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Blinded by Darkness: Warden VS Tsukuyomi

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Tokoyami was sent by Hawks during training to explore the deep dark, where he ends up finding an Ancient City and well exploring it a Warden was awoken​


Both at 7-C, Final War Arc Tokoyami is used (Dark Environment is restricted)

Both start 20 meters apart

Fight takes place in an
Ancient City

Fight ends in K.O, Incap, or Death

Speed is equalized


"Get the hell out before it hears you":0

"Even darkness... comes in a range of shades":0

Inconclusive:0

cy38bv.webp
34gvho.jpg
 
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Stats for both:

Warden is massively superior to 15.14 Kilotons of TNT with Transonic attack speed

Tokoyami is 10.08 Kilotons of TNT with Dark Shadow being more durable than that.
 
I’m the Minecraft guy, so I might as well hop in here

What’s Tsukuyomi’s answer to a sonic boom that can blitz characters at the Warden’s level that also homes in on people and can neg armor/shields/forcefields?
 
I’m the Minecraft guy, so I might as well hop in here

What’s Tsukuyomi’s answer to a sonic boom that can blitz characters at the Warden’s level that also homes in on people and can neg armor/shields/forcefields?
Not only that, but Warden can legit just infllict darkness which obscures Tsukuyomi's vision.
Tokoyami can also fight at range with far more options as Dark Shadow can act completely independently from him and extend incredibly far and in this key, Dark Shadow can still grow larger within darkness with Tokoyami having complete control over him unlike before and alongside Tokoyami are an incredibly skilled duo compared to the Warden

Flight alongside acrobatics also grants Tokoyami and Dark Shadow far more options when it comes to getting away from the Warden esp given how many towers the Ancient City can have

Class K LS alongside Dark Shadow being able to grow in size means that it could just completely restrain the Warden if need be or just completely throw him around like he did with Moonfish

Darkness could be annoying to deal with but given the Warden is still incredibly loud, Tokoyami and Dark Shadow can react if need be and be on guard

Sonic Boom doesn't really negate anything on Tokoyami but Dark Shadow can defend him from the attacks since it is its own thing entirely. its only 1.5x stronger than Tokoyami physically with Dark Shadow making that difference smaller tho with how the warden upscales, it'll still be devastating but dealing with two targets well blind can also be annoying for the Warden.
 
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Tokoyami can also fight at range with far more options as Dark Shadow can act completely independently from him and extend incredibly far and in this key, Dark Shadow can still grow larger within darkness with Tokoyami having complete control over him unlike before and alongside Tokoyami are an incredibly skilled duo compared to the Warden

Flight alongside acrobatics also grants Tokoyami and Dark Shadow far more options when it comes to getting away from the Warden esp given how many towers the Ancient City can have
Maneuverability means very little when you're up against an undodgable, homing, hit-scan projectile. Unless Tokoyami builds up a LOT of distance, he's not going to dodge it, even with all his stuff
Class K LS alongside Dark Shadow being able to grow in size means that it could just completely restrain the Warden if need be or just completely throw him around like he did with Moonfish
I know this isn't on the profile yet, but the LS portion of this CRT is already accepted, so the Warden's gonna upscale from a Class K feat soon
Darkness could be annoying to deal with but given the Warden is still incredibly loud, Tokoyami and Dark Shadow can react if need be and be on guard
fair ig
Sonic Boom doesn't really negate anything on Tokoyami but Dark Shadow can defend him from the attacks since it is its own thing entirely. its only 1.5x stronger than Tokoyami physically with Dark Shadow making that difference smaller tho with how the warden upscales, it'll still be devastating but dealing with two targets well blind can also be annoying for the Warden.
Tokoyami lacks any kind of stealth on his profile, and I bet his abilities are gonna make a lot of noise, so the Warden will have little issue with tracking him, and therefore know if he's close enough to use the Sonic Boom. The Sonic Boom can also attack multiple targets at once, so Dark Shadow isn't protecting shit. Also, the Sonic Boom homes in on people; the Warden doesn't need to aim.
 
