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Dragon Ball vs. Marvel/DC/Saint Seiya threads

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- EliminatorVenom asked me to post this outside of the wiki:

The problem here in the ban as I see it isn't the ban in itself, it is in the very principle of that. By banning the matches, you are formally punishing the good because of the bad, forbiding matches because immature people of both fandoms ruin said debates. Not only are you opening a blatant exception to something just because there are more immature people about it (Remember my example of banning a religion because of fanaticism from a significant/vocal minor deal of its followers), but as I stated before, it won't fix the problem. The problem at hand is immature people. Banning such matches won't avoid that. At most it will make such people match against other verses they like while doing their thing. Not only that, but it's entirely possible that the wiki gains a bit of a bad fame for doing so. Several people criticize the wiki as it is, of course, and I really doubt that we really should care, but it is still a point.

"They will spam DC VS DBZ/etc. matches"? So what? Saitama appears, from a popular anime, with plenty of background as a "one-punch man", matches are spammed. Reinhard Heydrich appears, incredibly haxxy, matches are spammed. To this day, Naruto, Fairy Tail and One Piece matches are one of the most reocurring precisely because they are mainstream. The ban is only limiting the possibilities while at first there will be a natural phenomenom of match-spamming due to several reasons. Y'know, the ban itself will help.

"Most, if not all, of these matches are stomps"? That's a bad argument, and you know it. Not only there is already a rule for it, but formally banning verse-vs-verse matches because they are stomp-ish? Not only is that founded in arbitrary opinion, but it establishes a violation to debating in general by, well, restricting debating. And debating is the very essence of VSdebating, not only in matches, but in content revisions, character indexing, everything.
 
He also asked me to post the following bit:

""It will increase the workload". That's a valid complaint, but to be honest, I can't see how much troubling it could be to skim over a thread, see the comments and closing it/analysing if it is close-worthy. That's a 2-3 minute work, more or less depending how fast one can read. I could even see a solution to this: Create a new thread about flamewar-reporting, much like the rule violation reporting thread, and perhaps even promote a few active members on the forums to moderator status, where they can close threads. But I think that's too much and potentially too much work to be done, so you may ignore that last bit.

Also, my full apologies if I sounded rude, I really don't mean to be so."
 
Even still, if anyone has the audacity to try to start an "anime vs. manga" war they are clearly not mature enough to use this wiki and do not need to be here.

VSBW is not Comicvine, OBD, or SpaceBattles where that happens frequently. Moreover, we are bashed for "wanking anime", so if we wank anime how does 4-C Flash hax-stomp 3-A Dyspo? Dyspo had a massive AP advantage and he still lost. Clearly, Dragonball is one of the weakest Tier 2 verses because it lacks hax (besides Hakai). That's just how it is. So no, we don't wank anime, proving those criticisms null and void. This "anime vs. manga" nonsense is no reason to ban matchups, rather ban the individuals that promote that toxic mentality.

I can accept that most of these matches are hax-stomps/ap-stomps. Therefore my final proposal is to keep them banned with the exceptio of true/fair matchups such as my Supergirl vs. Kefla match. If it's fair I do not see the point of closing it when it hasn't been reduced to a flame war even in the slightest. So if we do see a DC. vs. DB match that isn't a stomp, it should get a pass.
 
Hell, when I first joined, I thought we wanked anime (obviously, that disappeared nigh instantly), so Sera's not wrong.
 
Our latest DB vs DC threads, to my knowledge, have all been incredibly civil, the only problem is that they just aren't always the best matchups

Heck, I don't even think anyone got mad when DB was losing, or vice versa
 
Lift the ban. AP/Hax stomps are banned anyway. Causing flame wars is a serious offense. Don't pit that solely on DC/Marvel vs. Dragon Ball when Arceus, BB, Reinhard, Lavos, Chara, and Sans threads have been spammed before too, and people even complained about them, including staff. We did not ban those from being spammed.

If spamming stomp threads is such a problem, then the discussion mods will just have to do their thing. PaChi does a great job with that already, I never complained about closing multiple threads in rapid succession. If it needs to be done, it needs to be done.
 
