• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Darth Marr vs Luke Skywalker (4/0/0)

DaReaperMan

Any/All
VS Battles
Image Helper
Messages
52,606
Reaction score
46,834
Luke Skywalker vs Darth Marr

This oughta be good...

Speed is not equalized, battle takes place in Augustgrad on Korhal (Starcraft)

Luke is in his Return of the Jedi key, and Marr is 5-B

Oh, and start 5 meters away.

FFYIOvDXsAkvc31.jpg:large
darth_marr_by_bojanajokic_d8h7qok-pre.jpg

Hero of the Rebellion: 0

Defender of the Sith Empire: 4

They overthrow Palpatine together instead: 0
 
Last edited:
Unironically could see Marr and Luke jumping Palpatine together.

Anyways, uhhh how do they stack up in speed compared to each other? I ask because Marr's blitzing feat is actually ******* nuts since it looked like instantaneous teleportation while he was mid-conversation with someone that was not only staring at him but also has future sight precog and she didn't even realize what happened for a solid second there at first.
 
I’m going with Marr.

Thanks to the difference in eras there isn’t a nice and tidy simple scaling chain to contrast them with, but if you want my over-complicated cross-era scaling chain you may look below (you have been warned):

Marr has been repeatedly contrasted to Post-Exile Satele Shan who in turn has superior showings against Vitiate’s telepathy than the likes of the Vanilla Hero of Tython who in turn is superior to Scourge who had already been relative to Meetra Surik 300 years ago who in turn was described by Kreia as her greatest student placing her above Pre-KOTOR Revan who in turn mastered the Star Map where even a fragment was blinding in its power to Ajunta Pall who was stated to be the most powerful of the Sith Exiles thus placing him above Karness Muur who in turn was to Post-ROTS Vader a ‘force unlike any he's ever witnessed’ who even believed him capable of supplanting Post-ROTS Sidious which at minimum places him outside of Vader’s frame of reference and thus above Knightfall Vader who has supremacy statements over ROTJ Vader, or by scaling chain was superior to Dooku (who feared Anakin tapping into his rage and implied he wouldn’t be able to defeat such a foe), who was described as a peer to TPM Sidious who previously perception blitzed TPM Maul who in turn could match ANH Vader in saber combat if not Force power, who in turn wasn’t much below ROTJ Vader who was relative to ROTJ Luke.

In summary:

Darth Marr ~ Post-Exile Satele Shan > Vanilla HOT > Nexus Amped Vanilla SWTOR Scourge > Nexus Amped Novel Scourge ~ Meetra Surik > Pre-KOTOR Revan > Ajunta Pall > Karness Muur > Knightfall Vader > Dooku ~ TPM Sidious >> TPM Maul ~< ANH Vader < ROTJ Vader ~ ROTJ Luke
 
Speaking of Revan and Meetra, their profiles need reworks at some point too. I loved KOTOR 1 & 2 and it hurts seeing them look like shit. In any case even if Marr and Luke were equal in power I'm pretty sure Marr just blitzes him since his speed showings are utterly bonkers.
 
It says his Return of the Jedi key.
Sorry, I didn't realize. Although I do think that it's a little too early to put RotJ Luke in any match-ups, because based on fighting Darth Vader who was able to take the full power of Palpatine's lightning for a full 10 seconds, he should actually be Solar System Level to even being 5-D!
 
Sorry, I didn't realize. Although I do think that it's a little too early to put RotJ Luke in any match-ups, because based on fighting Darth Vader who was able to take the full power of Palpatine's lightning for a full 10 seconds, he should actually be Solar System Level to even being 5-D!
No.
 
I'm sorry but is is implied that the Emperor was not holding back at all when torturing Luke or killing Vader, and the Return of the Jedi novelization, which is G canon, proves this!

The Emperor’s glee turned to a sullen rage. “So be it, Jedi. If you will not be turned, you will be destroyed.”

