Khimera Revision (Last One for a While, I think)

[Jackythejack]

So, as you all know, I'm the only suppoter for the verse Khimera: Destroy All Monster Girls, and since then it went from a 9-A verse with one character to a verse approaching High 8-C and including many more powers than I expected it to. However, this is probably going to be my last CRT for a while, until there is either a sequel or more information is revelealed, like in Khimera 2 or Khimera Picross: Puzzle Island. This won't include much but it will have some interesting results in it.

Amelia

The addition I wanted to make to Amelia is more of a possibility if anything. Currently I have her listed as a Genius for designing the giant airship known as the Albatross all on her own, however, I was thinking that she should possibly be upgraded to Extraordinary Genius? If not that's fine, but I think the main reason why this should be is because she's able to impress the Professor, who was able to create life and the world's first synthetic khimera/monster girl. At the very least she should have this mentioned on her intelligence section, especially when the professor himself even says her designs on the airship are revolutionary, which means that she has to be incredibly smart in likely multiple fields. At the very least I think we should give her a possibly higher.

Mimi

Another intelligence upgrade, mainly. Mimi is stated in her backstory to be a teacher at an illustrious school of magic, and was able to create her signature style of magic, her roulette style. This allows her to cast spells that she normally wouldn't be able to (likely due to limitations or just learning magic is difficult), I feel like this should at least get her gifted, possibly genius as creating a new branch of magic is pretty big, and the only examples of magic we've seen is standard and limiting elemental magic.

It is also stated that she is at least three hundred years old and still has a youthful appearance through unknown means, so this should be Longevity

Bernadine

So, this is really simple. In her boss fight, Bernadine can summon two clones of herself to smash down onto the ground for a shockwave attack. All I'm saying is that we should give her Duplication. A simple addition, I don't see a problem here.

Chelshia

Oh boy this one is a tough one. So, what I'm suggesting is that we give Chelshia some type of Immortality. Now, the reason why I say this is because we already know that she is fully aware of the constant deaths that she can suffer from, as she comments in the scan I linked. Now this could easily be seen as a simple fourth wall awareness, however, there is also an in-universe reason for this. The checkpoint system is run by a girl named Estylia, who openly states she lets Chelshia respaw. According to the lore books as well, this is just a thing Gorgons do, and even implies that it's only really happening for Chelshia, which is even better evidence, if you ask me.

Not only that but there's also an extra detail that really confirms it's Estylia doing the reviving and such. If you turn off the checkpoints, and therefor the general respawning mechanic, you'll see her in town just chilling and waiting for you to turn on checkpoints once again, and until then, Chelshia can't respawn anymore. I'd say this is an in-universe explanation for immortality, either type 4 or type 8.

So...yeah. Discuss?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Thoughts:

Genius is fine, Extraordinary Genius tends to require... well extraordinary evidence, I guess.

Gifted, possibly Genius sounds fine for Mimi. Longevity is also fine.

If that isn't like... Afterimage Creation, or anything, then yeah, sure, simple enough. Limited Duplication sounds fine.

For Chelshia, the first scan sounds a lot more like 4th Wall Awareness (haha look at me I'm inna game) than outright Immortality. The respawn thing also sounds like game mechanics being fluffed up but ultimately if we decide she just has Type 8 via Respawns then I can begrudgingly accept that.

 

[Jackythejack]

Alright, so Genius just gets fluffed up some, Mimi gets an intelligence upgrade. Gotcha.

How would I be able to tell if it's afterimage creation or not? Just curious. They appear on three different points of the room and slam down in different areas, making different shockwaves.

I'm willing to compromise on type 8 via respawning. I wouldn't expect anything else but type 8 if I'm tbh. I just thought it seems too relevant and mentioned in-verse to not be a thing.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Semi-transparent? Disappearing immediately after? Idk it just sounds weird to duplicate for one ability, honestly it ain't a big deal but I can't exactly see the visual representation. I'm cool with adding limited Duplication.

Like I said, I can accept this but I'm very much iffy so I'd rather wait.

 

[Jackythejack]

Yeah I was gonna wait for more input anyways about the immortality.

