I think Truth should be Omnipotent or have his tier Unknown.

[Tiz_Arrior_from_the_shin_megami_tensei_Series]

The reason why he would be is because:

The truth always manifests itself in the shape of the person seeing it. It's something deep within their own consciousness, ."It" only exists metaphisycally within that moment where you're meeting it. It's a totally different thing whenever someone different sees it. Because each person has his own individual beliefs of what truth is.

In a late interview, Author Arakawa said that the Truth is a somewhat hollow version of oneself (as an "internal god" or "conscience")" Here's a quote from a similar topic elsewhere where people were wondering if someone could "beat" the truth

The Truth isn't a separate being itself, its a part of you and a part of the universe as a whole. It can't really fight or be fought, because it only exists in the same way gravity or electro-magnetism does, and as part of you, the person confronting it.

For an example, so it if TOAA sees him, he'll be basically him like a mirror or reflection and what he imagine Truth is, but at the same time a collective and is mant other things, additionally since he is techinally their consciousness or is inside you he knows everything you know and your exiperinces/memories and everything else. So basically he'll omniscience no matter who he meets

Additionally, he's Omnipresent however that's isn't important this is "Is everything that exists, including every single person, every celestial body, the entire universe and concepts" since he's every concept, he is Omnipotent, since Omnipotence is a concept he's Omnipotent.

 

[Promestein]

Yeah, no. Truth is a metaphysical being definitely but not Tier 1 or 0, not nearly enough anything backing that up.

 

[Tiz_Arrior_from_the_shin_megami_tensei_Series]

Lmao, sorry for the white highlights

 

[Tiz_Arrior_from_the_shin_megami_tensei_Series]

However, it's like a pardox, Omnipotence is a concept and Truth is every concepts including Omnipotence however you say he's metaphysical. And I can't really back him up since he's really vague.

 

[Promestein]

That's not really how it works. Embodying concepts on a universal scale is different from embodying all concepts on the scale required to be Tier 0. Otherwise, a bunch of characters would be Tier 0.

And that's the thing.

 

[Tiz_Arrior_from_the_shin_megami_tensei_Series]

I understand where you're coming from, but Truth is kinda the only character where it's actually states it's all concepts and where's the creator actually agrees, unfortunately truth isn't a being but is more like a concept or a entity non-comprehendable

 

[Tiz_Arrior_from_the_shin_megami_tensei_Series]

At the least "Truth" shouldn't be a low tier 2C character

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Why not? Has the original FMA ever been shown to encompass more than a single universe (not the 2003 one, that's non-canon)? Has it ever been shown to have infinite higher dimensions? Ever been shown to have beings who transecend those infinite dimensions?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Tier 0 is not simply the tier given to the being/force in the verse who is never affected by any other and curbstomps them all. In order to qualify for Tier 0, a being needs to be shown to be completely transcendent to beings who are completely transcend infinitely dimensioned/layered worlds, while also having never being inconvenienced or restricted in any way.

Additionally, Truth has never been shown to encompass more that the concepts on a universal scale, and even that is just from author statements.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Not to mention Truth got beaten/outsmarted by Ed in the end of the series and even blatently admitted it. That right there is one of the many reasons why Truth isnt and will never be rated this high.

 

[Tiz_Arrior_from_the_shin_megami_tensei_Series]

Okay I can somewhat understand why he's isn't tier 0. But here's the thing, he is vague in the show and the show isn't about the universes and other powerful concepts, so we shouldn't be able to judge "Truth" to began with since we don't know if he could or not so we shouldn't say what his limitations , so his tier should be unknown. And a another thing is, the people whould did his profile we not even sure what he could do or not so they added some abilities even though he wasn't shown to be able to do them.

 

[Tiz_Arrior_from_the_shin_megami_tensei_Series]

Striking Strength: Universal+

Durability: Universe level

How do we know this?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

They probably guessed, based on his AP. A character's dura is almost always equal or higher to their AP

It does not matter what Truth might be able to do. Saying that we don't know if he has any limits because none were given is the text book example of a no limits fallacy.

