BlazBlue upgrades?

[Brunout]

First, about Susano'o (Terumi). It was stated that he was on par with the master unit itself, in his arcade mode and by trinity in the end of the game


http://imgur.com/a/cfa9k


Wouldn't this boost his HAX resistence? 'Cause if he really is at the same level as M.Unit, then he can resist her reality warping powers (Phenoma intervention)

He also absorbed Noel

http://i.imgur.com/E60MwXV.jpg

In terms of brute strength, he was able to defeat Jubei (which is said even by Hakumen to be the "most powerful creature in the planet") with no effort. And he was not even properly merged.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf4YvBy2Ozc

/\ 3:22:00

Now about Ragna. He was able to beat Susano'o and drag Terumi out of the unit, using the BlazBlue. And after that, he killed Terumi once and for all in base, without using the Azure

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVscXNOGFKw

After that he got the True Azure, and made a world which not even M.Unit could intervene

http://i.imgur.com/eegasRV.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/A3t9UOH.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/tiwo9mo.jpg

Would this put thim at least Low 2-C, since M.Unit is at this tier?


And now, about Jin. He was able to trade blows with Susano'o, with a body that was already reaching its limits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMoBt8MKn2o

/\ 18:12


Also, I don't know if this scale for anything, but just to mention.

It was stated that the explosion of the Nox Nyctores Requiem would destroy the entire Dimension.

http://i.imgur.com/6De6vsJ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/9vjthjj.jpg

And every single Nox Nyctores is powered by a Black Beast

http://i.imgur.com/AyGxD9F.jpg

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

How big is this world? Planet sized? Universe sized?

 

[Brunout]

How big is this world? Planet sized? Universe sized?

What world? The one which was going to be destroyed by the Nox Nyctores explosion?

Universe size. It was basically, several timelines that Master Unit merged into one.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Well I'm not really in full agreement here since it sound off to me. Since their best feats were Planet level before hand. But big jumps aren't too odd. But this one seems off because Ragna had nothing beforehand that makes this jump reasonable. The Blazblue there looked more like an attack and temporary upgrade. And even then he didn't defeat the Susano'o, it looked like he just simply ripped Terumi out as Hakumen was still standing perfectly fine.

Personally I feel this maybe a case of PIS in some sense. Maybe wrong though. Reason I say that as this is similar to Bayonetta vs Aesir and that homestruck final battle in which character with no prior power-ups before the fight and no natural progression suddenly can fight someone far above their normal level.

 

[Brunout]

While the game was progessing, Ragna was getting more and more powerful. It was said by Azrael that Ragna still didn't reached his full potential (even Rachel was impressed. "He's matching Azrael blow-by-blow without even using the Blazblue"). Kagura and others noticed it too. Also, the one who was standing was jin, not Hakumen, He entered the unity after ragna dragged terumi out of it. Hakumen "died" before that fight.

The unity is Terumi original body. Ragna being able to pierce it with his power is incredibly.

And makes sense Ragna getting high boosts, since he is the true guardian of the azure, like stated in the game

Also, Terumi said that he was defeated by ragna. "I was not expecting to be defeated while using the Susano'o unit"

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Jin, Hakumen same person to me.

Anyway. True, but to go from Planet level to Universe level like that...is not so odd considering Frieza exists.... I don't know seems fishy. I've asked Azzy to comment here.

 

[Brunout]

Jin, Hakumen same person to me.
Anyway. True, but to go from Planet level to Universe level like that...is not so odd considering Frieza exists.... I don't know seems fishy. I've asked Azzy to comment here.

Well, in a way they are the same person

Ok

 

[Brunout]

Bump

 

[Shadowedge27]

From what I understand Ragna somehow used the IDEA engine to force his Azure Grimmore out of control to defeat Terumi with the Susanoo. Terumi admitted that he was not strong enough to beat the Black Beast and that he would need the hatred and despair of the whole world to give him the power to beat it (remembering Terumi gets stronger through the hatred, despair and fear of others towards him) Also when he and Ragna fought at the Azure Horizon he stated that the Azure had chosen him and Ragna to be the only ones capable of wielding the true azure or the Azure Flame Grimmore and Ragna kills him leaving only him available. Terumi stated multiple times that with its power he will surpass Ameteratsu and TA system. But Rachel said that Terumi with the Susanoo is not strong enough to damage Ameteratsu.

