affected by it...real life lightning causes mainly burns (heat, that of which prime tomato has a heavy resistance to), and electrocution only if there's a conductor (something like metal or an equivalent). For death by electric chair, a human has to have some conductors placed on them for the electricity to work for similar reasons. Prime Tomato doesn't have any conductors attached to him, so given the effects of IRL lightning and the attack description (that it destroys surrounding ground) it'll act much more like an incredibly hot AP attack - one that Prime Tomato can tank due to his far higher AP and his incredible heat resistance.

On that note, Prime Tomato has plenty of stuff that can hurt Marx. If the 5.28x AP advantage wasn't enough, Prime Tomato's heat is enough to vaporize him, which is one-shot potential and enough to negate his Mid regeneration due to turning the dude to ash. He does have information analysis, but it's limited to getting an opponent's disaster level. Looking at the One-Punch Man page on VSBW and characters who scale relatively to Prime Tomato's AP, this should put him at the level of a Class S hero or a Dragon Level threat. IDK what this means exactly but yeah :3

Regardless, Marx is likely going to push Prime Tomato into his 3rd form really quickly given his danmaku and noticeable abilities. Marx is going to have to deal with Prime Tomato's fear aura (that of which he lacks a resistance to and may make his moves sloppier), blitz-level speed amps, clones and telekinesis (that of which seems to be one of the few abilities that can bypass his shields, something that previous characters have struggled with). While not super noticeable, his regeneration and Marx's lack of AP/abilities to hurt him will be enough to allow Prime Tomato to not take any sustained damage.

This is a close match for sure, but Prime Tomato does have the edge >:3

Tomato has a grand total of three resistances, and none of them really matter that much. Marx's main methods are not based in heat or shockwaves. Marx has his own fear to counter Tomato's (again, not resisted. Also, for the 'lack of feats thing' do keep in mind the allies referenced on his page are all robots. Robots which typically lack such an emotion. Do with that what you will), he does not resist Boss Gas, a move Marx tries often, or Boss Wave which is in a similar boat, does not resist gravity manipulation, doesn't resist the affects of Abliter's suppression mode (based on previous matches summons are legal), and needs three actual solid hits in a row to effectively do any damage since Boss Field will tank the hits.

 

[SSB64]

The winner of this match will go on to face Novua at the finals, thus, they will win either Silver Medal or Gold Medal!

There's something else you forgot.

If Prime Tomato wins, then this is the final match of the Tourney, as he would then fight and lose to Novua again.

 

[FlipLaScript]

Also, I'm apparently repping Prime Tomato here.instead of FliplaScript

NUH UH :0000

 

[FlipLaScript]

Also, for the 'lack of feats thing' do keep in mind the allies referenced on his page are all robots. Robots which typically lack such an emotion. Do with that what you will

The robots within Venefica Chronicles do seem to have emotion. In Albiter's summary, it was stated that he "took the words to heart and vowed to rise the ranks. In time, he vowed he would be the greatest suppressor of all time, stomping upon the grave of his former boss." That is a want for revenge there. Grender Supervoltix is described to have "[taken] a liking to the ‚Ultima‘ machine", which is personal preference. Albion's page states "When Puppet Master tells him they will wait anyway, he grows mildly disappointed, since he wanted the ability to observe all the fights at once out in the open." and "vows to kill the heroes himself to study them.", which is both disappointment and a want for something. Since Marx made many of his robots, it's possible that he coded them to be scared of him too, given that giving them that bit of coding would make them much less likely to betray them :0

he does not resist Boss Gas, a move Marx tries often, or Boss Wave which is in a similar boat, does not resist gravity manipulation, doesn't resist the affects of Abliter's suppression mode (based on previous matches summons are legal), and needs three actual solid hits in a row to effectively do any damage since Boss Field will tank the hits.

Ignoring that sleep manipulation isn't listed on the profile anywhere (nor sound manipulation for Boss Waves), Boss Gas doesn't seem to have any higher than several meters range, and wont entirely matter since the 2 will be moving quickly enough to be out of the gas' range regardless (He isn't the type to stop moving, he didn't for even a single moment while fighting Helse Syr and it will more than likely be the case here) >;3

As for the others:

• Boss Wave would be effective but isnt permanent and isn't a starting move, with an unknown range to boot (given the description I doubt it's any more than tens of meters, but I don't know that and you do :3).
• I was surprised by this, but uh...suppression mode isn't mentioned on Marx's profile at all. Do you have any description for what it does? :0
• He doesn't resist gravity manipulation, but he has a much higher LS, which would be an effective counter >:3
• With speed amps and clones + additional explosion manipulation, the boss fields can be passed. Since they don't have resistances to this amount of heat, can they be melted through?

