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Homestuck Revisions

TheLuffyPlayer

TheLuffyPlayer

577
158
Let's get right to the point, cause i really want this to happen

John's Breath Powers
Yeah, currently base John with breath powers is considered "Unknown", but i think he should be put in 7-C, cause fire at planetary scale is this strong (I know i should post this on Calc Evaluations Thread but i posted here cause my main objective was to use it to get 7-C Homestuck =P)

Land of 2-A's and Immeasurables
Yeah, the most massive revision in this thread:

Bec Noir, God-Tier Jade and anyone who scales to them should be upgraded to 2-A and have Immeasurable speed

First, some proofs they are 2-A:

  • God-Tier Jade inherited the powers of Becquerel, who's main power source comes form that of The Green Sun is formed from the aftermath of Two Genesis Frogs collapsing into one singularity of mass. That's not only a 2-A feat, it's an above baseline 2-A feat.
  • God-Tier Jade also has an absolute command over Space and Matter within The Genesis Frog.
Now for Immeasurable speed:

  • We current rate Jack Noir as MFTL+ cause he can inter-dimensional travel, but isn't this supposed to be Immeasurable? Cause universes are bound by different timelines so the space between them doesn't have time nor space.
  • Also, if the Red Miles destroyed the entire Genesis Frog and is 2-A, didn't it also destroy the space-time continuum within it? So if it expanded near instantly trough both time and space it's also a Immeasurable feat
  • And finally, Jade's body exists beyond the linear flow of time
So that's it...
 
Traveling between universes is nowhere near an Immeasurable feat. I don't know about the rest though.
 
Why is the genesis frog 2-A? Having total control over space-time is only Low 2-C. Definitely a no to the Immeasurable speed. We are too lenient with that as is imo, and this doesn't meet the existing standards.
 
I always had my issues with the 2-A upgrade.

Rose states that the Green Sun is nearly twice the mass of our universe (and she said universe, not Genesis Frog. There is a difference). This is later shown in Cascade where The Tumor shows the two universes (Again, not the Genesis Frogs, just the universes inside them).
Even if you think that the Green Sun has the mass of two Genesis Frogs, you can't directly scale the First Guardians from it, otherwise Grimdark Rose would have been 2-A long ago since her power comes from the Horrorterrors, Lord Jack would be 1-C since his power comes from Caliborn's soul and Dirk's Brobot would be somewhere in Tier 7 since he uses nuclear energy.

Calliope cleary says in that conversation that the correlation between the passage of time in the furthest ring and any given physical location is tenuous, so is not a special property from Jade.

Now I'm gonna quote myself:

God, I hate writing these text walls.
 
Rodri "Dante" said:
I always had my issues with the 2-A upgrade.
Rose states that the Green Sun is nearly twice the mass of our universe (and she said universe, not Genesis Frog. There is a difference). This is later shown in Cascade where The Tumor shows the two universes (Again, not the Genesis Frogs, just the universes inside them).
Even if you think that the Green Sun has the mass of two Genesis Frogs, you can't directly scale the First Guardians from it, otherwise Grimdark Rose would have been 2-A long ago since her power comes from the Horrorterrors, Lord Jack would be 1-C since his power comes from Caliborn's soul and Dirk's Brobot would be somewhere in Tier 7 since he uses nuclear energy.

Calliope cleary says in that conversation that the correlation between the passage of time in the furthest ring and any given physical location is tenuous, so is not a special property from Jade.

Now I'm gonna quote myself:

God, I hate writing these text walls.
Click to expand...

God-Tier Jade still has an absolute command over Space and Matter within The Genesis Frog.
 
Source? I just remember her saying that she couldn't teleport things outside of a universe/session.
 
Rodri "Dante" said:
Source? I just remember her saying that she couldn't teleport things outside of a universe/session.
Click to expand...
Well, it's been a while since i've read the webcomic, so i don't have the source here

But i remember her saying something like this at some point
 
Well, homestuck.com has a search function, so if you can more or less rember her words finding the page shouldn't be so hard.
 
Well, it's kinda hard to agree/disagree without all the info.

...

How big is LOWAS again?
 
Genesis Frog are refered has universe.

Also, Bec move outside the Genesis Frog before use red miles, so he was in the Furhest Ring, he also was in the Ring vs PM like we can see in Caliborn [Enter].

And i'm pretty sure Bec's Red Miles isn't infinitely powerful than him, a past version of himself escape them easily.
 