Well, as I mentioned earlier, we could see how this works out, and ban these matchups again if necessary.
 
I have recieved permission to comment here.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1390908#2

First, this wiki is called VS Battles Wiki for a reason. That purpose is to be both an indexing of character states and profiles. The second purpose is to see who would win in a fight in one or more FICTIONAL pieces of media, meaning no one's lives are going to be affected over who is winning.

As a very function and purpose of the wiki, I personally believe the wiki must allow for all VS threads to be able to be created.

Of course, there can be still be closing for stomp matches, since there is nothing to "debate" to begin with.

Let's look at the most basic arguments against this, being that there will be much more frequent flame wars, and that it will be near impossible for the staff to handle.

I could put this argument away by saying it is the very job of the staff to handle these flame wars and this shouldn't even be an argument, but I will go even further. The staff have already proven to deal with these flame wars when it comes to other VS threads, and close VS threads when there is too much fire, so throwing Dragon Ball into the fire should not add much, regardless of how passionate the Dragon Ball community is over it.

The only other problem is the way we count who wins in a fight. We use a system of popularity and votes to determine the winner. It doesn't matter how many people say something wrong (assuming that thing was even wrong to begin with,) If it is wrong, it is wrong. That does not mean reject this system, since we can never find out in absolute who would win. Simply allow everyone to comment their thoughts (not flames) on who would win, and do not add extremely close matchups. (because votes are not everything)

A counter to this is that not allowing extremely close matchups to be added to character pages would be denying a basic function of the wiki. The only problem with this is that extremely close matchups have been refused to be added in the past. Just look at this.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1034293

To summerize. Flame wars are to be closed as with regular matches that are stomps, and Extremly close matchups should not be added to pages (due to the trigger response from people,) RATHER people should be allowed to continue these matchups as CIVIL conversations indefinitly (meaning always keep the thread open).
 
Shouldn't extremely close match-ups instead be deemed inconclusive since we have that as a possible verdict anyway?
 
MeleeniumRXJ said:
Shouldn't extremely close match-ups instead be deemed inconclusive since we have that as a possible verdict anyway?
Click to expand...
I apoligize for replying again, but I perfer my method simply because it allows people in the future to give in more input on a rather controvosial thread. Inconclusive just gives up entirely.
 
Yeah but like many characters that don't do things in character, most people don't know or care and thus it doesn't mean a thing to them.
 
@Melee

I overreacted on how bad it was, I've just seen how people would debate that fight but I shouldn't react like that. People are different then before, again I apologise.
 
Hey, I know I'm not a staff, but I want to say something. In Comic Vine, their situation is alot worse than what is going on in VS Battles Wiki.

2018-02-17


Dragon Ball characters are banned to fight anyone not originated from Manga/Anime universe. I don't care if Dragon Ball characters in VS Battles Wiki are banned to fight Saint Seiya characters, DC characters, and Marvel characters, but as long as they are allowed to battles characters outside of Anime/Manga universe, I'm okay. I wanted to do a Dragon Ball x Sonic crossover so badly.
 
@John there's nothing in the rules that says that dragon ball can't fight non anime characters. If that's the case, then a lot of matches that are submitted wouldn't even be there.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@John there's nothing in the rules that says that dragon ball can't fight non anime characters. If that's the case, then a lot of matches that are submitted wouldn't even be there.
Click to expand...
Characters from the Dragonball franchise (Dragonball, DBZ, Super, GT, and any other part of the franchise) may only fight against / alongside characters that originate in Anime / Manga. Anything else will be locked.

And to answer your second sentence.

Some of these rules haven't been around forever, so some threads that violate the rules might be around. If you find one... just leave it be. Don't bump any thread that violates the rules.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@John I mean in this wiki, there's no rules saying that.
Click to expand...
Oh, thank God. Anyways, do you mind showing me the links to the rules sections, please? I can't find it anywhere.
 
So should we close this thread, or keep it open in case the situation deteriorates? Although it might be better to start a new staff thread if that happens.
 
Okay.
 
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