Kaguya and Hagromo downgrade according to AP revision

[TheMightyRegulator]

Recent informatio has been provided showing that Hagoromo and Hamura created the Moon together, not Hagoromo alone.

The value gained by this calc when split between the two, results in ~500 Exatons.

Hence Prime Hagoromo should be downgraded to Small planet level instead of at least small planet level, a level that is greater by a factor of fifty, and is doubly incorrect as we are aware of his lower levels of power.

Further, keys should be made to distinguish between Prime (who created the Moon with Hamura to whom the 500 exatons apply) and Jinchuriki Hagoromo (who can supposedly do so himself awarding him the entirety of the calc value).

Similarly, the + in Kaguya's AP should be removed as it is reserved for the higher ends of a particular tier which Kaguya isn't as she is comparable to the sage in power. This is disagreeable as the sage is in the lower levels of this tier.

Hence, she should be downgraded to Small planet as well, as overpowering someone in the lower levels of small planet is not worth that of the "at least rating" either.

So, what do you think everyone?

Please note: End of series Sage and Jinchuriki Sage are referring to the same individual.

 

[LordAizenSama]

I agree with the OP.

@Shanks that is retconned.

 

[Shanks_of_the_red_haired_pirates]

Nevermind I support this although prime hagoromo should have his own tag and ratings...Dying Hagoromo and chakra Hagoromo are the same since it's just his chakra...I support this though but not the Kaguya part since she is stronger than six paths Hagoromo.

 

[LordAizenSama]

being stronger than someone does not automatically give you the "+" symbol, this usually requires calcs to prove it, and means you're in the higher section of the tier (which the feat this involves is barely even Small planet level) nor does being stronger automatically give you the "at least" term, for the same reasons

for example, Super perfect cell and vegito are both just 4-B, yet vegito would swat Super perfect cell with a flick of a finger. granted it's a higher tiering, but it's the same premise here.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Nah this won't downgrade the old man since he can replicate it alone as shown in his death bed

As LordAizensama stated, this was retconned durung the final arc of Naruto.

or Narutos final arc cuz of Juubi left over power

I already addressed this.

although prime was never that strong and 500 exatons is still small planet

Currently the sage is At least small planet, which is 50 times higher. That's a downgrade.

Kaguya was > six paths Hagoromo who is at least it though

I've already addressed this.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

i agree with the clc but lets see what happens now

 

[Shanks_of_the_red_haired_pirates]

I know that Hagoromo and hamura performed the feat together that's not the point...

Hamura was on the moon while he was young as shown in the last

The one to have sealed Juubi inside the moon in his death bed is Hagoromo himself

This won't downgrade Hagoromo but he does need separate tags however

 

[KamiYasha]

Actually no, the current history is like this.

Hagoromo and Hamura fought kaguya. sealing her as the Ten Tails

After that they sealing the Ten Tails inside of Hagoromo.

Many Years later, Hagoromo divided the Ten Tails in 9 beast and the Ten Tails Husk.

In his deathbed, he alone create the Moon along side the Ten Tails Husk, after that Hamura went to the moon to to protect the Husk.

There are some inconsistencies like: Hagoromo and Hamura sealing the Ten Tails (creating the moon) wayyyyy before the creation of the 9 Beast which is kinda dumb.

 

[RavenSupreme]

i support this. the "at least" and "+" to be removed

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Actually no, the current history is like this.

Hagoromo and Hamura fought kaguya. sealing her as the Ten Tails

After that they sealing the Ten Tails inside of Hagoromo.

Many Years later, Hagoromo divided the Ten Tails in 9 beast and the Ten Tails Husk.

In his deathbed, he alone create the Moon along side the Ten Tails Husk, after that Hamura went to the moon to to protect the Husk.

There are some inconsistencies like: Hagoromo and Hamura sealing the Ten Tails (creating the moon) wayyyyy before the creation of the 9 Beast which is kinda dumb.

This is canon though. In the sequel The Last it was revealed that, when sealing the Juubi, the Moon was already there.

 

[KamiYasha]

I know, that's why there are a few inconsistencies.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Can it be deemed an inconsistency though? We know that Zetsu manipulated history to his liking, Kaguya had a flashback to when her sons sealed her looking not unlike the chibaku tensei is going underway triggered by Sasuke and Naruto's sealing, her being sealed in the moon by her sons is confirmed in the databook and finally no modern media has depicted the sage creating the moon on his deathbed.

 

[Shanks_of_the_red_haired_pirates]

Hagoromo was incapacitated by the extraction of the tailed beasts iirc and the ten tails husk gedo mazo kept him alive so it was present..

 

[MrAsthmatic]

Actually no, the current history is like this.
Hagoromo and Hamura fought kaguya. sealing her as the Ten Tails

After that they sealing the Ten Tails inside of Hagoromo.

Many Years later, Hagoromo divided the Ten Tails in 9 beast and the Ten Tails Husk.

In his deathbed, he alone create the Moon along side the Ten Tails Husk, after that Hamura went to the moon to to protect the Husk.

There are some inconsistencies like: Hagoromo and Hamura sealing the Ten Tails (creating the moon) wayyyyy before the creation of the 9 Beast which is kinda dumb.

That history was told by Obito, who got it from Madara, who got it from the stone tablet, which Black Zetsu altered.

The truth is:


1. Hagoromo and his brother fought Kaguya as the ten tailed beast.

2. Hagoromo and his brother used Sage Chibaku Tensei to seal Kaguya's body(gezo thing), which eventurally becomes the moon. The chakra of the ten tails were sealed within Hagoromo.