Out of interest, how will Marx be affected by Prime Tomato's fear aura? Also, most of the match here is going to be close range, as Prime Tomato lacks too many long-range options outside of telekinesis + Albiter has plenty of long-range options.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

The robots within Venefica Chronicles do seem to have emotion. In Albiter's summary, it was stated that he "took the words to heart and vowed to rise the ranks. In time, he vowed he would be the greatest suppressor of all time, stomping upon the grave of his former boss." That is a want for revenge there. Grender Supervoltix is described to have "[taken] a liking to the ‚Ultima‘ machine", which is personal preference. Albion's page states "When Puppet Master tells him they will wait anyway, he grows mildly disappointed, since he wanted the ability to observe all the fights at once out in the open." and "vows to kill the heroes himself to study them.", which is both disappointment and a want for something. Since Marx made many of his robots, it's possible that he coded them to be scared of him too, given that giving them that bit of coding would make them much less likely to betray them :0

No, that was Mega-X Abliter, the entirely more complex form of Abliter who gained this sentience after his revival (granted, I realize this isn't clear at all on the page. His page is very old...). Marx also built Abliter and is someone who really doesn't care for emotions at all. You'll notice that Cobalt's emotions led to her eventual betrayal, it's only logical that he'd want to prevent that as much as possible. Grender doesn't have traditional emotions at all it's just a case of 'seek and kill' for him. Taking a liking or interest in something isn't automatically a sign of more complex emotions like fear. Albion is a more upgraded model, much moreso than the ones Marx was around, and also was not built by Marx.

Also no you cant tell the author what a character could have possibly done, i can tell you for a fact he didnt program them to fear him and he isnt the one who built the robots or battlesuit anyway so it's impossible. Another character named Janus built the suit and robots. He did, however, personally create Abliter, as I said above

Ignoring that sleep manipulation isn't listed on the profile anywhere (nor sound manipulation for Boss Waves), Boss Gas doesn't seem to have any higher than several meters range, and wont entirely matter since the 2 will be moving quickly enough to be out of the gas' range regardless (He isn't the type to stop moving, he didn't for even a single moment while fighting Helse Syr and it will more than likely be the case here) >;3

As for the others:

• Boss Wave would be effective but isnt permanent and isn't a starting move, with an unknown range to boot (given the description I doubt it's any more than tens of meters, but I don't know that and you do :3).
• I was surprised by this, but uh...suppression mode isn't mentioned on Marx's profile at all. Do you have any description for what it does? :0
• He doesn't resist gravity manipulation, but he has a much higher LS, which would be an effective counter >:3
• With speed amps and clones + additional explosion manipulation, the boss fields can be passed. Since they don't have resistances to this amount of heat, can they be melted through?

Out of interest, how will Marx be affected by Prime Tomato's fear aura? Also, most of the match here is going to be close range, as Prime Tomato lacks too many long-range options outside of telekinesis + Albiter has plenty of long-range options.

The fact that he won’t stop moving doesn’t mean much really. I mean, Marx isn’t exactly the kind to stay still either, and neither are the people he ended up fighting in the story. Even if he moves quickly if he still breathes it in he’ll experience some form of its effect. Even a relatively minor one may give Marx the right opening.

I may have neglected to include them in the P&A, but they are present.

• Boss Wave: Marx directs his hand forward and blasts a repeating wave of sound which disorients his opponent and traps them in a loop of full body pain. The sound is ear piercing and interferes with opponent brain signals, hurting their abilities to think at their regular capacities. It's much stronger than Abliter's Pluto Wave and disorients the technological programing of other robots and machines.
• Boss Gas: Marx releases a sleeping gas from the various laser openings on his suit. The gas is potent enough to effect Cobalt, who was unaffected by Abliter's gas. Marx uses it to put his enemies into an instant stasis. He blasts it omnidirectionally, making the gas hard to dodge, and preventing himself from being affected. After the initial firing, it continues to spread around the area slowly, affecting any who breath it in. It is much stronger than Abliter's version, as the gas can even disable technology when said tech is within the cloud of smoke. Marx is unaffected because his helmet filters it out.