Still, The Tumor only shows the universes inside them, not the frogs themselves.

Jack was actually in the troll's session until PM arrived (unless he took the victory plataform with him).
 
The Tumor is shown to be clearly be relied to the destruction of the Genesis Frog, not just the universes. And universe refer Genesis Frog.

Trolls' session when we saw a slayed Horrorterrors with them? Just no.
 
...
...
WHEN?

Trolls' session when we saw a slayed Horrorterrors with them? Just no.

I was talking about this moment.
 
The animation is explicit at the death of Snowman and Red Miles' who makes a first plan of Genesis Frog


I was talking about Caliborn Enter.
 
YuriAkuto said:
The animation is explicit at the death of Snowman and Red Miles' who makes a first plan of Genesis Frog
Click to expand...
Okay,I'm rewatching Cascade:

  • The red tube shows a bunch of galaxies, zooms while showing the Red Miles, which reach Earth.
  • The blue tube shows a bunch of galaxies and zooms until reaching Alternia.
  • Slick kills Snowman, which makes many of those galaxies explode.
I was talking about Caliborn Enter.

Also, Bec move outside the Genesis Frog before use red miles, so he was in the Furhest Ring, he also was in the Ring vs PM like we can see in Caliborn [Enter].
 
Bec wasn't in trolls' session at this moment, the "other Bec who escape the miles" was in.
 
At one point while in the dreambubbles, Karkat manages to recreate his home town from memories. He should be Town level in the dream bubbles.
 
JADE: and the green sun presides over our universe
JADE: many universes actually! and the sessions that created them, as well as the sessions created within them
JADE: including the trolls universe and their sessio
JADE: think of it like a giant solar system, but instead of planets revolving around the sun, there are many universes

Okay forget it, destroying the green sun is cleary a 2-A feat, or at least 2-B, likely 2-A.

But I still don't think we should scale the first guardians directly from it.
 
At least scale Calliope and Caliborn.

But I think First Guardian should be scale, specially Doc Scratch
 
Okay, here is my main problem with scaling the First Guardians directly from the Green Sun:

JADE: so, bec was able to teleport anywhere in the universe he wanted in an instant, much faster than light
JADE: jack was able to do this too, within our session, and then when i inherited those powers from jadesprite, so could i
JADE: but we could only teleport locally
JADE: which means, bec could jump to anywhere in our universe, but not to another universe, or into a sessio
JADE: and jack could jump to anywhere in our session, but not outside it
JADE: we cant even jump to the green sun itself, even though we sort of serve as a gateway to it, and all its energy
JADE: and once we leave the suns domain, our travel is limited by the speed of light, like everyone else!
JADE: for example, the furthest ring is not in the suns domai
JADE: it is more like the suns medium, allowing it to exist
JADE: so if i wanted to fly out of our session and travel to the green sun, i would have to make my way there through the furthest ring at the speed of light or less
JADE: and wherever we are now is not in the suns domain either
JADE: so the same rules apply

JOHN: then maybe i'll just hop over real fast, and give karkat a fist bump, and give dave a hard time about his hella tight little hood, and then hop back?
JADE: im sure that would be hilarious
JADE: but
JADE: if you go i dont think i can bring you back
JADE: i cant bring anyone or anything to here from there!
JOHN: aw man, really??
JADE: as far as i know...
JADE: if theres a way i havent figured it out yet
JADE: i am still kind of new to this omnipotence thing after all :\
JOHN: that's stupid.
JOHN: what is with all these rules!
JADE: i dont know!
JADE: im sure the rules exist for a good reason though
JADE: maybe to somewhat limit the power and reach of omnipotent beings?
JADE: if there are no limits at all, it could be especially dangerous in the wrong hands
JADE: like what happened with jack!

Now, imagine that First Guardians are 2-A. Do you realize how meaningless all these rules would be?

Also bump or something.
 
Altmost as meaningless at Hussie saying that the verse caps at SoL.

I agree that we don't scale First Guardians to 2-A. And early game John with Breath Powers should still be way higher than 7-C, considering that he dispelled all the clouds of the planet.
 
Pretty sure the rules are disagree in the verse itself (Condesce's Ship MFTL+ for exemple).
 
Light is MFTL+

The point is that First Guardians have rules which restrict their power, the speed thing it's just Andrew messing with us.
 
Having rules doesn't mean can't be scale. Also, we can always scale this to Doc. durability.

And H.S. point: Pls upgrade Lord Jack because his stated stronger than PM/Bec, but slower.
 
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