Honestly if that's the case it may be afterimage creation. They disappear immediately after and also sorta blink in and out before doing so so...I wouldn't kind afterimage creation.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Then yeah I'd prefer that application if you don't mind. Afterimage seems more likely than Duplication.

 

[Jackythejack]

Alright. I can do that too. Afterimage creation it is, then. I am nothing if not reasonable-

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

Agree with Bambu on most. As for the Type 8, it's explained in game as someone else bringing her back, so I don't see why it'd be just game mechanics, seems a similar case to The Lich (Enter the Gungeon).

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Agree with Bambu on most. As for the Type 8, it's explained in game as someone else bringing her back, so I don't see why it'd be just game mechanics, seems a similar case to The Lich (Enter the Gungeon).

I mean fair, good comparison, the main difference is that even in Chelshia's verse it is explained... in terms of game mechanics. Hence my hesitation.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Extraordinary Genius takes more than that. Those feats aren't exactly to that degree. Genius level sure. A decently good version of it. But not quite Extraordinary

I would agree with At least Gifted, Possibly Genius. Tho I kinda think it is a genius if she downright created new branching in magic, plus her experience and how long she has done it. At least Genius in magic. Longevity is straight forward

Can you link the duplication happening in a fight?

The first part definitely sounds more fourth wall breaking. Not really immortality. Just a Deadpool moment.

The second one seems possible. But I see issues too. It can easily be just a game mechanic. Especially since no other character acknowledges it. This may just be a Game Mechanic, just with a comedic Fourth wall awareness vibe.

 

[Jackythejack]

I can get a link for it later just not right now. In the middle of doing something else and my phone is gonna die soon.

I mean, when she brings it up other characters don't question it, there's an in-universe reason for this immortality, other games have something sorta similar, and I don't think it particularly breaks anything when even the fairly reliable lore books give information on it. It could just be that "checkpoints" are what they call them too, to be fair. Verses have their own terminology in things, after all.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Alright.

Still feels like there's issues. It's not like they acknowledged her existence at all at any point. Them not questioning it is more a game mechanic and cause she isn't talking to them. And nobody questions how she suddenly comes back or even acknowledged it happens. Going through the same shtick when she comes back.

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

Main thing that I think supports it is that there's specifically a person bringing her back. It's not like, her just resurrecting and the game mentioning it happens, it's the game saying how it happens, giving a proper explanation for it. Based on that, I think it should be fine to consider canon and not game mechanics.

 

[Jackythejack]

Actually when you respawn the characters cut any pre-boss dialogue. The part where she mentions every spike death and pitfall death being washed away is replied with by an "isnt it, though?" Which is sort of saying "I understand what you mean. The water is just that nice." So she does mention dying and people react to it like normal.

 

[Buttersamuri]

I don't feel comfortable with it. That maybe a very helpful point. But the holes still seem to large. It's acknowledged as resurrection, yet it's never questioned or brought up by anyone else. She can die in a boss, come back, and it's not acknowledged at all. Not even different dialogue. Not even the existence of said character doing it is acknowledged.

 

[Jackythejack]

It's not even different dialogue there's just no dialogue and they get right to the point. I dunno if this helps or hinders I just need to state that.

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

I don't feel comfortable with it. That maybe a very helpful point. But the holes still seem to large. It's acknowledged as resurrection, yet it's never questioned or brought up by anyone else. She can die in a boss, come back, and it's not acknowledged at all. Not even different dialogue. Not even the existence of said character doing it is acknowledged.

And? Not all verses acknowledge this stuff that much, refer to my example of Gungeon and its bosses for that and that was still accepted just fine. People reacting to it isn't a requirement for it to be considered canon, and besides, it seems that people do react to it, just not all of them. If we're using that argument, then what's the standard? Does everyone need to react to it? If so then remove it from like every verse, because no verse has everyone react to that. Do some people do? If so, then where do we draw the line? This seems like a pretty clear cut case of being canon in universe, the only argument against it is the terms used, but even those can just be the terms in universe.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Eh. I'm iffy on it. If it is used. It at least should be a limited then. As she has no control over it, and doesn't even have it in a way that would heal her always close to a battle field. Gotta be at a checkpoint. It wouldn't have much combat usage

I'm not exactly on board with it though. Just feels like extreme fourth wall breaking, which does fit the style of the game.