Palpatine raised his spidery arms toward Luke: blinding white bolts of energy coruscated from his fingers, shot across the room like sorcerous lightning, and tore through the boy’s insides, looking for ground. The young Jedi was at once confounded and in agony—he’d never heard of such a power, such a corruption of the Force, let alone experienced it.

But if it was Force-generated, it could be Force-repelled. Luke raised his arms to deflect the bolts. Initially, he was successful—the lightning rebounded from his touch, harmlessly into the walls. Soon, though, the shocks came with such speed and power, they coursed over and into him, and he could only shrink before them, convulsed with pain, his knees buckling, his powers at ebb.

Vader crawled, like a wounded animal, to his Emperor’s side.

On the Death Star, Luke was nearly unconscious beneath the continuing assault of the Emperor’s lightning. Tormented beyond reason, betaken of a weakness that drained his very essence, he hoped for nothing more than to submit to the nothingness toward which he was drifting.

The Emperor smiled down at the enfeebled young Jedi, as Vader struggled to his feet beside his master.

“Young fool!” Palpatine rasped at Luke. “Only now at the end, do you understand. Your puerile skills are no match for the power of the dark side. You have paid a price for your lack of vision. Now, young Skywalker, you will pay the price in full. You will die!”

He laughed maniacally; and although it would not have seemed possible to Luke, the outpouring of bolts from the Emperor’s fingers actually increased in intensity. The sound screamed through the room, the murderous brightness of the flashes was overwhelming.

Luke’s body slowed, wilted, finally crumpled under the hideous barrage. He stopped moving altogether. At last, he appeared totally lifeless. The Emperor hissed maliciously.

At that instant, Vader sprang up and grabbed the Emperor from behind, pinning Palpatine’s upper arms to his torso. Weaker than he’d ever been, Vader had lain still these last few minutes, focusing his every fiber of being on this one, concentrated act—the only action possible; his last, if he failed. Ignoring pain, ignoring his shame and his weaknesses, ignoring the bone-crushing noise in his head, he focused solely and sightlessly on his will—his will to defeat the evil embodied in the Emperor.

Palpatine struggled in the grip of Vader’s unfeeling embrace, his hands still shooting bolts of malign energy out in all directions. In his wild flailing, the lightning ripped across the room, tearing into Vader. The Dark Lord fell again, electric currents crackling down his helmet, over his cape, into his heart.

Vader stumbled with his load to the middle of the bridge over the black chasm leading to the power core. He held the wailing despot high over his head, and with a final spasm of strength, hurled him into the abyss.


The Dark Empire Endnotes also confirm the same thing, although I'm still trying find where exactly the quote comes from.

Also by throwing out George Luca's 80% power quote, you're daring to throw out the entire concept of G-canon altogether
 
Sorry, I didn't realize. Although I do think that it's a little too early to put RotJ Luke in any match-ups, because based on fighting Darth Vader who was able to take the full power of Palpatine's lightning for a full 10 seconds, he should actually be Solar System Level to even being 5-D!
Good thing Marr has a 4-B key as well.
 
I'm sorry but is is implied that the Emperor was not holding back at all when torturing Luke or killing Vader, and the Return of the Jedi novelization, which is G canon, proves this!

The Dark Empire Endnotes also confirm the same thing, although I'm still trying find where exactly the quote comes from.

Also by throwing out George Luca's 80% power quote, you're daring to throw out the entire concept of G-canon altogether
The movie novelizations are C-Canon, not G-Canon. G-Canon refers to the movies themselves and Lucas’ lore notes submitted to the Holocron alone. His random interview quotes aren’t canonical at all:

“No random statements by any creators are canononical in and of themselves. George has contradicted himself many times so nothing is "true" until it's told in officially storytelling.”

-Matt Martin
“The only relevant official continuities are the current versions of the films alone, and the combined current version of the films along with whatever else we've got in the Holocron. You're never going to know what George's view of the universe beyond the films at any given time because it is constantly evolving.”

-Leland Chee
“I tried documenting all the notes George provided to Licensing in the Holocron. Stuff changed all the time.
During production. After the theatrical release. To him it was all very malleable until he committed it to screen (though even that didn't stop changes from happening).”

