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Lancer (Johann) vs Alex (Wasteland Country)

GreyFang82

GreyFang82

He/Him
2,748
330
Lancer (Johann) vs Alex (Wasteland Country)

Both at 7-B ratings

Speed equalized

Lancer cannot use the reality marble to BFR, and we will assume Lancer cannot negate Alex's powers

Fight starts off with both of them 2 meters apart from each other

They fight until either one is knocked-out, incapacitated, or dead

who wins and why?

Lancer: 0

Alex: 1 (BlackDarkness679)

Inconclusive: 0
 
Alex for regen,attack reflection,durability negation and resistance to some of Lancer hax,not to mention Lancer is possibly 7-A while Alex not really
 
Johan's presence significantly reduces feelings of courage and hope and Resistances to Mind Manipulation, and it gets worse the longer the enemy remains in his presence. Combine that with Inciement crushing Alex's dreams, prespective and ideals, Imps Maddening crushing his fighting spirit and plunging him into despair while also decreasing his strength and speed, and the fear aura of Azazel's stakes, and chances are quite high that Alex just commits suicide.

Johann can also instantly drag them both into a world of flame (its not BFR) and then combine that with Abbaddon to make the flames poisonous and soul burning. Additionally, while within this pocket dimension, Johann can summon up to 2000 stakes instantly from any physical object, and up to 20,000 in existence simultaneously. Additionally, if his spear so much as touches Alex, Alex's heart gets impaled by stakes from the inside out.

Additionally, Johann also has equal Regenerationn to Alex, as all Servants do, so he can regen broken bones. He can also just teleport around using his pocket dimension as a launch pad.

Also, Alex is a monk. He qualifies as "saint or enlightened one". Why are you restricting Lancer's power null?
 
I assume This because there are no real monk in my verse, what I call and other call souls are actually just a higher dimensional version of a go pro, basically imagine Alex's soul as a go pro connected to his whole nervious system with an insane battery and Alex is taught how to tap into that battery which is why he gains these powers. But it's sounding like this is a stomp based on your descriptions and info. Is this a stomp or not? If so I can close this.
 
Not really a stomp. Johann has no resistances to soul manipulation, so depending on how he uses his aura, Alex could take him down with one hit, plus Alex is a solid mountain level+ while Lancer is only definitely mountain level with Azazel. How does Alex's attack reflection work?
 
It has two types, there is an off guard one where the aura just barely does anything, the one that matters is when Alex focuses he aura to make his whole body reflect projectile attacks.
 
Yeah, he can bounce it back at the person who shot it if he wanted to or he can just let it naturally bounce off in random directions if it's too overwhelming in numbers or speed.
 
Would it work against fire (His Lucifer ability teleports them to a pocket dimension where everything is on fire, including the air) and is it like a magical forcefield?
 
Pretty sure Aura would classify as magic under verse equalisation. Unless you have something else that is magic and aura is completely different.
 
Well the aura comes from the the whole "soul" thing I should probably change that to just strictly attack reflection.
 
Anyway though, using Lucifer (offensively) first thing is out of character for Johann. He tends to hold it back, and that subsequently limits his ability to use Azazel.

He'd start with his mind manipulation, initially using Incitement in conjuction with Anti-Christ, then layering on Imps Maddening, and then finally use Azazel from his own body to get the fear effect.

If Alex is still wanting to fight after all that, Johann would start using his cloak, spear (it won't cause insta-impale as long as it isn't in his reality marble / territory), and Abbadon to attack.

If Alex is still alive after that, then he'll use Lucifer

However, him using Lucifer to teleport and dodge attacks is in character, he just won't use it offensively to start.
 
Yeah I don't know how well Alex would stand up to that, the worst Alex fought is a severely weakened cosmic horror that would obviously mind rape almost everything, but the layers and degree at which you discribe is hard to compare. Also I'm gonna assume Johann abviously wouldn't have a soul so Alex couldn't track him. If He could resist those attacks Alex's first action would most likely be to duplicate and try and feel his opponent out. I don't know how well he'd deal with a teleporter to Johann's degree and without his "soul sensing" he would have to rely on his vision, but at the same time his duplicates also have eyes so that may help him avoid attacks. But the instant impale is hard to stop the only thing he can hope for is Johann to target a duplicate.
 
