Chrom and Lucina downgrade

[fandom_12cheeper]

OK,what's with these two's stats?As much as I'd like it to be the case,Chrom and Lucina have no business having building level DC.Busting a wall,no matter how casually shouldn't bump a character any higherthan wall level+.Also,Chrom shouldn't have massively hypersonic reactions from dodging a lightning bolt when the page dedicated to lightning dodging feats on this very wiki puts the absolute most optimistic value for that at mach 20(hypersonic+)with the low end only being 25 m/s which is only superhuman.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Lightning_dodging_feats

I also have issue with Naga,Grima,and whatever scales to them being continent level since it's based on VERY shaky scaling but whatever.

 

[Lina_Shields]

I would like to see the video where Chrom dodges a lightning bolt. Chrom's speed depends on

• When the lightning bolt's location was when Chrom dodged it

• How far did Chrom move when said lightning bolt moved at Chrom's previous location

Anyways, that "Cloud-to-Ground lightning" section should be removed as it has not been used for calculations for a long time.

We find the timeframe based on the distance said lightning bolt moved, and then find the speed of said character using the timeframe calculated above.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

Fire Emblem Awakening (Cutscene) - Grima's Retur

knock yourself out.
should be lower than massively hypersonic at any rate.

He only moved 1-2 meters at most,anyway.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Ah, perhaps that can be calculated. However, it will likely yield values higher than Subsonic.

This is what the speed stat on Chrom's page was before.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

So an estimate would be Subsonic to Low Supersonic then?

And yeah I agree on the sketchy Continental scaling there. But maybe it's their weapons?

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

Ah,cool.and my proposed DC downgrades?It seems kinda unreasonable to bump Chrom and Lucinas DC to building level just because they're strong enough to bust down castle walls.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

So an estimate would be Subsonic to Low Supersonic then?
And yeah I agree on the sketchy Continental scaling there. But maybe it's their weapons?

Nope.It's based on scaling Naga and by extension Grima to Ashunera from the Tellius games.The problem of which is that it isn't even like Majora scaling for the Zelda series.In fact,even if they weren't from completely different universes it would be pretty much the opposite.Ashunera is an actual goddess whereas Naga and Grima are just dragons,albeit extremely powerful ones.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

So would it be alright if I make the following changes to Chrom and lucinas pages?

-Chrom's reflexes getting downgraded to subsonic

-Chrom and Lucina's DC getting downgraded to wall level+

anything else?

I'm honestly not sure what I'd put Grima and Naga at though without just putting them at city level+ due to sheer size assuming Ashunera scaling isn't deemed legit..

 

[KuuIchigo]

You're going to need an admin to check this before changing them.

 

[Lina_Shields]

I would not touch Chrom's profile until the calculation for Chrom's speed just yet. Otherwise, just set Chrom's speed to unknown.

Also keep in mind that when Chrom and Lucina busted down those walls, they busted down those walls rather casually.

Considering that a character's tiering is based on his/her strongest attack, I say keep her tiering as it is for now.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

eh,even if it was done casually,given that theres a fairly wide gap between wall level and building level isn't it a little presumptuous to just assume that they're building level?wouldn't it be smarter to just say at least wall level?

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I don't follow the series here at all, but i have to really butt in and ask this: How does busting down a wall casually still rate someone as Building level? Like seriously...how does taht even make any sense at all?

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

I don't follow the series here at all, but i have to really butt in and ask this: How does busting down a wall casually still rate someone as Building level? Like seriously...how does taht even make any sense at all?

short answer?It doesn't.

But I guess considering how pathetic the series is aside from god tiers powerwise it kinda needs a bit of wanking to be worth using in versus debates.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Quick calc:

• Chrom's height = 101px = 6 feet (1.83m)
• Distance Chrom Moved = 85px = 1.54m
• Speed of lightning = 440000m/s
• Cloud height (Cumulonimbus) = 1100ft, or 6500ft (looking at the cloud, it seems rather low here; using the low end in this case)

• Timeframe = 1950/440000 = 0.00443 seconds (Low end)
• Timeframe = 330/440000 = 7.5e-4 seconds (High end)