Maneuverability means very little when you're up against an undodgable, homing, hit-scan projectile. Unless Tokoyami builds up a LOT of distance, he's not going to dodge it, even with all his stuff.
the projectile is still tens of meters which makes it the same range as Dark Shadow just extending with its claws out. and the flight is like instant with Tokoyami, he can be on the ground one moment and then in the sky seconds later. you have to keep in mind that the warden still has a brief charge up period and if Tokoyami is in the ground then the Warden is gonna lose any sense of where he is, of course Blindness will make that charge up period less noticeable but given how Tokoyami and Dark Shadow can act perfectly independent of each other and his overall skill within in combat, even if the sonic boom hits Tokoyami himself, it wouldn't stop Dark Shadow from moving.
I know this isn't on the profile yet, but the LS portion of this CRT is already accepted, so the Warden's gonna upscale from a Class K feat soon
yah once that's on the profile then he'd have a 2x LS advantage.
Tokoyami lacks any kind of stealth on his profile, and I bet his abilities are gonna make a lot of noise, so the Warden will have little issue with tracking him, and therefore know if he's close enough to use the Sonic Boom. The Sonic Boom can also attack multiple targets at once, so Dark Shadow isn't protecting shit. Also, the Sonic Boom homes in on people; the Warden doesn't need to aim.
you don't need stealth mastery to just be quiet and Dark Shadow doesn't make much noise itself once activated nor is it a ground based ability so the Warden wouldn't be able to sense the vibrations of it before he gets clocked from multiple different angles by claws

The Sonic Boom is potent and if the Warden does get a sense of where he is then it isn't good but given how destructive Dark Shadow can be just as a by product if he lets it go all out esp with Ragnarök which is literally just allowing Dark Shadow to grow and then releasing it forward destructing anything in its path, all that noise is definitely gonna throw off the Warden just like what happens in the actual game.
 
Wait, I just realized something:
My argument kinda hinges around the Sonic Boom blitzing Tokoyami, but since Tokoyami’s normally faster, that means the match can’t be added to profiles due to speed equalization rules. Even if I get my CRT accepted, it’ll still just be High Hypersonic vs Relativistic+
Oof
thats if Tokoyami does lose, kind of sucks that if Warden does win he can't have it added but i've argued for plenty of reasons why Tokoyami has a good shot.

Edit: actually it should be fine, "in which a major reason" the Sonic Boom is faster but its not exactly a one shot move against Tokoyami, its only about 1.5x stronger likely higher given the Warden does upscale its value but its not a move that the Warden spams nor is it one-shotting Tokoyami

Warden only ever uses its ranged blast when it knows for a fact it can't clear the distance between them, be it the player is too high up or is tunneling away. if Tokoyami is grounded and he senses his vibration then he'll simply rush Tokoyami down, where he has to deal with someone far more skilled and acrobatic since even with the darkness debuff, Tokoyami should still be able to see good enough in front of him with time to react to the warden's charge.

Tokoyami also has greater overall range potential since Dark Shadow acts completely independently of him and with it not being a grounded thing, the Warden wouldn't sense the vibration's coming or if Dark Shadow just starts destroying stuff via Ragnarök then it'll be too many noises for the Warden to truly know. not that it matter since the Warden isn't exactly a dodging god and just face tanks the things that happen to it.

BUMP as well
sounds pretty dark to me 🤔
can't tell if this a bit or not
 
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Btw, Tsukuyomi better not even think about trying to get even remotely close to Warden. You know why? The Warden legit 2 shots steve in full netherite armor. The warden still does an asston of damage to steve in full prot 4.
Tokoyami doesn't have to get close, Dark Shadow can extend itself incredible distances alongside its limbs, grow in size to the point it dwarfs tree, and can form claws out of them for piercing or slashing based attacks nor is the Warden as skilled in combat so even if it or Tokoyami closed the distance, He should still be able to react and dodge through acrobatics and skill alone with flight allowing him for far more mobility around the given arena and for quick attacks.
 