-Leland Chee

Meanwhile nowhere does it even imply prior to Sidious going for the kill that he was going all out while torturing Luke, whom in your own quote was nearly instantly brought to the edge of wishing for death. As for Redeemed Vader, an amped Vader took fatal damage in under ten seconds from a fraction of Sidious’ power that was launched in all directions, only a small portion of which ricocheted and bent under him to strike Vader:

“Filled with love for his son, and hatred for the monster that was now killing him, Anakin Skywalker gained the strength to restore balance to the Force by destroying his Master.”

-The Official Star Wars Fact File 5

Vader scaling to ROTJ Sidious has been debunked so many times, that a ban on attempting this again has become the subject of the only rule for the verse on site.
 
FOUND IT!!

This quote only states Sidious brought the ‘fullness of his malevolence’ against Luke right when Vader betrays him (so only when he went for the kill, not during the prior torture session). And while Sidious is undoubtedly unleashing his full power when he is grabbed by Vader, only a fraction of his bolts reach him (seen in both the movie and described in the novelization), and despite being amped that was enough to kill him in seconds.

“Palpatine struggled in the grip of Vader’s unfeeling embrace, his hands still shooting bolts of malign energy out in all directions.”

-Return of the Jedi (Novelization)

Nope, they ARE G-canon, maybe read more about that here: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Canon
I have read that article before, and nowhere does it state the novelizations are G-Canon. The best you get is a Sue Rostoni quote about how the novelizations come second to the movies (which is outdated since the invention of T-Canon), but nothing more than that.
 
Also, Marr's 4-B key REALLY shouldn't go against any Star Wars 4-B worth their salt. I know Valkorion isn't some beta bottom ***** in scaling at that level, and that Marr literally had his back turned, but his ass still died in one hit.

Also, no, Vader doesn't scale to Sidious. Luke wanted to ******* die and Vader actually died from some minor contact with his force lightning. Also I love how we're trying to scale Luke to someone who stomped him with ease.
 
Last edited:
Speaking of Revan and Meetra, their profiles need reworks at some point too. I loved KOTOR 1 & 2 and it hurts seeing them look like shit. In any case even if Marr and Luke were equal in power I'm pretty sure Marr just blitzes him since his speed showings are utterly bonkers.
I'm working on Revan(Read: I'll finish him eventually) but I have basically zero interest in Meetra. I'll do Bastilla before I do Meetra and that's a big maybe.
 
I'm working on Revan(Read: I'll finish him eventually) but I have basically zero interest in Meetra. I'll do Bastilla before I do Meetra and that's a big maybe.
Is his Non-Canon Dark Side ending version gonna be part of it? I ask because that version gets the Star Forge as standard equipment at that point as well as Dark Side Bastilla since they fight together a lot after that point.
 
Is his Non-Canon Dark Side ending version gonna be part of it? I ask because that version gets the Star Forge as standard equipment at that point as well as Dark Side Bastilla since they fight together a lot after that point.
Why would I add an obviously not-canon key? Come on, be honest!
 
Darth Vader seems like fodder in Legends.
He's strong but keep in mind the comparison here is someone who stomps Darth Lachris. Y'know, one of eight main people in the Sacking of Coruscant? Darth Marr ain't some low-tier beta bottom *****.

He's as strong as a top-tier's going to get without just being flat God-tier.
 
He's strong but keep in mind the comparison here is someone who stomps Darth Lachris. Y'know, one of eight main people in the Sacking of Coruscant? Darth Marr ain't some low-tier beta bottom *****.

He's as strong as a top-tier's going to get without just being flat God-tier.
Reasons I prefer Disney ---> they never tire of wank Vader.
 