Velocity = Distance/Time

• V = 1.54m/(0.00443 seconds) = 347.63m/s, or Mach 1.02 (Low end)
• V = 1.54m/(7.5e-4 seconds) = 2053.33m/s, or Mach 6.035 (High end)

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

Quick calc:

• Chrom's height = 101px = 6 feet (1.83m)
• Distance Chrom Moved = 85px = 1.54m
• Speed of lightning = 440000m/s
• Cloud height (Cumulonimbus) = 1100ft, or 6500ft (looking at the cloud, it seems rather low here; using the low end in this case)

• Timeframe = 1950/440000 = 0.00443 seconds (Low end)
• Timeframe = 330/440000 = 7.5e-4 seconds (High end)

Velocity = Distance/Time

• V = 1.54m/(0.00443 seconds) = 347.63m/s, or Mach 1.02 (Low end)
• V = 1.54m/(7.5e-4 seconds) = 2053.33m/s, or Mach 6.035 (High end)

Wait,I thought that lightning travels at roughly 100,000 m/s or roughly a quarter of the speed you used?

 

[Lina_Shields]

Speed of lightning


The average speed of lightning is 4.4×10^5 m/s, but can vary mostly in the range of 1.0-14×10^5 m/s.</span>
Edit: 12Cheeper (to post below)

I have listed a low end and a high end. Supersonic for low end, Hypersonic for high end.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

Huh,most sources I can find aside from the obviously wrong ones say about 224000 mph.oh well.

so low supersonic reactions,then?

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

Incidentally,would this also scale to Lucina given that both her and Chrom are portrayed as relatively equal?

 

[Lina_Shields]

If Lucina and Chrom are portrayed relatively equal, I supposed this feat can scale to Lucina as well.

 

[LordXcano]

Where there any frames where the lightning was in view by the time they dodged? If so you may want to do that.

But for now I think Wall level and Hypersonic works.

 

[Lina_Shields]

@LordX: I couldn't find any frames for the lightning dodge.

Are you sure you can't scale Chrom and Lucina to FE:Fates characters tho?

 

[LordXcano]

AFAIK it was only Chrom and Lucina's relatives in Fates, and even then weren't they people that just heavily resembled the kids?

 

[Reppuzan]

Yeah, the Fates kids only resemble the Awakening characters in personality and appearance (but if Rhajat's statement is anything to go by, they could be reincarnation/pre-incarnations).

 

[LordXcano]

I think it's pre-incarnation timeline wise.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Probably, but I still think Lucina/Chrom could be comparable in power/speed to the rest of the Fire Emblem cast, unless they're explicitly mentioned to have gotten weaker.

I believe that was where Building level Lucina comes from, due to scaling.

 

[LordXcano]

I think Building level actually did come from casual wall busting.

 

[Reppuzan]

As XCano mentioned, the two of them bust walls by accident while training or during Support shenanigans, so it's not as much of a stretch as you'd might think.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Castle wall.

If Chrom and Lucina did break castle walls casually, or during training, keep in mind that these castle walls were supposed to be way thicker than your average concrete wall.

I guess Building level seems to be fine here, especially if Chrom and Lucina did fight monsters that could casually level down buildings.

 

[LordXcano]

As XCano mentioned, the two of them bust walls by accident while training or during Support shenanigans, so it's not as much of a stretch as you'd might think.

No I was saying that's where they got the stats. I'm definitely not supporting the rating. Casual wall busting is just Wall level+.

@Crazy IIRC the monsters never bring down a building in Awakening. Although they may in DLC that I haven't played.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

As XCano mentioned, the two of them bust walls by accident while training or during Support shenanigans, so it's not as much of a stretch as you'd might think.

No I was saying that's where they got the stats. I'm definitely not supporting the rating. Casual wall busting is just Wall level+.
@Crazy IIRC the monsters never bring down a building in Awakening. Although they may in DLC that I haven't played.

Most of the DLC in awakening is just fanservice so you're probably not gonna find anything notable.

The issue with scaling them to characters from other games is that Fire Emblem is a confirmed multiverse so it's entirely possible for other lords to be orders of magnitude stronger.

You CAN scale them to Marth but since he's largely featless outside the game that shall not be named,they don't really benefit from it.