Hold on, I’m going to dinner rn, so it’ll be a while before I can bring up any counter arguments, so see you in a bit ig
 
Tokoyami doesn't have to get close, Dark Shadow can extend itself incredible distances alongside its limbs, grow in size to the point it dwarfs tree, and can form claws out of them for piercing or slashing based attacks nor is the Warden as skilled in combat so even if it or Tokoyami closed the distance, He should still be able to react and dodge through acrobatics and skill alone with flight allowing him for far more mobility around the given arena and for quick attacks.
They are not at all intangible so the warden can just swat them away with no hesitation.
 
They are not at all intangible so the warden can just swat them away with no hesitation.
the argument wasn't the attacks were intangible, its that they have far more ranged options and are coming from something that doesn't make much noise itself once activated and that doesn't give off any vibrations due to being airborne at all times, and if its simply destroying the things in its path via just yknow swatting as well with extended range, the warden is gonna have a hard time knowing exactly where they are due to numerous noises.

Even if Warden does release the sonic boom at Dark Shadow, Dark Shadow scales above the 10.08 kilotons value since it tanks attacks above that value and has only ever been defeated by lighting things up around it, so he could likely tank it and still keep moving forward.

Tokoyami and Dark Shadow dodge the simple "swats" due to being far more skilled in actual combat.
 
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Shit, I forgot to reply earlier, sorry for that. Anyway:
the projectile is still tens of meters which makes it the same range as Dark Shadow just extending with its claws out. and the flight is like instant with Tokoyami, he can be on the ground one moment and then in the sky seconds later. you have to keep in mind that the warden still has a brief charge up period and if Tokoyami is in the ground then the Warden is gonna lose any sense of where he is, of course Blindness will make that charge up period less noticeable but given how Tokoyami and Dark Shadow can act perfectly independent of each other and his overall skill within in combat, even if the sonic boom hits Tokoyami himself, it wouldn't stop Dark Shadow from moving.
How does Tokoyami's flight speed compare to his combat speed, then? If it's not at least somewhat faster than his combat speed, then the Warden shouldn't have much of a problem with aiming at him. Also, once a Warden is attacked, he'll be able to follow where the attacker is, no matter what, so if Tokoyami's constantly attacking and making noise while doing so, I doubt the Warden's gonna lose track of him any time soon.
you don't need stealth mastery to just be quiet and Dark Shadow doesn't make much noise itself once activated nor is it a ground based ability so the Warden wouldn't be able to sense the vibrations of it before he gets clocked from multiple different angles by claws
First off, the Warden being easy to sneak around in-game is less of a weakness for him than it is a feat for Steve. I mean, this thing can detect your exact location from several meters away just by taking a single sniff, that's not something your average Joe can just avoid, let alone a ginormous shadowy crow dude.
Second, what are you talking about? That's absolutely loud enough for the Warden to detect! He can detect a bat flapping its wings, players exiting minecarts, hell, just putting on armor is enough to notify him of your location, all should be way quieter than Tsukuyomi's transformation
Finally, you realize the Warden can detect sounds from mid-air, right? Like, even in-game, the Warden can tell where you are if you're using the Elytra.
The Sonic Boom is potent and if the Warden does get a sense of where he is then it isn't good but given how destructive Dark Shadow can be just as a by product if he lets it go all out esp with Ragnarök which is literally just allowing Dark Shadow to grow and then releasing it forward destructing anything in its path, all that noise is definitely gonna throw off the Warden just like what happens in the actual game.
Isn't that just gonna give away Tokoyami's location? Like, the Warden can also tell where projectiles come from, so long as the attacker is nearby, and since the attack only seems to be 20 m long, it seems to be the case, so why would this be of any benefit to Tokoyami if it's just gonna reveal where he is?
Warden only ever uses its ranged blast when it knows for a fact it can't clear the distance between them, be it the player is too high up or is tunneling away. if Tokoyami is grounded and he senses his vibration then he'll simply rush Tokoyami down, where he has to deal with someone far more skilled and acrobatic since even with the darkness debuff, Tokoyami should still be able to see good enough in front of him with time to react to the warden's charge.
That is fair, Tokoyami is more skilled and agile, but the problem is that the Warden is MUCH more tanky than him, and can 2-shot people 1.5x stronger than what Tokoyami can take, even with Dark Shadow protecting him, so I gotta say that he lacks a lot of good close-range options that won't just get him killed.
Tokoyami doesn't have to get close, Dark Shadow can extend itself incredible distances alongside its limbs, grow in size to the point it dwarfs tree, and can form claws out of them for piercing or slashing based attacks nor is the Warden as skilled in combat so even if it or Tokoyami closed the distance, He should still be able to react and dodge through acrobatics and skill alone with flight allowing him for far more mobility around the given arena and for quick attacks.
If Tokoyami's pelting Warden with attacks, what's stopping the Warden from just borrowing underground and reappearing somewhere with more covering?

