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Hello, this is my first forum post. I have often frequented this site and been impressed by the thorough and insightful delvings of members concerning entities of the Cthulhu Mythos. I wanted to make this thread concerning none other than the Nuclear Chaos of the Ultimate Blackness beyond all reality, the Daemon Sultan Azathoth. This thread will involve points of discussion regarding the incomprehensible entity, and will contain my ramblings and thoughts, but the main point is to get insight and other interpretations or opinions from others. These points are "What does it mean by Azathoth dreaming things "he could not understand" as stated in the poem Fungi from Yuggoth, the title "Blind Idiot God" and what this means, and a fanciful contemplation on why exactly Azathoth is being "lulled".
Incomprehensible Dreams
I'll start off with something I can't seem to comfortably settle on myself. The quote from Fungi from Yuggoth "Here the vast Lord of All in darkness muttered, Things he had dreamed but could not understand". I understand this poem is, well, a poem and should be interpreted metaphorically, but many seem to take this poem as definitive lore rather than flowery and poetic. Now this excerpt raises a few questions I would love to hear everyone's interpretation of
For me it's a bit of the last two points, I hate the idea that Azathoth is literally and undoubtedly unintelligent, as it seems to me almost insulting to think that the ultimate doom and terror is in any way lacking something that even much lesser beings have. I believe it is mostly related to the ideas of incomprehensible and (to us) contradictory "Ultimate Chaos", though the idea that something even more incomprehensible and weird is interesting. Are these dreams incomprehensible to other beings such as Nyarlathotep and Yog-Sothoth? I'm probably looking too deep into something that doesn't need to be, and to be honest it hurts my brain. But at the end of the day I know that everything stated or known is fractional, incomplete and comes from one in-lore source, the Necronomicon, though there are a few instances where characters have in person almost experienced the horrors of the Outer Void.
"Blind Idiot"
Now this might be interesting. A lot of people take the phrase "blind idiot" at face-value, often deducing Azathoth as omnipotent but completely unintelligent. This I think is a very "surface-level" response to the phrase, and when one looks further into it it seems somewhat false. The two key words "blind" and "idiot" aren't used exclusively for Azathoth himself throughout Lovecraft's story, they are also used as a general descriptor for ideas associated with Chaos. Other instances include the two "idiot flute players" that accompany Nyarlathotep the Faceless God at the earth's centre, a mention of "idiot chaos" in the poem "Nyarlathotep" from FFY, as well as "idiot vortices" in the next poem "Azathoth" (notice how this refers to more of something inanimate than a specific entity). These two words correspond with other key words that collectively describe the Ultimate Gods - "blind, voiceless, mindless, tenebrous". Now we know that the Ultimate Gods aren't lacking intelligence as they are clearly shown to have a will throughout the Dream Cycle (the wills that Nyarlathotep carries out). These are in my opinion, all vague descriptors of Chaos that don't necessarily mean exactly what they are thought to, but are used to describe the most incomprehensible, alien and weird nature of the Ultimate Void and it's inhabitants.
Now looking more specifically into the two words "blind" and "idiot". Blind does not seem to be a literal meaning that they are lacking senses that allow sight, but more that these beings care nothing for us, don't care for our prayers, don't take any heed into out wellbeing. It is total indifference. Now "idiot" is an interesting one. I have heard an interesting idea that the word "idiot" refers to the more traditional Greek meaning of the word (Lovecraft was known for using many Latin and Greek phrases in his works and notes) for someone who separates themselves from the whole, which I think would fit Azathoth in a dark and unique way - an entity so incomprehensible and powerful that it is a sort of "cosmic horror" for other cosmic horrors. People might use this title and link it back to the first point of "dreams that he can't understand" and use it as proof that he is a literal "blind idiot", perhaps also incorporating the fact that he is repeatedly called "mindless". However, none of these descriptors point to definite intelligence, but rather actions. A person could be a genius and still be referred to as an idiot in some regards, if they do something dangerous for example. It is also important to state that Azathoth is also said to "rule all time and space". Azathoth is called the "blind idiot god" in Haunter of the Dark and also "mindless", not as a definite deduction of the entities supposed intelligence, but more so rather how the entity acts in a chaotic and incomprehensible manor and the fact it is its own "separated" entity, unlike anything else. In summary there are recurring words used to vaguely describe not only Azathoth but the whole realm he is a part, including the Other Gods. These words are "blind, insane, idiot, mindless, voiceless, tenebrous". The last word is interesting as it is a common motif used for the Other Gods and Azathoth which I'll discuss later.