Johann would have a soul actually. Servants are fundamentally spiritual beings, Johann even more so due to the unnatural nature of his existence
 
And the auto impale only works in Johann's territory and comes from the spear, which can't exactly be used against more than 3 or 4 people at once, so duplicTes would be a good way to counter it
 
Servants have similar biology (though it's made of a different, magical, form of matter) and weakspots to humans. So martial arts targetting his bones will definitely work, its just a matter of his Regenerationn healing him. Not that servant Regenerationn is the fastest, its just barely combat applicable, and requires mana so it isn't limitless.

Breathing idk. Not in his spirit form at least.
 
I was asking because if Alex can resist Johann's mind manip., and he can avoid getting impaled instantly, his first course of action would be to get up close to him take him down and try to either keep him in a choke hold or break his limbs. If he can manage that, it might help him a bit in this fight, but with Johann's teleportaion and spirit form he could escape. The only thing he could do is to try and break his arm as quickly as possible but it's iffy.
 
Considering the ability of Anti-Christ to reduce resistance to mind manip, he'd need to finish the fight quickly, otherwise he'd just collapse from terror and hopelessness.

Like I said, Johann doesn't use Lucifer offensively first thing, which means he can't use the stakes to their fullest ability, only being able to summon them from within his body.

Oh, speaking of which though, Johann will summon his stakes within his body to reinforce himself. So if his bones are broken, he'd probably just summon a stake in his own flesh to replace the bone.

Which would still hurt like hell and be internally damaging, but it would at least let him reduce the effects of having his bones broken.
 
So here's what I'm seeing here (if you disagree at any point please tell me), Alex will have to try and take out Johann as quickly as possible (the longer the fight the less likely he is to fight back) and the first thing he would do is to create dupicates and try to rush Johann. I feel like any type of close combat Alex has in edge due to his ability to take down Johann to the floor and get him into most locks he chooses. However Alex cannot knock Johann out by choking him out due to his ability to dissipate and teleport, but Alex might have the ability to break his limbs. Doing so would force Johann to summon his stakes into his limbs so he can still fight albeit hindered by some pain. Alex's only chance it to catch Johann with a good punch and try and knock him out. The problem is that Johann has a good amount of ranged attack to try and slow Alex's advancement and has a decent ability to gain distance. Alex has the ability to survive Johann's attacks for a bit but he still has to hope he'll land a hit quick or else like you said Joahnn's Fear and Mind manipulaion will eat away at him and make him unable to fight.

How long do you think Alex could last before Johann's Mind Manipulation will over take Alex?
 
Spirit form wouldn't help, seeing as it is basically just making him into an invisible spirit, which Alex's soul sensing and soul attacks would counter.

Other than that, yeah. Agree with the analysis.

How good is Alex's resistance to mind manip? What are his feats?
 
He's had 2 major feats, being able to resist mind manipulation from a psychic telepath (it's mostly just sutle suggestions that would hinder a person's thinking) and one during the end game where he resists being mind raped by a (weakened) comsic horror (basically the creature has the ability to cause complete brain aneurysms, insanity, and even a form of nervous system lobotomy.) But this is more just the mental equivalent punching a person's brain and see what happens not really a mental weight or a fear based attack.
 
well if we are trying to be as fair and realistic as possible knowing at least an estimate of how long he would last would greatly help others vote accurately. be brutaly honest so others can know who to vote for.
 
Realistically speaking, the feat of resisting subtle suggestings and "brain punches" would only give him a few seconds before his resistances to mind manip are completely gone.

His only chance would be to stop Johann from speaking somehow, then kill Johann before he can bring out his other abilities.

How long it takes his bravery and hope to be stripped away could take a bit longer. How brave/hopeful is he?

Alex can win this by charging up with his duplicaes and getting one good hit thanks to soul attacks and higher physical AP, so it's not really a stomp, but I do not like his chances. 9/10 times, Johann's going to win a fight between them.
 
Well as of now (during the end game) he's fought some insane things and has a strong spirit. I'd say he would be pretty brave, for example during his fight with the cosmic horror he duplucated himself and forced them to carry his incapacitated friends to safety while fighting it off by himself (while knowing 1 hit from it would insta kill him). As for his hope, I'd say it's pretty high as well (at the end of the game) he's pretty idealsic, thinking that he can help make everything better.
 
well, I assume that's all we can really talk about for this matchup. If there is anything you'd like to bring up, please do. If not I guess we have to wait for other people to vote for the victor.
 
Generally, if the creators of the two characters agree who would win, it can be added after the grace period
 
Ok, I agree with you that Alex would lose this fight. How long is the grace period again?
 
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