God Immeasurable rating (Tokyo Babel)

[SweetDao]

So, while I was wandering to search a VN to play, I stumbled upon Tokyo Babel on VNDB. Being curious, I checked if there were profiles on the wiki and yes, there are some.

However, I also saw something peculiar. It's probably a fragment of the past, but the current justification for the Immeasurable of God is pretty weird:

Speed: Immeasurable (Exists on a separate plane of existence, has complete control over the past, present, future and space-time. God isn't bound by the shackles of time and its attacks also transcend dimensional boundaries. Exists in Heaven within which the concept of time doesn't exist)

I could go on and on but... Nothing really warrant immeasurable?

• Existing on a separate plane of existence is not enough.
• Controlling time isn't enough, alongside it having no scan associated. (Nevermind, found them after checking his haxs)
• God being unbound from time is also not enough for immeasurable.
• Transcending dimensional boundaries is range at best, I'd say.
• Being in a timeless place isn't immeasurable, either.

So unless someone comes along to send some other scans, I think it should go?

 

[KingNanaya]

I agree

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Agreed

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

• God being unbound from time is also not enough for immeasurable.

Actually, it can be with the right context. This is literally what immeasurable entails, your speed is so high the linear flow of time stops applying.

The statement kinda does point to the right direction (lol), connecting being unbound from time to the fact "past, present and future" are the "key" to something. If you can find the full scene, it could offer clarification on it.

 

[SweetDao]

Actually, it can be with the right context. This is literally what immeasurable entails, your speed is so high the linear flow of time stops applying.

I mean, transcending time or something similar, I could understand to some extent, but just being outside of time? Seems weird, but I'll take your words on it.

If you can find the full scene, it could offer clarification on it.

Aight, I'll try to find it.

 

[SweetDao]

I did find this, though.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I did find this, though.

Yep, this further points towards immeasurable. It's almost text book; God exists beyond linear causality, unbounded by time. What it does in the future affects the past directly.

What is needed now is this being related to speed (for example, if they fight God and its attack, by their very nature, are catching them in the past, present and future at once) and the rating can stay.

 

[SweetDao]

Yep, this further points towards immeasurable. It's almost text book; God exists beyond linear causality, unbounded by time. What it does in the future affects the past directly.

I mean, it's stated that he was sent to the past by humans... So why would it be immeasurable for him? Also, from which scan did you get the "affecting the future affect the past" part?

What is needed now is this being related to speed (for example, if they fight God and its attack, by their very nature, are catching them in the past, present and future at once) and the rating can stay.

I've checked every profile, and I've yet to see something like this. They probably do fight at the end of the VN, but I've not seen any attack attacking "past, present and future".

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I mean, it's stated that he was sent to the past by humans... So why would it be immeasurable for him? Also, from which scan did you get the "affecting the future affect the past" part?

Humans created him in the future (from the perspective of Creation), God's existence then created everything in the past. "A reversal of causality". Because he exists unbound by time, despite him being created after creation itself, he's the one that created everything. That's textbook immeasurable if you can connect this existence to his speed proper (as this dialogue is talking about his state of existence).

 

[CodeCCLL]

checked every profile

From Metatron's profile:

Gyazo

gyazo.com

This is probably immeasurable attack speed unless something else happens.

That's textbook immeasurable if you can connect this existence to his speed proper

At this point you need to tag @Celestial_Pegasus. Probably the only staff member or even person knowledgeable about the verse.

 

[SweetDao]

Because he exists unbound by time, despite him being created after creation itself, he's the one that created everything. That's textbook immeasurable if you can connect this existence to his speed proper (as this dialogue is talking about his state of existence).

Maybe I'm not understanding well, but why would it have to be something like speed and not just hax?

 

[SweetDao]

This is probably immeasurable attack speed unless something else happens.

I mean, I did see that statement, but it's honestly very vague. Immeasurable for this is clearly the high-end interpretation.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Maybe I'm not understanding well, but why would it have to be something like speed and not just hax?

Literally read the last sentence.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

From Metatron's profile:

Gyazo

gyazo.com

This is probably immeasurable attack speed unless something else happens.

