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Kai (Ninjago) vs Nya (Ninjago) [0-1-1]

Honestly I think the best shot Kai would have here is Staff of Elements absorption, as an Elemental Master Nya should be vulnerable to it rather potently. It's a hypothetical but you could argue that would shut down her hax, maybe even regen. If that doesn't work, I don't think Kai has a way to put the brakes on Nya reliably enough to win, plus she's generally a way better tactician than he is. I don't see a power absorb resistance in Nya's key though so I wouldn't be shocked if one argued the Staff absorb working on her, question would be who would lead with their win-cons first at that point, Nya is a physical damage sponge so Kai's usual AP go-tos won't cut it.
 
MKF4 said:
Honestly I think the best shot Kai would have here is Staff of Elements absorption, as an Elemental Master Nya should be vulnerable to it rather potently.
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Yes, but Aspheera needed a lot of time and effort to do that, and she was outside of sea and willing to give her power herself, so idk if that works. See here.
 
True, but whether Kai really can absorb her is questionable
Also, didn't Aspheera's staff break after attempting to absorb Nya's powers?

And lastly. Kai would mostly spam with Elements first minutes of the fight, and not simply power absorb.
 
TheOrangeGuy09 said:
And lastly. Kai would mostly spam with Elements first minutes of the fight, and not simply power absorb.
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This was my main thing with Nya being the better tactician. Kai has a habit of going in guns blazing with attacks, that's what he did when he had the Staff in canon. You could maybe argue Kai would be able to absorb, but he would almost certainly not lead with it, I'd imagine Nya would be first to use her win conditions. I don't think she's quite as smart as say, Zane or Wu, but she's definitely a step above her brother in that sort of thing.
 
Additionally, I forgot to point it out, but the fight taking place at Stiix is a huge deal for Nya. That place is basically a big heap of wood on top of the sea, which given Nya is pretty much fused to it, gives her control over basically the entire battlefield. Kai has a lot of powers with the Staff of Elements, even powers like speed and gravity, but nothing that can wholly dominate the field like Nya's command over the sea. In some locations this isn't too bad, but in Stiix? That's hilariously broken in her favor. Hypothetically, she could probably engulf the entire battlefield with great ease and Kai wouldn't have much to stop it, even if he could fly to escape it would still be a massive disadvantage. Kai can't rely too heavily on his main element because Stiix is wood and he's right on top of the sea, while Nya is at the perfect place to abuse her powers to their max. It's kinda crazy, really.
 
Honestly for the time being I think I'm going to vote Nya for the various reasons above, her win conditions just seem way easier and less hyper-specific, and the fight being at Stiix just tilts things massively for her. Maybe things could change or a new argument could come up, but right now I just don't see how Nya loses this.
 
MKF4 said:
Honestly for the time being I think I'm going to vote Nya for the various reasons above, her win conditions just seem way easier and less hyper-specific, and the fight being at Stiix just tilts things massively for her. Maybe things could change or a new argument could come up, but right now I just don't see how Nya loses this.
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Alright counted
 
TheOrangeGuy09 said:
Mind Manip & Sound Manip & Gravity Manip for offensive
Smoke Manip & Darkness Manip & Invisibility for defensive
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Neuro's mind hax is pretty limited, he's only been shown reading minds, causing some headaches, sending messages, inducing visions, that sort of thing. Kai can't really just mind-control Nya into losing and while reading her mind could help, that's more defensive and wouldn't save him from the current issues at hand, like the regen. Same issues for Sound and Gravity. They're good, but don't offer any ways to outright win, and are frankly rather limited in terms of use. They have no way to close out the fight and offer nothing against Nya's enormous battlefield control, I previously mentioned that even flight and gravity wouldn't enable Kai to just negate Nya's command over the terrain under Stiix, especially given we never really saw Gravis do anything impressive with his powers other than float and throw around some flowers and branches.

Smoke Manip is pretty useless for defense, it only works in bursts, a weakness Kai himself exploited to beat Ash. That said, the Element of Shadow seems to work without that weakness, so I will grant you that intangibility off of Shade's Element of Shadow could enable Kai to last a while longer. I don't see how it helps him outright defeat Nya, but that would be a good way to escape a potential winning blow. Invisibility is nice but if Nya just AOEs everything under Stiix given her powers, it won't do much. Shadow is probably your best bet for defensive hax, you could maybe argue something off of that.
 
MKF4 said:
Neuro's mind hax is pretty limited, he's only been shown reading minds, causing some headaches, sending messages, inducing visions, that sort of thing. Kai can't really just mind-control Nya into losing and while reading her mind could help, that's more defensive and wouldn't save him from the current issues at hand, like the regen. Same issues for Sound and Gravity. They're good, but don't offer any ways to outright win, and are frankly rather limited in terms of use
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This is true, but they're still good for these to help himself. He also has lightning which Nya is apparently weak against in this form.
MKF4 said:
They have no way to close out the fight and offer nothing against Nya's enormous battlefield control, I previously mentioned that even flight and gravity wouldn't enable Kai to just negate Nya's command over the terrain under Stiix, especially given we never really saw Gravis do anything impressive with his powers other than float and throw around some flowers and branches.
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Gravity Element can do this.
MKF4 said:
Smoke Manip is pretty useless for defense, it only works in bursts, a weakness Kai himself exploited to beat Ash.
Click to expand...
No? I have no clue what you're talking about, this was neverstated or shown. Chen uses it outside of "lava territory".
MKF4 said:
That said, the Element of Shadow seems to work without that weakness, so I will grant you that intangibility off of Shade's Element of Shadow could enable Kai to last a while longer. I don't see how it helps him outright defeat Nya, but that would be a good way to escape a potential winning blow. Invisibility is nice but if Nya just AOEs everything under Stiix given her powers, it won't do much. Shadow is probably your best bet for defensive hax, you could maybe argue something off of that.
Click to expand...
I'm more thinking of an incon, Kai can't fullfil any condition of SBA win but he will certainly dominate the fight via hax
 
TheOrangeGuy09 said:
This is true, but they're still good for these to help himself. He also has lightning which Nya is apparently weak against in this form.
Click to expand...
I do agree Mind is good as a defensive tool, I was mainly just confused why you listed it as offensive. It definitely has use here, so I agree with that. Lightning is also a good option for offensive strikes.
TheOrangeGuy09 said:
Gravity Element can do this.
Click to expand...
Valid, but Lloyd himself isn't really on the scale as what Nya's size and scale would be as the sea. Obviously you could argue he might be more powerful here as the Green Ninja (though I would strongly doubt Season 4 Lloyd > later series ninjas, especially Wojira Fused, but that's neither here nor there), moreso just we've never seen Gravity manipulate or toss around something so large or broad.
TheOrangeGuy09 said:
No? I have no clue what you're talking about, this was neverstated or shown. Chen uses it outside of "lava territory".
Click to expand...
It's mainly just used to poof about and reappear, you could maybe argue Ash was just an idiot fighting Kai (which to be fair has nothing disproving that), but it certainly does not seem to be on the same level as what Shade is packing. Doesn't really change anything though as Shadow is pretty much the same concept with intangibility, conveniently for this debate.
TheOrangeGuy09 said:
I'm more thinking of an incon, Kai can't fullfil any condition of SBA win but he will certainly dominate the fight via hax
Click to expand...
Generally, I think at that point you have to discuss if Kai would come up with the plan of Shadow spamming long enough to pull off his limited game-winning hax before Nya nails him slacking. Could be for a worthwhile conversation, so I'm willing to hear you out.
 
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