Also, I know the profile makes it seem like the Sonic Boom is only 3.43x faster than the Warden's combat speed, but in reality, Transonic is just the low end for this thing. The Sonic Boom is a hit-scan projectile that can hit Mobs from 20 m away without them having any capacity to dodge in time, including Endermen, who can instinctively dodge other projectiles with ease. The only way players have been shown to dodge the Sonic Boom is by building up enough distance, and since Tokoyami's blinded, he's not gonna know how far the Warden is, and therefore not be able to see it before the shockwave is already too close for him to get out of the way
Even if Warden does release the sonic boom at Dark Shadow, Dark Shadow scales above the 10.08 kilotons value since it tanks attacks above that value and has only ever been defeated by lighting things up around it, so he could likely tank it and still keep moving forward.
7-C feat < Ender Dragon = Diamond < Netherite << Enchanted Netherite << Warden
I don't think he can just tank that shit, I'mma be real

Anyway, all this to say, I think you're overestimating Tsukuyomi's chances here. He still has a decent shot, and it will be hard on the Warden, sure, but I just don't see him overcoming that stat gap, nor being able to deal with the Sonic Booms in time due to the darkness effect blocking his vision.

Ok, gotta go to sleep now, getting really late for me, seeya
 
How does Tokoyami's flight speed compare to his combat speed, then? If it's not at least somewhat faster than his combat speed, then the Warden shouldn't have much of a problem with aiming at him. Also, once a Warden is attacked, he'll be able to follow where the attacker is, no matter what, so if Tokoyami's constantly attacking and making noise while doing so, I doubt the Warden's gonna lose track of him any time soon.
his flight speed is the same as his attack speed since hes constantly fighting and flying at the same time. I never doubted the warden couldn't hit him but given how much more mobile he is than the Wither, I do think range spam is far more viable Tokoyami.

Tokoyami also prides himself on his speed from his training with hawks, stating that "Speed beats power" and taking characters with similar speed by surprise with them saying he was "too fast"

and also again, Dark Shadow and Tokoyami are two separate attackers, so he has to deal with tryna melee something that doesn't give off vibrations and can change where its going on the fly well fighting.
First off, the Warden being easy to sneak around in-game is less of a weakness for him than it is a feat for Steve. I mean, this thing can detect your exact location from several meters away just by taking a single sniff, that's not something your average Joe can just avoid, let alone a ginormous shadowy crow dude.
Second, what are you talking about? That's absolutely loud enough for the Warden to detect! He can detect a bat flapping its wings, players exiting minecarts, hell, just putting on armor is enough to notify him of your location, all should be way quieter than Tsukuyomi's transformation
Finally, you realize the Warden can detect sounds from mid-air, right? Like, even in-game, the Warden can tell where you are if you're using the Elytra.
we also see it get overwhelmed by numerous different things so obviously the noises caused by dark shadows destruction are gonna throw it off. and that short kind of disproves the whole "undodgeable" attack since both steve and alex could react and dodge that attack before it hit them.