Why is Azathoth being lulled?
I think this is one of the biggest questions raised by all of Lovecraft's statements about Azathoth is why exactly he is being lulled. Most commonly it is said he is "lulled to sleep" by fans, though him being perpetually asleep seems to be another misconception, as Azathoth is also said to "rule" as well as being "ravenous" and "gnawing hungrily" which suggests some level of being awake. Now there is no solid answer to why exactly he is being "lulled", but it doesn't necessarily mean "lulled to slumber". It could mean that the beings "full power" is being "kept at bay" somehow by the flute player, or that he just likes being entertained by his court. I would love to hear theories about this.
Final thoughts
Azathoth himself is said to
-Mutter dreams he doesn't understand (the most vague, metaphorical and poetic statement about him)
-Rule all of Time and Space
-Gnaw hungrily and be ravenous
-Bubbles and Blasphemes
Interesting that these things all require a mouth of some sort (from our understanding). So artist draw Azathoth with more mouths and less silly tentacles! But seriously, I think just because Azathoth is said to dream things, that's not ALL his does. Of course, there is absolutely no way to understand such a powerful and incomprehensible being. I referred earlier to the description "tenebrous", and this is a fitting description to say the least. Whenever the Other Gods and Azathoth are mentioned, descriptions of "ultimate blackness", "sentient blackness", "black vortices" and the likes go with them. I like to think this blackness represents a totally alien and incomprehensibly deep level of blackness and darkness unlike anything else one could comprehend, and it perfectly encapsulates the essence of these beings. The unknown, the inconceivable, the terrifying, those who lurk out of your sight, and Azathoth, the Daemon Sultan, the Nuclear Chaos, is the absolute ultimate in this regard. A dreamer of the incomprehensible, mutterer of chaos, blaspheming against realities, gnawing and ravenous for heaven-knows what (probably concepts and universes haha) and undisputed ruler of all time and space, from his black throne at the centre of Ultimate Chaos, a reality beyond all concepts of time, space and dimensions, totally alien and separate from any other conceivable reality. Ultimate Chaos. Ultimate Blackness.
Incomprehensible Dreams
I'll start off with something I can't seem to comfortably settle on myself. The quote from Fungi from Yuggoth "Here the vast Lord of All in darkness muttered, Things he had dreamed but could not understand". I understand this poem is, well, a poem and should be interpreted metaphorically, but many seem to take this poem as definitive lore rather than flowery and poetic. Now this excerpt raises a few questions I would love to hear everyone's interpretation of
- Is this a statement on Azathoth's intelligence? People often interpret this to mean he dreams reality and the pipers give it its laws, meaning that Azathoth doesn't understand what he created. This to me undermines his complexity if he is portrayed only as an unintelligent being, and kind of makes him seem less impressive
- Is this rather, not necessarily a statement on Azathoth's intelligence, but telling us that there are scary and incomprehensible things that even Azathoth, the Ultimate Chaos, cannot understand? (While the Ultimate gods dance around him they could be weirded out by the things he says haha)
- Is he muttering things he is currently dreaming or things he has already dreamed? Is he "awake" when he does the muttering or is he "talking in his sleep"
- Is this purely a poetic way of stating that Azathoth's incomprehensible mind "generates" chaos (and the pipers do whatever with it)
For me it's a bit of the last two points, I hate the idea that Azathoth is literally and undoubtedly unintelligent, as it seems to me almost insulting to think that the ultimate doom and terror is in any way lacking something that even much lesser beings have. I believe it is mostly related to the ideas of incomprehensible and (to us) contradictory "Ultimate Chaos", though the idea that something even more incomprehensible and weird is interesting. Are these dreams incomprehensible to other beings such as Nyarlathotep and Yog-Sothoth? I'm probably looking too deep into something that doesn't need to be, and to be honest it hurts my brain. But at the end of the day I know that everything stated or known is fractional, incomplete and comes from one in-lore source, the Necronomicon, though there are a few instances where characters have in person almost experienced the horrors of the Outer Void.