 

[Brunout]

No, he said that the hatred would make him stronger than the "black beast" (probably the original one). His goal was not to defeat it

Rachel never said that. In fact, she never had a chance to see Susano'o, if I remember. The one who said that was Trinity, the same who said that the Susano'o is at the same level as amaterasu (contradiction?)

Now thinking about it. Susano'o can't harm her, but the black beast could (amped takemikazuchi). This reinforcers the idea of the black beast being above planet level.

The rest is correct.

 

[Shadowedge27]

Maybe because of its properties? I mean the Black Beast existed outside of logic which made it invulnarable to a lot of things. Goku at SSGSS form wouldnt be able to scratch it because he doesnt have magic. Maybe there is about the Master unit that made it invulnarable to Susanoo? I dont know. By the way I have a hypothesis about the Black Beast. You see it is stated by a few people to be an out of control couldron and its body is made out of seither so it generayes seither cause it is a couldron. Meaning the Black Beast can potentially grow infinetly the longer it lives. To support this claim both Jubei and Terumi stated that it grew bigger when it reawakened after its one year slumber. In other words if a four years old Black Beast has enough seither to envelope the entire planet and said seither can be used to power up all the hierachal cities for nearly a century without any sign of running out then how powerful would it be if it was ten years old orone hundred years old. There are also rumours that there is a Black Beast that has been slumbering for hundred of years...

 

[Brunout]

nah, beings like valkenhyan, Nine, Izanami, and rachel are outside of logic as well, and yet can't harm amaterasu.


About the Beast growing infinitely, maybe? The sad thing is that the new game doesn't add too much information about the beast.

yep, there was a black beast that has been slumbering for hundreds of years. In Xblaze code: Embryo, is said that the black beast was the "avatar of destruction" that was calmed down by the "azure shrine maiden" from ancient times.

 

[Zeldasmash]

I think that Ragna being at least Low 2-C due to Central Fiction's ending is legit.

Everything else though....debatable.

The Black Beast being higher then at least Planet level does sound plausible due to Jubei and Terumi's statements that it grew stronger when it awoke from it's slumber. However, with the The Black Beast from XBlaze, was that Black Beast ever fought in BlazBlue by the Six Heroes?

As for Susanos's claim that he can destroy the Master Unit therefore being as strong as her, i don't know. Es stated that he is as strong as the Azure, which is one of the strongest, if not the strongest element or substance in all of BlazBlue, surpassing even the Master Unit. However, i'm not sure if that is legitimate. If that's the case, then why even need to do the plan he set out to do and just finish Amaterasu off right then and there? Why would he need to be stronger then the Black Beast when he already clearly is?

I do buy the Black Beast being higher then Planet level, being potentially Multi-Planet (which scales everyone with 5-C to 5-B to his level), but Susano'o being as strong as the Master Unit is very tricky and hard to believe due to lack of certified information regarding his claim and Es' claim.

 

[Brunout]

Nah, that black beast came before the existence of the 6 heroes. Hundreds of years before


Es claimed that? I thought that she only claimed that he is really strong. Susano'o was never said to be stronger. At max, just equal (by trinity. Yet trinity also said that Susano'o can't harm amaterasu) to M.Unit


Also, in the end of the game, he absorbed Noel, and said that he would still exist even after the doomsday.

The doomsday is like, the destruction of the timeline and the construction of a new one.

 

[Zeldasmash]

Es said that Susano'o is about as strong as the Azure. The Azure is among the strongest, if not the strongest substance in BlazBlue and is what makes the Boundary what it is.