I have read that article before, and nowhere does it state the novelizations are G-Canon.
"When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves—and only the films. Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas' vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences. The novelizations are written concurrently with the film's production, so variations in detail do creep in from time to time. Nonetheless, they should be regarded as very accurate depictions of the fictional Star Wars movies." - Christopher Cerasi

It seems to be very much implied here that the novelizations are G-canon, especially since George Lucas himself was working closely with the authors

The best you get is a Sue Rostoni quote about how the novelizations come second to the movies (which is outdated since the invention of T-Canon)
The Novelizations are NOT below T-canon, nor does T-canon override them, this is simply because unlike being novels that take place in between films, THEY ARE THE FILMS!
 
"When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves—and only the films. Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas' vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences. The novelizations are written concurrently with the film's production, so variations in detail do creep in from time to time. Nonetheless, they should be regarded as very accurate depictions of the fictional Star Wars movies." - Christopher Cerasi

It seems to be very much implied here that the novelizations are G-canon, especially since George Lucas himself was working closely with the authors
It is literally implying the opposite. And Leland Chee has already explicitly refuted this line of thinking:

G-level canon has nothing to do with GL checking over anything. It's anything that can be taken from the films or internal notes from him which can come from discussions, early drafts, or comments on GL-approved text.”

-Leland Chee

The Novelizations are NOT below T-canon, nor does T-canon override them, this is simply because unlike being novels that take place in between films, THEY ARE THE FILMS!
No, they are not the films. Plenty of SW media covers the same content of the films, but that doesn’t magically make them G-Canon.
 
He still instantly wanted death and couldn't move at all. PLUS, Palpatine wasn't even trying to kill him!
Yeah, he was trying to kill Luke in the last 25 seconds before Vader grabbed him, and in the novelization Luke momentarily attempted to deflect the lightning with the Force but was overwhelmed
 
Yeah, he was trying to kill Luke in the last 25 seconds before Vader grabbed him, and in the novelization Luke momentarily attempted to deflect the lightning with the Force but was overwhelmed
This certainly isn't contradicted by anything else about Papa Palps, nope, certainly no apprentice who happens to be a red and black Zabrakan he was doing the EXACT SAME THING TO!

...You are going to have to deliver explicit proof Palpatine was trying to kill Luke. Remember, this ******'s force lightning ashes people with no resistance.
 
force lightning ashes people with no resistance.
Windu has resistance, then? Or no cuz the technique threw him before it could ash him?

Also it's being pretty fun to read enormous quotes while not knowing whats G or C and why they have Star Wars canons or smth

But so far this Marr seems to be taking it
 
I decided to compile together, based on this video, all of Luke's confirmed skills and abilities up to Return of the Jedi:

Skill: Luke Skywalker was able to instantly adapt to Return of the Jedi Vader's assault, with the Sith lord being known to use a variant of Form V incorporating techniques from all other saber forms I-VII, a skill indicative of the highest level of saber mastery.

Powers and Abilities:
  • intent sensing picking up on yoda's kindly nature through sight alone
  • Skywalker has as well shown resistance to mental manipulation as he undid the mental programming caused by one dev sibwara with luke and leia training their mental defenses against one another later in life
  • And he has a resistance to force stun as shown in galaxy guide number five
  • gravity manipulation using the force to stick himself onto a stealth x-craft
  • tutaminis with luke attempting to absorb the sith lightning fired upon him in return of the jedi
  • healing factor as shown through the reduced injury skill in galaxy guide number five and his showings in the courtship of princess leia

For what applies to Dark Empire:

Skill: Luke is able to, twice, provide the reborn Darth Sidious a fierce/vicious saber duel and dark empire. Sidious being stated a master of every saber form, with Sidious of course scaling to Yoda, with the jedi grandmaster having to use the utmost of his saber skills against Sidious, with Yoda having statements of surpassing all prior jedi in terms of dealing prowess. These statements are of course shared by fellow prequel trilogy top tiers, such as Anakin and Mace Windu, but regardless Luke Skywalker would scale to this level of lightsaber mastery.