Suppression mode is Abliter's big contribution, you can see his profile for all it does.

Marx is a genius, it would be weird to think the Graviton palms can only be used to attack. Gravity is extremely versatile in the right hands.

No, they'll absorb the thermal energy. Unless it's like, way absurdly high, I guess. The pure ap part is tough but he can still avoid it. Another thing he could do is also have all his summons spam their cannons into his Boss Fields until his stats catch up, but that may take too long to be viable. he and Abliter could form a strategy to make it work, though, since Supression Mode can sap energy directly from Tomato and Abliter could then transfer it over via the Boss Field.

The fear aura, as i said in Novua's match, doesn't really have feats or descriptiveness so I can't tell you much. I guess it would affect him but outside of making him nervous and/or more cautious I doubt it will mean much. As I said he has his own to counter it. When he got scared against Cobalt he basically went insane and became a monster, if that means anything.

He risks a lot fighting at close range, Marx has numerous close range options. Speaking of, so does Abliter.

 

[SSB64]

If the 5.28x AP advantage

The x5.28 advantage is actually smaller than that, as the 70 Gigaton scale is for the Parasite Kings, whom Boss Mode Marx should be much stronger than.

 

[ExSENNA]

whooo wins??

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

whooo wins??

If I remember right tomato has a 60 times speed amp, so the debate itself is probably meaningless but if im wrong about that I like Marx’s chances.

 

[ExSENNA]

If I remember right tomato has a 60 times speed amp, so the debate itself is probably meaningless but if im wrong about that I like Marx’s chances.

Well Marx is normally much faster than him so I would not permit that speed amp anyway if that's like the reason he ends up winning here as he is normally slower

 

[SSB64]

If I remember right tomato has a 60 times speed amp, so the debate itself is probably meaningless

If that's a major factor, then it gets restricted, so I wouldn't worry too much about the amp.

 

[FlipLaScript]

Also no you cant tell the author what a character could have possibly done, i can tell you for a fact he didnt program them to fear him and he isnt the one who built the robots or battlesuit anyway so it's impossible. Another character named Janus built the suit and robots. He did, however, personally create Abliter, as I said above

I meant it as a possible thing lol, no disrespect there :3

whooo wins??

This is going to take a few days at a minimum, unfortunately...my time allotted on screens is limited to not much over an hour per day, and most of that time is focused on this matchup thread. I can only send up to 2 replies here per day and that's only if both me and vene can fire off enough replies in succession :0

The fact that he won’t stop moving doesn’t mean much really. I mean, Marx isn’t exactly the kind to stay still either, and neither are the people he ended up fighting in the story. Even if he moves quickly if he still breathes it in he’ll experience some form of its effect. Even a relatively minor one may give Marx the right opening.

In that case, the gas is likely to have minimal effects on the match. It's not described to fire for a long time, and since the gas doesn't move by itself the best he'll get is a minor effect...since he's incredibly serious when it comes to his 3rd form (it's said in the comic that it's his second to third time of actually using it) a little doziness won't have a crazy enough effect :u

Suppression mode is Abliter's big contribution, you can see his profile for all it does.

Marx is a genius, it would be weird to think the Graviton palms can only be used to attack. Gravity is extremely versatile in the right hands.

If suppression mode is just the multiple amps, they wont do too much. Prime Tomato already has a large enough AP gap and the speed amp can be countered by Prime Tomato's own :0

I mean like...in a combat scenario, wouldn't attacking be the main application? I'm not saying he wouldn't be able to use it in other ways (clearing debris or cover & the such), but his goal here is to kill Prime Tomato - the best way to do so is to attack :v

No, they'll absorb the thermal energy. Unless it's like, way absurdly high, I guess.