"Blind Idiot"
Now this might be interesting. A lot of people take the phrase "blind idiot" at face-value, often deducing Azathoth as omnipotent but completely unintelligent. This I think is a very "surface-level" response to the phrase, and when one looks further into it it seems somewhat false. The two key words "blind" and "idiot" aren't used exclusively for Azathoth himself throughout Lovecraft's story, they are also used as a general descriptor for ideas associated with Chaos. Other instances include the two "idiot flute players" that accompany Nyarlathotep the Faceless God at the earth's centre, a mention of "idiot chaos" in the poem "Nyarlathotep" from FFY, as well as "idiot vortices" in the next poem "Azathoth" (notice how this refers to more of something inanimate than a specific entity). These two words correspond with other key words that collectively describe the Ultimate Gods - "blind, voiceless, mindless, tenebrous". Now we know that the Ultimate Gods aren't lacking intelligence as they are clearly shown to have a will throughout the Dream Cycle (the wills that Nyarlathotep carries out). These are in my opinion, all vague descriptors of Chaos that don't necessarily mean exactly what they are thought to, but are used to describe the most incomprehensible, alien and weird nature of the Ultimate Void and it's inhabitants.
Now looking more specifically into the two words "blind" and "idiot". Blind does not seem to be a literal meaning that they are lacking senses that allow sight, but more that these beings care nothing for us, don't care for our prayers, don't take any heed into out wellbeing. It is total indifference. Now "idiot" is an interesting one. I have heard an interesting idea that the word "idiot" refers to the more traditional Greek meaning of the word (Lovecraft was known for using many Latin and Greek phrases in his works and notes) for someone who separates themselves from the whole, which I think would fit Azathoth in a dark and unique way - an entity so incomprehensible and powerful that it is a sort of "cosmic horror" for other cosmic horrors. People might use this title and link it back to the first point of "dreams that he can't understand" and use it as proof that he is a literal "blind idiot", perhaps also incorporating the fact that he is repeatedly called "mindless". However, none of these descriptors point to definite intelligence, but rather actions. A person could be a genius and still be referred to as an idiot in some regards, if they do something dangerous for example. It is also important to state that Azathoth is also said to "rule all time and space". Azathoth is called the "blind idiot god" in Haunter of the Dark and also "mindless", not as a definite deduction of the entities supposed intelligence, but more so rather how the entity acts in a chaotic and incomprehensible manor and the fact it is its own "separated" entity, unlike anything else. In summary there are recurring words used to vaguely describe not only Azathoth but the whole realm he is a part, including the Other Gods. These words are "blind, insane, idiot, mindless, voiceless, tenebrous". The last word is interesting as it is a common motif used for the Other Gods and Azathoth which I'll discuss later.
Why is Azathoth being lulled?
I think this is one of the biggest questions raised by all of Lovecraft's statements about Azathoth is why exactly he is being lulled. Most commonly it is said he is "lulled to sleep" by fans, though him being perpetually asleep seems to be another misconception, as Azathoth is also said to "rule" as well as being "ravenous" and "gnawing hungrily" which suggests some level of being awake. Now there is no solid answer to why exactly he is being "lulled", but it doesn't necessarily mean "lulled to slumber". It could mean that the beings "full power" is being "kept at bay" somehow by the flute player, or that he just likes being entertained by his court. I would love to hear theories about this.
Final thoughts
Azathoth himself is said to
-Mutter dreams he doesn't understand (the most vague, metaphorical and poetic statement about him)
-Rule all of Time and Space
-Gnaw hungrily and be ravenous
-Bubbles and Blasphemes
Interesting that these things all require a mouth of some sort (from our understanding). So artist draw Azathoth with more mouths and less silly tentacles! But seriously, I think just because Azathoth is said to dream things, that's not ALL his does. Of course, there is absolutely no way to understand such a powerful and incomprehensible being. I referred earlier to the description "tenebrous", and this is a fitting description to say the least. Whenever the Other Gods and Azathoth are mentioned, descriptions of "ultimate blackness", "sentient blackness", "black vortices" and the likes go with them. I like to think this blackness represents a totally alien and incomprehensibly deep level of blackness and darkness unlike anything else one could comprehend, and it perfectly encapsulates the essence of these beings. The unknown, the inconceivable, the terrifying, those who lurk out of your sight, and Azathoth, the Daemon Sultan, the Nuclear Chaos, is the absolute ultimate in this regard. A dreamer of the incomprehensible, mutterer of chaos, blaspheming against realities, gnawing and ravenous for heaven-knows what (probably concepts and universes haha) and undisputed ruler of all time and space, from his black throne at the centre of Ultimate Chaos, a reality beyond all concepts of time, space and dimensions, totally alien and separate from any other conceivable reality. Ultimate Chaos. Ultimate Blackness.