What matters is what he has been shown to do. And what he has shown / WoG been stated to do, is be some kind of universal abstract force.

He has not been shown to incorporate and transcend infintie higher dimensions, so we cannot and will not assume he can.

 

[Tiz_Arrior_from_the_shin_megami_tensei_Series]

So we can't assume he transcend infinte higher dimensions even if there's nothing to contradict that he could since there isn't enough information.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Essentially.

Nothing (directly) contradicts it sure (@ProfessorKukiki, an omnipotent doesn't need to be omniscient - they just can't be unable to become omniscient the moment they want to), but there is also nothing supporting it, and the jump from Low 2-C to 0 requires a hell of a lot more proof than an author statement

 

[Tiz_Arrior_from_the_shin_megami_tensei_Series]

But even with that there isn't a possible way that most people could defeat "Truth" on this website since he isn't even tangible or is his own seprate being, in FMA he is treated as above everything like a actual god, since "Truth" created everything and everything is just an extension of "Truth" he is exactly like TOAA, but the difference is the fact TOAA created the marvel universe and is stated to be above everyone in marvel by the author without even showing any feats similar to "Truth" even though he is above and created FMA verse. And the realm that "Truth appears in can be assumed to be beyond time and diminsional space, since his realm is more like a concept.

 

[Tiz_Arrior_from_the_shin_megami_tensei_Series]

However, I take back my claim that he should be tier 0 but have his tier to be unknown instead.

 

[Beyond21]

Lmao truth aint no tier 0. If a verse is full of 3 dimensional beings even a 4 dimensional being would look absolutely omnipotent and godly compared to everyone else. You cant just assume a realm to be beyond time and space because its a "concept". Tf does that even mean?

 

[Beyond21]

Trust me on this, this upgrade will NEVER go through. Not in a billion years. So it would be best to drop it, otherwise your just wasting everyones time

 

[Tiz_Arrior_from_the_shin_megami_tensei_Series]

I meant his realm is the embodiment of "The law of equivalent exchange."

 

[Beyond21]

Being an embodiment of a concept isnt 1-A and definitely not 0.

 

[Tiz_Arrior_from_the_shin_megami_tensei_Series]

Basically, a being or an object which is outside and beyond all concepts of time and space. This is something completely formless, abstract, metaphysical and transcendental. The usual scale does not make sense against a beyond dimensional object. Such beings can not be affected by destruction within the dimensions of time and space, or physical matter and energy. This "space" in which there is no dimension can be the background for any dimensional space. Within such a beyond dimensional "space", a dimensional structure with any number of dimensions can be placed, because there are no restrictions regarding dimensions.

This is tooken directly from tier 1A, and early on in this discussion we have already established that's he is metaphysical, so he's 1A

 

[Tiz_Arrior_from_the_shin_megami_tensei_Series]

"Truth" is also non-corpreal if that means any thing and the fact that mosst of them are 2A.

 

[Beyond21]

Even tier 4 characters can be non corporeal. It means nothing

 

[Beyond21]

The term metaphysical was used to help describe the meaning of tier 1-A in depth and a lot of detail. He isnt 1-A just because a couple guys on this wiki says hes "metaphysical". upgrading a character to 1-A isnt that easy

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

He is not outside all concepts of time and space though. He's also not above dimensions. The cosmic mind is formless, abstract, metaphysical and trascendental, and its only 2-A. The Law of Cycles is formless, abstract, metaphysical and transcendental, and its only 2-A. The Deadlights are formless, abstract, metaphysical and transcendental, and they are only low 2-C

Truth is not going to be upgraded to 1-A. There is no evidence for it whatsoever, and it is a massive leap in power that requires hard, solid, undeniable evidence. There is no such evidence and I'm going to channel my inner Antvasima and appreciate it if you permanently drop the subject.

 

[Tiz_Arrior_from_the_shin_megami_tensei_Series]

But the adminstor said he was. And I'll drop it.

 

[Beyond21]

I thought only antvasima was allowed to say that. I mean, that's sorta his trademark.