 

[Jackythejack]

I mean it could have combat usage depending on the checkpoint and stuff. Like I said I don't expect much to come from it, I just think it should be mentioned on the profile

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

How would it be fourth wall breaking if a character is stated to be brought back by a specific other character?

I genuinely don't see the argument here.

Also it would have combat usage, look at Dark Souls and its bonfires for an example.

 

[Jackythejack]

Oh! I forgot to add something. Khimera as a whole should be downgraded to likely Transonic levels when it comes to speed. Their feat of dodging lightning is a case of aim dodging and they don't have anything nearly comparable, and I think their closest feat is dodging soundwaves from DJ Doroko, which I think is transonic.

 

[Buttersamuri]

A mixture of fourth wall breaking like acknowledging deaths, and game mechanics. That's what I'm saying. The fact there's no acknowledgement of her existence, or the fact it happens by anyone at all, it doesn't seem the best to use. But I'm basically just repeating my point over and over. I myself dont agree with it. And if it is used. It should be limited at least since it's limited to both someone else, and the checkpoints.

It would have combat usage sort of yes. But I feel it should be stated how close she actually is to one and the girl who does it Much like monokuma has resurrection of sorts. But unless your near the school, or shouldn't be used

If you can link the video for that. It's easily calcable.

 

[Jackythejack]

https://youtu.be/FgczvnHIfQ4

Fight starts at like 12:50 or so. There might be good dodging shit there.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Alrighty. I got two usable pics. Should only take a few minutes

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Amelia should remain genius. Extraordinary genius would require something far greater than what was stated.

Everything else looks fine.

 

[Jackythejack]

Mmkay-

obviously Gonna be big downgrade no matter what

 

[Buttersamuri]

done

took longer cause my service went bad on me

 

[Buttersamuri]

Also.

Shazam should be removed from her wins. Considering she is nearly in one shot territory with her calc. But the calc she has was done by fodder, who she easily lapses. It's a one shot,

 

[Jackythejack]

Mm. Unfortunate but around what I expected it to be speed wise

 

[Kiryu2012]

I agree with Chelshia's respawn ability.

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

A mixture of fourth wall breaking like acknowledging deaths, and game mechanics. That's what I'm saying. The fact there's no acknowledgement of her existence, or the fact it happens by anyone at all, it doesn't seem the best to use. But I'm basically just repeating my point over and over. I myself dont agree with it. And if it is used. It should be limited at least since it's limited to both someone else, and the checkpoints.

This seems like overcomplicating a relatively simple situation. Occam's Razor and all that. Do we think it's what you mentioned above or just a character resurrecting another. It requires way more speculation and disregarding of statements to say it's a mix of fourth wall breaking and game mechanics than to just say it's a character being resurrected by another, like the scans state. The fact is that it is acknowledged in game, just not by everyone, it is explained in game to a sufficient degree to make it canon.

 

[Jackythejack]

I believe we have enough approvals. Ovens told me so. I'll add this

 

[Buttersamuri]

Shazam should most certainly be removed now. As well as the rest of her wins and losses should likely be looked over and removed or redone

 

[Jackythejack]

I mean some of them should be fine. A lot of them wouldn't really go for a Kill right away I feel, especially the MHA characters and Marge (unless Marge is a bloodthirsty monster)

 

[Buttersamuri]

Considering how many buffs and changes she has gotten, a few needing rematches regardless, and notably differences and context to feats such as her skill. They still should get yeeted I would say.

 

[Jackythejack]

Eh, I think the MHA matches are fine (I doubt Deku or Eijirou would go for a kill, after all), others I'm not sure. AT-ST maybe

 

[Buttersamuri]

Yea I don't agree. A more than Double AP difference with new abilities, plus more context equals a rematch being necessary IMO.

 

[Jackythejack]

For some of them but I don't think all of them should immediately go. The Simpsons fights in particular seem like they could be left alone imo. Either way they stay on the profile until rematched

 

[Buttersamuri]

They should be removed in general. The updates on the profile would need it. A rematch can happen, and I do feel some are necessary since new information and reference on her powers and skill level. But regardless they shouldn't stay. She's what, 4 times stronger than before and now has an immortality.

 

[Jackythejack]

Can I deal with this later people are already gonna make matches with her