Cyrus vs Kratos

[The_real_cal_howard]

Kratos is Low 2-C. Cyrus has the pokeballs of Diamond and Pearl (so RR Cyrus). Speed is equalized.


Meh


I'll rip you limb from limb!

 

[TriforcePower1]

So, basically Low 2-C Dialga and Palkia vs Kratos. 2vs1 is already a good advantage Cyrus has. Let's wait for Kratos wankers debaters.

 

[Eficiente]

Unsatisfied serious man takes this.

 

[Kepekley23]

Uh..is this a 2v1?

 

[TriforcePower1]

Technically, no. In practice, yes. Kratos is going to have to fight Dialda and Palkia, but without Omnipresence and some other OP stuff. And with only Low 2-C AP

 

[Kepekley23]

If it's a 2v1, Kratos will be very much hard-pressed to win and I am not betting much.

If it's a 1v1, his chances are significantly improved but I'd still have to try and analyze, since either Dialga or Palkia are significantly difficult foes.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I mean this is Based Autism guy wielding space-time itself. I'm going to be hardpressed to vote for Kratos here. I'll wait and see how this progresses.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It's depending on how Cyrus is feeling on if he'll send out both of the big guns at first. He's evil so it makes sense for him to not play by the rules and send out both.

 

[Eficiente]

Has him or anyone even done that before?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Send out two Pokemon at once? Yes. Double battles are very much canon. And Cyrus has used both, Dialga and Palkia at the same time when he had multiple Red Chains. But in gameplay, he does follow the norm.

 

[Dragopentling]

does Kratos have Soul Manipulation here? Just curious.

 

[Eficiente]

Send out two Pokemon at once? Yes. Double battles are very much canon. And Cyrus has used both, Dialga and Palkia at the same time when he had multiple Red Chains. But in gameplay, he does follow the norm.

Let me rephrase that; Has he ever use more than one PKMN in a 1vs1 or more than 2 in a 2vs2?; Did he ever broke the rules?

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Read what he said. He literally says "He does follow the norm" after saying he uses them both outside of gameplay.

 

[Eficiente]

Not the context that I asked for.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

He uses both Dialga and Palkia to remake the universe but only ever uses pokemon equal to his opponent in an actual fight. So he in-character uses them for their specific hax over space-time but seemingly prefers to fight fairly against other trainers.

In-regards to this I can picture Cyrus using both Dialga and Palkia considering Kratos is far from a normal opponent for him.

 

[Eficiente]

That's like showing someone using numerous hax at once for a manuality to say that he will do the same in combat when he has never done so.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

The issue with using that rationale is that Cyrus would only be specifically following the rules behind pokemon battles. This is just how the culture of the world functions. If it's NOT a pokemon battle then it brings into question whether or not Cyrus would use multiple against Kratos which can not be appropriately argued.

You either go along with the idea that this isn't a pokemon battle and thus Cyrus' ethics don't apply to this or you go with the idea that Cyrus, for some reason, chooses to not use multiple against a psychotic madman that is trying to behead him.

 

[Eficiente]

Do I even need to disprove an assumption of something he has never done that is being reinforced in yet another assumption that cannot be proven?

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I am saying that the question is stupid and has no bearing on the fight. This isn't a pokemon battle.

Any argument regarding such a ridiculous claim would have to bring in the obvious logical failure that Cyrus would let himself be killed because Kratos doesn't have any pokemon to battle him with or that Cyrus would literally let Kratos kill him with no resistance because Cyrus didn't lock eyes with him.

It's all nonsensical in the lense of a life-or-death battle where you have access to the god of time and the god of space to save your own life. He has the means with nothing preventing him from performing the feat.

 

[Eficiente]

Any argument regarding such a ridiculous claim would have to bring in the obvious logical failure that Cyrus would let himself be killed because Kratos doesn't have any pokemon to battle him with or that Cyrus would literally let Kratos kill him with no resistance because Cyrus didn't lock eyes with him.

False equivalence and straw man Fallacy.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

But...it's not? I am stating that if you bring in the rationale that Cyrus would follow the rules of pokemon battles into this fight then it would also extend to the other rules of pokemon battles (can't fight someone without pokemon, can't fight someone if you don't lock eyes with them).

It's not false equivalence, it's an extension of your argument by using the core proposition and it's certainly not a strawman considering it ties into what your argument itself would logically end in.

Cyrus following one rule of pokemon battles but not the other rules is just plain ridiculous. Cyrus has used both Dialga and Palkia outside of battle when the situation has called for it and he only ever follows such ethics within legitimate pokemon battles. I don't see why he would follow the same rationale in a life-or-death fight that has nothing to do with pokemon battling.

I'm going to just ignore this argument. I have made my case for why it is nonsensical and I can see that you are the type to fallback on fallacy claims instead of actually approaching an argument.

 

[Eficiente]

Look, if you truly think that the "can't fight someone if you don't lock eyes with them" isn't a false equivalence of "character will not 2 things at once in combat due to never having done so before in the context of combat" then I just going to stop here by saying that I disagree with you.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

The reason why I find the argument to be a joke is due to the premise. Cyrus has only ever battled in pokemon battles and as such has followed the rules of pokemon battles to a T. Outside of battles he has used multiple pokemon to achieve the result of a universal reset.

We KNOW that Cyrus would use both Dialga and Palkia if it can result in his goals so in a life-or-death non-pokemon battle I don't recognize why Cyrus would refrain from using both of the gods. You are essentially claiming that this extremely serious, pragmatic, genius would actively let the odds be stacked against his favor because he follows the rules of battle against a literal child.

So, yes. I do think your claims to fallacy are wrong. Your own argument is false equivalence for claiming that Cyrus in a pokemon battle is even remotely equivalent to a life-or-death battle between two adults with the powers of literal gods.

 

[Eficiente]

You are essentially claiming that this extremely serious, pragmatic, genius would actively let the odds be stacked against his favor because he follows the rules of battle against a literal child.

The same can be said when fighting a wild PKMN, with the only argument against that being "it's pokemon battle so it doesn't count", which I find insufficient. The same goes to the "the culture doesn't allow them to do that". If this is enough to jump to that assumption then that's fine, I just don't agree with it.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Cyrus has never battled a wild pokemon though? That would be the ethics of a young child protagonist. The only battles Cyrus has ever had is him battling the child protagonist on a fair level with his life not at risk.

 

[Eficiente]

Well, early I asked for evidence of anyone doing that (for combat). And at this point I assume it has never or very rarely been the case.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

That would be a result of the characters having no reason (usually) to battle outside of the constraints of a pokemon battle. As I already stated Cyrus has in-character used Palkia and Dialga's powers at the same time to remake the universe so it's not crazy for him to use both of them outside of the context of a pokemon battle if it could save his life.

We DO have cases of trainers in the anime, movies and I believe manga as having used multiple pokemon against one opponent so we know that humans in the pokemon world are willing to gang up on others if it can save someone or is useful for achieving their goals. Using this is, however, questionable as I am arguing from the perspective of what Games!Cyrus would do.

 

[Eficiente]

Ok.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Bump

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

How far is Kratos's AP in Low 2-C? Both Dialga and Palkia are at least 150X above the baseline Low 2-C.

And here is the thread explaining why Dialga and Palkia are 150X above the baseline:

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1073644

 

[Kepekley23]

Is that accepted?

 

[ABoogieYesSir]

does Kratos have Soul Manipulation here? Just curious.

Dragopentling yes why?