That's flowery language to say "he was faster than me". They attacked almost at the same time, it's just the other was swifter.

@Celestial_Pegasus we need your help here

 

[SweetDao]

Literally read the last sentence.

Idk it's weird. I'll ask Celestial pegasus and Everything12 on their wall to come whenever they have some time.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Idk it's weird. I'll ask Celestial pegasus and Everything12 on their wall to come whenever they have some time.

"These things point toward a rating, if we can connect them to their speed"

Better?

 

[SweetDao]

"These things point toward a rating, if we can connect them to their speed"

No yeah yeah, I understood but still feels weird for me. In any case, thank you for your input.

In the meantime, I'll check a play through, perhaps I'll be able to find an answer directly from there.

 

[CodeCCLL]

very vague.

A time and space defying attack in the context of traveling the distance is not un-notable as to be worth mentioning.

That's flowery language to say "he was faster than me". They attacked almost at the same time, it's just the other was swifter.

If you don't have a scan for about context.

They attacked almost at the same time, it's just the other was swifter

You really need any reason to believe this is flowery language.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

If you don't have a scan for about context.

You really need any reason to believe this is flowery language.

?????

You gave the scan? I simply read it?

 

[SweetDao]

Yeah, I checked the scene myself, it's just something random, I'd say.

Here is the scene, if someone wish to see directly.

 

[CodeCCLL]

You gave the scan? I simply read it?

You can't dismiss that scan by claiming it's just flowery language for no other reason. I'm saying this.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

This verse is old, I made this around when I first joined the site, and I am juggling too much stuff to really pay attention to it.

It is on my list of things to reread, but I haven't gotten to it, and probably won't for a while.

In short, don't really care if God's speed is downgraded.

 

[SweetDao]

In short, don't really care if God's speed is downgraded.

Thank you for coming. Do you perhaps remember a certain feat of him warranting Immeasurable beside the one currently listed on his profile? Or, at least, do you perhaps remember when this scene happens, so I can check directly the context surrounding this statement?

 

[SweetDao]

Also, I forgot to mention this, but by checking the profiles, if God's speed is downgraded, it means that virtually everyone in the verse (since everyone is Immeasurable?) would be downgraded. Well, we'll just put "Unknown" for now, basically.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I haven't read this VN in years, I do still have a collection of scans, nothing there just glancing it really warrants anything, but these scans are from years ago when I wasn't as good at noticing stuff, and standards on this site were less strict.

As for that scan that's from the Lilith route, don't remember when exactly it happened and I am not searching through the entire route to find it.

Anyway surprised anyone is paying any attention to this verse, since it's obscure and old, the whole verse needs a revamp. But I am not doing that now, besides work + school, I got to finish off 11 eyes, AWLBA, and still got a ton of work to do on Re Zero, and that's ignoring Isekai Maou which I need to re-read, and I have made it a ways through my re-read of Maji Koi, so need to work on that too...

So yea, this series really isn't on my radar.

 

[SweetDao]

I haven't read this VN in years, I do still have a collection of scans, nothing there just glancing it really warrants anything, but these scans are from years ago when I wasn't as good at noticing stuff, and standards on this site were less strict.

As for that scan that's from the Lilith route, don't remember when exactly it happened and I am not searching through the entire route to find it.

Anyway surprised anyone is paying any attention to this verse, since it's obscure and old, the whole verse needs a revamp. But I am not doing that now, besides work + school, I got to finish off 11 eyes, AWLBA, and still got a ton of work to do on Re Zero, and that's ignoring Isekai Maou which I need to re-read, and I have made it a ways through my re-read of Maji Koi, so need to work on that too...

So yea, this series really isn't on my radar.

Nah, don't worry, I understand you're busy, I'll try to check the Lilith route myself in hope of finding it.

I was merely searching for a VN that caters to my stupidly demanding ass. Truly just a coincidence.

It's okay, thank you for giving your input nonetheless.

