Fire Emblem Tellius Downgrade.

[Leon_Help4]

We have a bit of a inconsistent ruling on the FE Profiles for the Tellius characters, mostly only Ike, Ashera and Micaiah.

We are allowing Aether as a skill just as it is described in in-game mechanics (halve the opponent's HP then heal the damage you do), but this skill is not consistent in the verse. As it also gives Ike a 3x attack boost in Radiant Dawn, something that does not happen nor is ever stated to have changed in Path of Radiance nor Radiant Dawn nor Awakening (i know its a separate timeline, but still, the cutscenes just show Chrom using the spin move against Lucina, but it is not implied Chrom halved Lucina's durability nor healed from the encounter, also Lucina could block, something that FE characters cannot do in combat.)


Now, the downgrade.

Ashunera's flooding feat is envioremental destruction, no different that the multiple other weather manipulation feats done by characters such as Netflix Dracula or the Tempest in Fire Emblem Heroes.

Ashera scales to half of that power, yes, but in the RD final battle, she never uses flooding nor weather manipulation to fight the cast in any way, and there is no indication all attacks from the Goddess are equally as powerful, specially when Ashnuera used most of her power in flooding the planet.

If we are using game mechanics to some degree, then we should also consider that every character in RD can hurt Ashunera, but she just heals if her HP ever reached zero, which is consistent with Zelgius's blessed armor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWmby84XM2U

Ike needed Micaiah and Yune to give Ragnell the "power" to defeat Ashera, which is the only way to finish her up for good.

If anything, i would propose the next changes.


Ashera

Low 7-B , High 6-A via Envioremental Destruction (Roughly half as strong as Ashunera)

Ike & Micaiah

At least Low 7-B (Stronger than before/ Able to fight RD Ike) and Durability Negation while amped by Yune. (Can prevent Ashera from resurrecting.)

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

None of this is legit; Ashunera flooding the Continent via her own power; she is the literal Goddes of Chaos. It's definitely combat applicable. Also, Yune is perfectly capable of flooding the Continent on her own. And you left out the part that Ashera can destroy the entire world upon awakening and recreate the entire world in her own image. Honestly Ashera and Yune should scale to their feat individually because either one of them are actually capable of it.

Aether doing 3x the damage is just an attack. 3x damage =/= 3x AP, so there are no problems with this. And we do not use game mechanics as an excuse to downplay characters. Ike (Yune merged) is the only one canonically capable of killing Ashera and is thus the only one who scales from her. The feat is way more concrete than the Divine Weapons and is consistent with Ashunera creating the planet among other things.

And actually, Ashera and Yune, neither one of them are capable of killing each other and require help to do it. So their durability scales from their AP. And Ike merging with Yune is technically all of Yune + some of Ashera's power.

So a hard no to all of this. In fact, there's another thread here

 

[TheGatememer]

I'm pretty sure that it was stated somewhere that Ashera could destroy the planet, and recreate it if she wanted to.

 

[Leon_Help4]

Titles are not an argument. We have similar feats on this wiki being considered as envioremental damage. Ashunera should mot have this special "consideration" because of her ",Goddess" title.

"Destroying the world' statements and feats are unquantifiable, we do not have Tiki/Medeus/Grima at High 6-A/5-B for the same reason. If you have a feat of Ashunera thay backs up her being able to destroy the world by just awakening i suggest you post it so it can be calced.

You missed the point with aether. Its that the effect changes between games with no in-lore explanantion of the reason why and it should either be noted on the profile or removed. This is not downplay, its being consistent with other in-game mechanics that are not being considered (Ex. Dragon effectiveness for Falchion).

Hurting and Killing are reasonings for AP. Unless you are willing to downgrade anyone from any verse than can "keep up" or "hurt" a chracter from a higher tier. Ex. Pegasus Seiya hurt Hades, but did not kill him. The developers intentionally prohrammed Ashera to regen HP if it ever reached zero by anyone's attack but Ike's, so this is not a glitch nor anything of the sort. *everyone* can hurt Ashera, but only Ike can kill her for good.

Ive never mentioned the Elibe Holy Weapons in the thread, so that whole point is just invalid and entirely unrelated to the topic at hand.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Those are all false equivencies. And the difference is that Ashera/Ashunera outright oneshots the surface of the world, rather than it being a timeframe. So it's her casual AP.

Aether is different for various games, so each character uses descriptions and effects from their own games. Saint Seiya has nothing to do with this and it's not like game mechanics are a thing here. In fact, that sounds familiar for that to be randomly brought up.

Falchion has lore outside of game mechanics of it boosting the user, as does Ashera.

 

[Leon_Help4]

Its is not her casual ap, because well, it is not casual as explained in the lore and its should be considered to be envioremental damage as explained above. I am not saying the feat is not legit, because it is, but that based on how the feat is presented and done and the standards of the wiki, it should be noted as High 6-A via envioremental damage. I am actually fine with it being scaled to Ike and Micaiah in this way too. But the fact that there is no indication Ashera's other attacks are comparable to the flooding.

Aether is different in Path of Radiance and in Radiant Dawn with no explanation of the change. So it should be noted if Ike is using his PoR Aether or his RD Aether on vs threads or just removed entirely because its a game mechanic based skill since its based on stats. The saint seiya example was just an example. Any other "can hurt" or "keep up with" feats apply to this comparison as long they do not kill the one the character is fighting.

Indeed. But Aether and the Final Boss use elements that are cherry picked in the scaling to make then stronger than they should be based on the guidelines of the wiki on similr characters, again, like Falchion.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Ashunera literally flooded the world just by accident, and one of the conversations implied Yune could do very much the same thing if she had a similar level of sorrow. Also, attack potency control is a thing, we don't have to bust continents every time the attack to be Multi-Continent level. It's not like Goku busts the Universe every time he punches but he's still Universal.

It's just how the game works. But all the True Master Classes special abilities were intended to be more advanced than regular critical hits. Radiant Dawn also came out later, making Path of Radiance more the retcon until proven otherwise. So Radiant Dawn's version should have more priority.

We've always analyzed stuff like this case by case. But the example shown here is lacking. Different games also execute the stories differently. Unless you want to say Idenn can get easily killed by an Iron Axe wielded by Gonzales. I know what I'm talking about here when I say who and what scales to what. Ashera is unkillable outside of Ike merged with Yune and is this the only one who scales from Ashera. And Ashera could have oneshotted the world via Thousand Year Judgement had she been awakened through Chaos rather than through Gladyr of Release.