3. Down the road he split that chakra into 9 seperate chakras, becoming the 9 tailed beasts we all know about. Near his death he let those 9 tailed beast roam free.

 

[MrAsthmatic]

But should that means that Naruto/Sasuke with their six paths power should be on the same level as Hagoromo though? That seems wrong to me. Especally since feat implies it was done before Hagoromo actually became the jinjurruki, which must have come with some power increase.

 

[AllanSaiyan]

I agree to this.

 

[KamiYasha]

As far as i remember the Stone Tablet (altered by Black Zetsu) only says the metod to make the Infinite Tsukuyomi.

Even the Narutopedia has the same "Historyline" as I said before.

 

[KamiYasha]

Blame Kishimoto for make his own history so incoherent

 

[Shanks_of_the_red_haired_pirates]

Blame Kishimoto for make his own history so incoherent

Yup the final arc is ridiculous But still - http://www.**********.com/naruto/656/10

http://www.**********.com/naruto/656/11

Hagoromo had the gedo mazo

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

I agree with this

 

[KamiYasha]

Yup the final arc is ridiculous But still - http://www.**********.com/naruto/656/10

http://www.**********.com/naruto/656/11

Hagoromo had the gedo mazo

Another plot hole, the gedo mazo was sended to the moon.

I'm afraid that we may need to "rock paper and scissors" which one are we gonna use.

 

[MrAsthmatic]

Blame Kishimoto for make his own history so incoherent

Yup the final arc is ridiculous
But still - http://www.**********.com/naruto/656/10

http://www.**********.com/naruto/656/11

Hagoromo had the gedo mazo

In order for your last statement to be true, OP's claims have to be false.

 

[Shanks_of_the_red_haired_pirates]

Kishi and his retcons...

Well whatever at this point Hagoromo could still replicate it in his ghostly form which did not have Juubi but just left over chakra from it like Obito

 

[Shanks_of_the_red_haired_pirates]

@MrAsthmatic Kyuubi was actually present so I don't see that being false.Not that it matters.

 

[MrAsthmatic]

@MrAsthmatic
Kyuubi was actually present so I don't see that being false.Not that it matters.

I read it over an over and it seemed to imply that the reason why Obito was able to survive the extraction is because he had the life force of the Statue still within him. Hagoromo did not when he decided to set the 9 tailed beasts inside him that he created free, which led to him being weakened, which eventually led to his death.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

"The twins, assuming that the Juubi was a transformed Shinju attacking them in order to reclaim the chakra that was taken from it, faced off against it. And after a fierce battle, the activated Rikudou Chibaku Tensei.They turned it into the moon and sealed it away.Caption next to Hamura on the last page: The Gedou Mazou, the remaining shell of the Juubi, was sealed in the moon. Hamura took command of the clan to watch over the Mazou." Databook 4

 

[MrAsthmatic]

So where does this leaves Hagoromo? Even though he had help, this feat was performed before he became a jinjurruki.

 

[Shanks_of_the_red_haired_pirates]

Highlight the thread

 

[RavenSupreme]

So where does this leaves Hagoromo? Even though he had help, this feat was performed before he became a jinjurruki.

according to the calc and result he sticks with small planet level however there is no more "at least" and kaguyas "+" after her tier will be removed as well

the next question is how to scale this, but thats topic for another tier

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

Why would this downgrade him when he could replicate the feat with leftover juubi jin chakra as mentioned above?

 

[UncleSpaceman]

@TheMightyRegulator

Naruto & Sasuke, before equaling Hagoromo, each with half of Hagoromo's power created a new moon. Which would mean half of Hagoromo's power is 540 exatons, so his full power is 1.08 zettatons.

 

[Zerzavyx98]

1 ) Kaguya being planet level comes from the expansive truth seeking ball

2) Why would prime Hagoromo be weaker than death bed Hagoromo? I'm also agreeing with Chill's question

 

[KyofuSama93]

Why would this downgrade him when he could replicate the feat with leftover juubi jin chakra as mentioned above?

Basically this.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

@TheMightyRegulator

Naruto & Sasuke, before equaling Hagoromo, each with half of Hagoromo's power created a new moon. Which would mean half of Hagoromo's power is 540 exatons, so his full power is 1.08 zettatons.

I have already addressed this. Please remain relevant to the topic at hand.

@others, Jinchuriki Hagoromo has the power to create a moon, Prime Hagoromo needed his brother to perform the same feat.

 

[KyofuSama93]

@TheMightyRegulator

Naruto & Sasuke, before equaling Hagoromo, each with half of Hagoromo's power created a new moon. Which would mean half of Hagoromo's power is 540 exatons, so his full power is 1.08 zettatons.

I have already addressed this. Please remain relevant to the topic at hand.

@others, Jinchuriki Hagoromo has the power to create a moon, Prime Hagoromo needed his brother to perform the same feat.

You should remember that Hagoromo said that he never was stronger than his mother.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

...

 

[DarthUchiha91]

His brother should be scaled down to just small planet level as well.

 

[Saladina]

@TheMightyRegulator

Naruto & Sasuke, before equaling Hagoromo, each with half of Hagoromo's power created a new moon. Which would mean half of Hagoromo's power is 540 exatons, so his full power is 1.08 zettatons.

I have already addressed this. Please remain relevant to the topic at hand.

@others, Jinchuriki Hagoromo has the power to create a moon, Prime Hagoromo needed his brother to perform the same feat.

His brother needed him to seal his mother. Nothing else nothing more.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Hence making the output less as the feat was split between two people.

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

Thats not the point i know Juubi jin hagoromo can perform it alone obviously.

But eos naruto hagoromo could do it also and he didnt have juubi just leftover chakra like obito had and he could still do it.