Tokoyami doesn't transform and already has Dark Shadow active at all times, i'm mainly showing that Dark Shadow doesn't make noise when just sitting there and given its not a grounded enemy, he won't be able to detect any vibrations.

imo its prolly detecting the "Swoosh" that happens when flying so still counts and Dark Shadow does make the same noises when launching but i'm mainly saying he'd anger onto dark shadow rather than Tokoyami.
Isn't that just gonna give away Tokoyami's location? Like, the Warden can also tell where projectiles come from, so long as the attacker is nearby, and since the attack only seems to be 20 m long, it seems to be the case, so why would this be of any benefit to Tokoyami if it's just gonna reveal where he is?
its not a projectile tho, its Dark Shadow launching forward the same way a bat would piss off the Warden making it far more likely to lock onto him rather than Tokoyami and try attacking it.
That is fair, Tokoyami is more skilled and agile, but the problem is that the Warden is MUCH more tanky than him, and can 2-shot people 1.5x stronger than what Tokoyami can take, even with Dark Shadow protecting him, so I gotta say that he lacks a lot of good close-range options that won't just get him killed.
Tokoyami can withstand hits from champs way above his weight class, he took grazing attack from a Base All For One and later survived an attack from a rewinding all for one. at close range hes got plenty of options esp with Dark Shadow being enough of a boost that he can fight against All For One with some help and Dark Shadow even in close quarters is pretty quick in its own right and just being more tanky doesn't make him immune to claw

so although the Warden is an absolute tank, he has to get through Tokoyami's insane level of endurance and options for both long and close quarters combat esp with the skill and agility difference.
If Tokoyami's pelting Warden with attacks, what's stopping the Warden from just borrowing underground and reappearing somewhere with more covering?
The Warden is not smart enough to do that, its animalistic and the only time it burrows away is when it isn't being attacked for long period of time.

"If it does not detect its opponent, it may dig back into the ground until the opponent makes their presence known again" if its getting pelted by Dark Shadow then its gonna stay pissed at it and keep trying to attack it away or sense that Tokoyami is there and try to rush him down in which he has to deal with the skill, agility, and close quarter options they have.
Also, I know the profile makes it seem like the Sonic Boom is only 3.43x faster than the Warden's combat speed, but in reality, Transonic is just the low end for this thing. The Sonic Boom is a hit-scan projectile that can hit Mobs from 20 m away without them having any capacity to dodge in time, including Endermen, who can instinctively dodge other projectiles with ease. The only way players have been shown to dodge the Sonic Boom is by building up enough distance, and since Tokoyami's blinded, he's not gonna know how far the Warden is, and therefore not be able to see it before the shockwave is already too close for him to get out of the way
its still what we have accepted so despite that it is only about 3.43x faster than Tokoyami is, who as I said, who gimmick after training is being incredibly fast and using that to beat those stronger than him.

and thats if the Warden would resort to using the Sonic Boom, its not exactly smart enough to start spamming, it'd get attacked by Dark Shadow and start trying to hit that given he'd have it detected or rush down Tokoyami and Darkness doesn't completely impair the users visions, yes it gets far worse but they can still see in front of them enough to hear and know when the warden is rushing putting them far more on guard.

and again, the Sonic Boom isn't a one-shot, yes its an incredibly potent attack but thats mainly due to how it bypasses armor and such, the Warden is far more threatening physically rather than at range.
7-C feat < Ender Dragon = Diamond < Netherite << Enchanted Netherite << Warden
I don't think he can just tank that shit, I'mma be real

Anyway, all this to say, I think you're overestimating Tsukuyomi's chances here. He still has a decent shot, and it will be hard on the Warden, sure, but I just don't see him overcoming that stat gap, nor being able to deal with the Sonic Booms in time due to the darkness effect blocking his vision.

Ok, gotta go to sleep now, getting really late for me, seeya
as I pointed out, Tokoyami can survive attacks from characters far above his weight class and even keep up with them for extended periods of time.
 
Eh, reading through the args, I'll just concede, you bring up a lot of good points, even if I disagree with some of them. Besides, even if the Warden could win, the matchup can't be added due to speed equalization rules.

A fairer matchup would've probably been against Steve since he has more shit to work with, but ig it's a little late for that, so whatever
 
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