OOO MATH MY FAVORITE

As explained in his match against Novua, his heat value is 332,800 degrees celsius. Meanwhile, Marx's resistance is stated to be superior to Albiter, who can easily resist heats of 500 degrees celsius. At the very most, Prime Tomato's heat will be 665.6x Marx's heat resistance. I understand that this heavily upscales for multiple reasons (albiter has this resistance, marx has a higher version and his boss mode may have an even higher version), but it seems more than enough to melt through the thing even with the stacking upscaling>:3

Another thing he could do is also have all his summons spam their cannons into his Boss Fields until his stats catch up, but that may take too long to be viable. he and Abliter could form a strategy to make it work, though, since Supression Mode can sap energy directly from Tomato and Abliter could then transfer it over via the Boss Field.

The second summons come up Prime Tomato is probably going to send out clones for them - he did this as his starting move for Helse Syr to test out his strength. Either that or he'll begin doing AOE attacks (explosion manipulation, making giant craters/large chunks of land with telekinesis, etc). As for the boss field, it's likely going to be melted through as explained previously :3

The fear aura, as i said in Novua's match, doesn't really have feats or descriptiveness so I can't tell you much. I guess it would affect him but outside of making him nervous and/or more cautious I doubt it will mean much. As I said he has his own to counter it. When he got scared against Cobalt he basically went insane and became a monster, if that means anything.

That would be incredibly disadvantageous in normal circumstances, but since anything above High 6-C is restricted it's likely that his Monster-Cyborg form will also be restricted.

As for his fear manip, I doubt that it'll do too much for the dude - Prime Tomato lacks too much emotion (he leads much more with his head than with his heart, as shown with most of his quotes. the most he's shown is annoyance, so that'll probably be what the fear response to Marx's is - not something that'll help out too much :0

Do you know how quickly he'll summon his summons within a match? :3

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

If suppression mode is just the multiple amps, they wont do too much. Prime Tomato already has a large enough AP gap and the speed amp can be countered by Prime Tomato's own :0

If Abliter is at any point within 15 meters of him he'll be able to sap his energy. Suppression Whip would also successfully paralyze him landed which would basically give Marx a free opening to land a winning blow.

I mean like...in a combat scenario, wouldn't attacking be the main application? I'm not saying he wouldn't be able to use it in other ways (clearing debris or cover & the such), but his goal here is to kill Prime Tomato - the best way to do so is to attack :v

He has plenty of other methods to attack, the Graviton Palms are support

As explained in his match against Novua, his heat value is 332,800 degrees celsius. Meanwhile, Marx's resistance is stated to be superior to Albiter, who can easily resist heats of 500 degrees celsius. At the very most, Prime Tomato's heat will be 665.6x Marx's heat resistance. I understand that this heavily upscales for multiple reasons (albiter has this resistance, marx has a higher version and his boss mode may have an even higher version), but it seems more than enough to melt through the thing even with the stacking upscaling>:3

Marx doesn't survive this. So, I guess that ends the fight

That would be incredibly disadvantageous in normal circumstances, but since anything above High 6-C is restricted it's likely that his Monster-Cyborg form will also be restricted.

Even though this is over, I did want to take the time to say that I doubt he'd become the Monster-Cyborg. Part of why he Monsterized to the degree that he did and became so strong was the fact that he genuinely could not comprehend or handle the fact that not only did cobalt stand up to him, but also surpassed him in power and intellect, and he's so evil and arrogant and controlling that having his control challenged to that degree was enough to drive him insane.

In this scenario, if he were to monsterize, it wouldn't be quite so potent since I dont think he would be driven to madness. He'd most likely still be within the parameters allowed for this tournament, probably as a 'lite' version of what he really became but im not sure whether he'd fully fuse with his battlesuit or not. Whether or not that would allow him to win, I also don't know. But at least that would be more interesting.

 

[FlipLaScript]

If Abliter is at any point within 15 meters of him he'll be able to sap his energy. Suppression Whip would also successfully paralyze him landed which would basically give Marx a free opening to land a winning blow.

just goes to show the sheer amount of options he has lol

Marx doesn't survive this. So, I guess that ends the fight

oh, ok!
Prime Tomato FRA then :0

 

[SSB64]

Marx doesn't survive this. So, I guess that ends the fight

Either way, you win lol.

 

[ExSENNA]

Tomato wins? Then I suppose I don't need to make the next thread since Tomato would face and lose to Novua again. So tourney is over?

 

[SSB64]

Tomato wins? Then I suppose I don't need to make the next thread since Tomato would face and lose to Novua again. So tourney is over?

Yeah pretty much.