Powers and Abilities:

  • astral projection projecting his visage to han and leia in dark empire
  • cloaking rendering a 1500 meter long spaceship visually undetectable
  • force sever with Luke and Leia managing to separate Sidious from his great rage in dark empire
  • flight with Luke seemingly being able to manipulate his own mass through thought
  • weakness detection sensing the stress point in a wall
Force Knowledge: In terms of force knowledge and his potential abilities, much the same can be said for Luke Skywalker as could be said for Darth Vader. It was stated in dark empire number six that Luke Skywalker knows all the dark knowledge that his father possessed, with Palpatine groaning that he had taught the son of Skywalker in the ways of the dark side all too well. At face value this would give Luke a relative amount of knowledge as Vader, with the dark lord having access to multiple Sith Holocrons with one Holocron being designed to store near infinite knowledge. In dark empire number one it was stated that luke was adept with all the fundamental abilities of a jedi knight.

What applies to Yuuzhan Vong War and beyond:

Skill: While Luke prefers to lean on his skills over the fifth form of saber combat, he has been stated in the legacy of the force era to be the greatest sword handler in the galaxy, surpassing Kyle Katarn, the new jedi order's battle master. A battle master being required to possess knowledge of all saber forms with the first variant of form seven juyo requiring high level mastery of most of the other six saber forms.

A more underrated facet of the jedi, and therefore Luke's skill set, is their combat abilities when compared to masters of martial arts. It has been stated that Palpatine's royal guards were masters of every weapon and all forms of hand-to-hand combat in the galaxy, with their skill still lesser than that of the jedi.

Luke himself is stated to know more hand-to-hand combat forms, than his humanoid combatant had fingers and toes, meaning that Luke would scale above fighters possessing mastery of over at least 21 forms of martial arts.

Powers and Abilities:

  • emotion sensing reading all of the warring emotions inside of Jacen Solo
  • force judgement a weaker variant of forced lightning known to stun opponents with luke using this ability to one-shot a vong possessing saber-resistant skin
  • stamina restoration being able to cure himself of exhaustion through the force
  • shatterpoint with Luke teaching the weakness detecting technique in the legacy of the force era
  • time walking he can passively witness events in the past with kydis using this ability to witness events happening nearly 60 years prior and as well seeing events yet to come with a limited ability to alter this portent of the future
  • force valor the amplification of his strength and speed through the force
  • telekinesis being able to move artificial black holes designed to shift moons
  • illusion creation conjuring an evil turbo lift as well as an entire fake spacecraft
  • presence sensing detecting around 3 million beings across great distances as well as the dark side jedi sabayoth inside hyperspace
  • teleportation being able to teleport away objects from someone's hand as well as himself through mind walking further showcasing this ability through his battle with abilath's essence in a realm quote beyond shadows
  • technopathy through the lightning rod technique rendering hollow cam's inoperable
  • force stun hitting both darth kitus and a sith acolyte in place
Force Knowledge: Skywalker as well, came into possession of the jedi path an in-universe jedi training manual, this text having been instrumental in the training of jedi legends, such as: yoda, obi-wan Kenobi, and anakin skywalker. The jedi path detailing many force abilities saber skills and jedi traditions.

Grandmaster luke by 44 ABY was stated to possess a mastery of the force, and again given luke's prodigious nature instantly adapting to vader's dueling techniques, or mastering the obscure Aing-Tii abilities in two days, it is entirely likely that he would easily come to master these Force Powers.

Also I think this might be good to read: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jxSeLD5Pih19sjh79K1th_DNPuwqmbLQkjbiOrqAXR4/edit?usp=sharing
 
You are going to have to deliver explicit proof Palpatine was trying to kill Luke.
Novelization: Only now at the end, do you understand. Your puerile skills are no match for the power of the dark side. You have paid a price for your lack of vision. Now, young Skywalker, you will pay the price in full. You will die!

Movie: Now, young Skywalker... You will die...

How is that any more explicit?
 
And while Sidious is undoubtedly unleashing his full power when he is grabbed by Vader, only a fraction of his bolts reach him (seen in both the movie and described in the novelization), and despite being amped that was enough to kill him in seconds.
Can you be 1% of 5-D?
 
Back
Top