 

[Wankbreaker]

(Was asked by the OP)

Immeasurable seems fine to keep,actually

 

[SweetDao]

(Was asked by the OP)

Immeasurable seems fine to keep,actually

Could you clarify? Do you share the same view as Lephyr then? Because if so, it means the state of existence is fine, but there is currently no real feat that links his state of existence to his speed (or attack speed or whatever).

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Lefyr

 

[Wankbreaker]

Could you clarify? Do you share the same view as Lefyr then? Because if so, it means the state of existence is fine, but there is currently no real feat that links his state of existence to his speed (or attack speed or whatever).

Yea, I share the same view as Lephyr. If his state of existence is unbound by the space-time axis, it tracks that his movement should also be?

Though this is a VN I am not familiar with

 

[SweetDao]

I'm so sorry, my brain turned itself off while writing this

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Yea, I share the same view as Lephyr. If his state of existence is unbound by the space-time axis, it tracks that his movement should also be?

Though this is a VN I am not familiar with

We need proof that it applies to movement as well, otherwise it would be a form of acausality and likely BDE

 

[Wankbreaker]

We need proof that it applies to movement as well, otherwise it would be a form of acausality and likely BDE

Alright, that makes sense. Guess I’m neutral on this until proof is provided to support one way or the other

 

[SweetDao]

We need proof that it applies to movement as well, otherwise it would be a form of acausality and likely BDE

Actually, I found a scene where It did attack the protagonists, but it was after It was forcefully brought into their universe by one of them. In this state, it didn't transcend causality anymore.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Actually, I found a scene where It did attack the protagonists, but it was after It was forcefully brought into their universe by one of them. In this state, it didn't transcend causality anymore.

Based on that, I would give it a possibly, but no one else scales.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Eh, Tiamat-Lilth probably would still scale, since she is superior to God, in fact from memory before Tiamat fused with Lilith, she basically went up to heaven and killed God.

There was no nerfing shenanigans there, Tiamat is on God's level, as for how Tiamat-Lilith lost? I forgot.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Eh, Tiamat-Lilth probably would still scale, since she is superior to God, in fact from memory before Tiamat fused with Lilith, she basically went up to heaven and killed God.

There was no nerfing shenanigans there, Tiamat is on God's level, as for how Tiamat-Lilith lost? I forgot.

Ah, then that's fair.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

As for where to downgrade to, I am pretty sure some MHS+ or FTL feats exist from the lower tiers.

Give me a few hours and I can look through my scans to see if I have anything saved.

 

[SweetDao]

As for where to downgrade to, I am pretty sure some MHS+ or FTL feats exist from the lower tiers.

Give me a few hours and I can look through my scans to see if I have anything saved.

Sounds good but take your time, if you're busy we can totally wait.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I did indeed find lightspeed/FTL feats.

In terms of applying it, not too sure. Tokyo Babel has its share of inconsistencies, originally I didn't plan on making profiles for anyone besides the God tiers, because they are clearly the top of the top, yet Setsuna for example fights them with no apparent power ups.

Anyway things need to be looked at in depth which I don't have the time for right now. Remiel is lightspeed, but is meant to be one of the fastest gods, I don't remember how her fight with Setsuna went, but he defeats her from memory.

In the Lilith Route Setsuna fights Astaroth, and as you can see from the scan there, Astaroth can attack at near light-speed, Setsuna I am pretty sure dodges this attack, but as you can see he was having some issues here, so is Setsuna lightspeed, or near lightspeed?

Well the last feat also from the Lilith Route Setsuna jumps and catches Lilith before a nanosecond passes, which I think is an FTL feat? I don't remember when in the routes the feats happen, but towards the end Setsuna always faces the big bad (God, Metatron, Tiamat-Lilth), despite struggling with lower tiered enemies before, his raison d'etre does help as it can do stuff like make the impossible possible, destroy the concept of defeat etc but ehh....

In short, there may be a need for keys like Beginning of Game, Mid-Game, Late-Game, End-Game, and also for the different routes, but as I said don't have time for that right now.

For now, I guess scale God, Adam, Tiamat, Metatron and Setsuna to FTL, and the rest to SOL scaling to Remiel, albeit as I said this isn't exactly right but don't have time to fix it.