 

[LordXcano]

Actually most of Fire Emblem takes place in the same timeline and the current theory is that Outworld gates are just gates to different continents and times. There's a guy who is waaay more knowledgeable on the lore than me I can try to find.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

Actually most of Fire Emblem takes place in the same timeline and the current theory is that Outworld gates are just gates to different continents and times. There's a guy who is waaay more knowledgeable on the lore than me I can try to find.

There's just one tiny problem with that theory:namely,the mage dragons.In Marth's games there were 3 main central dragon clans not counting the all but extinct earth dragons:The divine dragons,fire dragons,and mage dragons,who,for the most part managed to peacefully coexist.The Elibe games directly contradict this due to making mage dragons Divine dragons who have had their souls corrupted a la orcs from Lord of the rings.So unless someone at intelligent systems REALLY ****** up the lore,The archaic one world theory doesn't really make much sense.Besides,how do you explain the future past DLC in awakening which is separate from the era Lucina came from?Well,that and Priam,Ike's descendant explicitly being stated as coming from "another world".The only games that we know for a fact take place in the same timeline are FE1-5 and awakening.Most other games are self contained duologies or stand alone titles.

 

[Meleemaster428]

Fates is canon to the timeline as well thanks to the three retainers, but takes place earlier and in another dimension.

 

[LordXcano]

There's just one tiny problem with that theory:namely,the mage dragons.In Marth's games there were 3 main central dragon clans not counting the all but extinct earth dragons:The divine dragons,fire dragons,and mage dragons,who,for the most part managed to peacefully coexist.The Elibe games directly contradict this due to making mage dragons Divine dragons who have had their souls corrupted a la orcs from Lord of the rings.So unless someone at intelligent systems REALLY ****** up the lore,The archaic one world theory doesn't really make much sense.Besides,how do you explain the future past DLC in awakening which is separate from the era Lucina came from?Well,that and Priam,Ike's descendant explicitly being stated as coming from "another world".The only games that we know for a fact take place in the same timeline are FE1-5 and awakening.Most other games are self contained duologies or stand alone titles.

Lucina obviously came from a different timeline since we see it, but they say everyone comes from a "different world" despite us having evidence they clearly didn't. Also, all the dragons eventually went insane aside from a few. I fail to see how Divine Dragons devolving into Mage Dragons somehow contradicts the lore?

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

There's just one tiny problem with that theory:namely,the mage dragons.In Marth's games there were 3 main central dragon clans not counting the all but extinct earth dragons:The divine dragons,fire dragons,and mage dragons,who,for the most part managed to peacefully coexist.The Elibe games directly contradict this due to making mage dragons Divine dragons who have had their souls corrupted a la orcs from Lord of the rings.So unless someone at intelligent systems REALLY ****** up the lore,The archaic one world theory doesn't really make much sense.Besides,how do you explain the future past DLC in awakening which is separate from the era Lucina came from?Well,that and Priam,Ike's descendant explicitly being stated as coming from "another world".The only games that we know for a fact take place in the same timeline are FE1-5 and awakening.Most other games are self contained duologies or stand alone titles.

Lucina obviously came from a different timeline since we see it, but they say everyone comes from a "different world" despite us having evidence they clearly didn't. Also, all the dragons eventually went insane aside from a few. I fail to see how Divine Dragons devolving into Mage Dragons somehow contradicts the lore?

Because mage dragons were explicitly separate from the divine dragons.

Mage dragons weren't something you "devolved" into.For the longest time,the fire,mage,and divine dragon clans coexisted relatively peacefully.There is absolutely no evidence that Archanean Mage dragons are corrupted divine dragons aside from fanon required for the one world theory to make any sense.

Also,didn't Lucina state that the other children came with her but got separated at some point?(well,aside from morgan but xe's kind of a wild card)I don't recall it ever being stated that every child came from a different world.They came from "another world",but it was all the same world.

Anyway,I don't really see how this matters since we both agree that Chrom and Lucina should be downgraded to wall level-wall level +,don't we?

 

[DontTalk]

Note for those interested: Here is a thread about the lightning calc being applied, since it wasn't yet it seems.