Being about as strong as the Azure basically puts you in damn near the same level as the Master Unit due to being basically the heart and soul of the Boundary which has the capacity to store multiple timelines, if not limitless, inside and keep tabs on all of them, including the Master Unit herself.

Completely forgot about Susano'o absorbing Noel, though.

 

[Brunout]

Hm, so Susano'o being strong as M.Unit is a fallacy.


Now about the others things. He was able to beat Jubei like a fly, and he wasn't even properly merged. Jubei is said to be the strongest creature even by hakumen (I know that it's a exaggeration, but it shows that Hakumen aknowledges him as a strong being).

And Jin, he trade blows with Susano'o (after he absorbing Noel) even with his body at its limits. Wouldn't this put him at least at planet level (he is at country in his profile)?

And Ragna, he was able to beat Terumi without the aid of the BlazBlue. I think that his base stats should receive a upgrade too

 

[Zeldasmash]

If Jin recieves an upgrade to 5-C to 5-B, then characters like Kagura, Valkenhayn, Terumi (base), the Murakumos, Jubei, ect, are scaled to this.

As for the Susano'o getting upgrade, until The Black Beast gets an upgrade, we should just leave the 5-B tiering alone and just leave it at that.

Ragna getting upgraded to 2-C due to the ending i think is alright considering he overrided the will of the Master Unit, which should put him above her.

 

[Brunout]

Kagura yes. Even weakened, he was able to stelamate Azrael without 4 seals (he has 5 at total)

Valkenhayn, maybe. In centralfiction he lost to Hazama. murakumos? IDK. I think that only Nu, and thats because she absorbed takemikazuchi If I remember (That's why she was able to hold her own against Jubei)

 

[Zeldasmash]

Valkenhayn now is nowhere near as strong as how he was back during the Dark War, so him having trouble against Hazama isn't surprising. During the Dark War, he fought the Black Beast unarmed and lived (most of the Six Heroes should get a Dark War category showcasing how strong they were back then).

Mu should scale to Jin, which if he gets the upgrade, puts her in 5-C to 5-B.

 

[Brunout]

Hm, true


Oh yeah, I forgot about Mu

 

[Shadowedge27]

Wow, I expected BB and Ragna to be upgraded not almost every single character lol.

 

[Shadowedge27]

Did ES say that Susanoo is as strong as the Azure before or aftr he absorbed Noel because Noel being the Siccesor of the Azure may have contributed to the massive power up.

 

[Brunout]

Did ES say that Susanoo is as strong as the Azure before or aftr he absorbed Noel because Noel being the Siccesor of the Azure may have contributed to the massive power up.

she said it before

 

[Brunout]

bump

 

[Zeldasmash]

This might be a little off topic, but here are some things about the tierings that don't make sense to me:

Characters like Kokonoe are 5-C to 5-B because of the Black Beast and in Kokonoe's case, her Astral. Characters like Nine are superior to Kokonoe which puts her at the same level. Base Terumi was able to kill Nine back during the Dark War and Nine has always acknowledged and recognized Terumi as being very powerful, if not stronger then her. Why is Base Terumi on the same level as Hazama, who is weaker then him, if he is on the same level, or stronger, then Nine?

Rachel during her prime is easily higher then 6-B, probably on the same level as the other high tiers. Mu-12 should also scale to this considering she managed to endure an assault from Black Beast Ragna at the end of Chrono Phantasma. Jubei also scales to this (In fact, most if not all the Six Heroes should be Tier 5, except maybe Trinity).

 

[Brunout]

IDK why Terumi is rated at the same level as Hazama, when he is clearly superior.

True, rachel while she was a oberserver was damn powerful. Mu-12 too is way powerful.

Jubei is still below FP Terumi though, since Susano'o defeated Jubei like he was nothing

Agree about trinity too. She focus more in supporting than combat

 

[Shadowedge27]

Actually this may come as a suprise but there was no fight. Terumi took Nine and Trinity by suprise when he killed them so scaling him with her is illogical. But base Terumi at full power is OP af because he was able to fight both Hakumen at 100% and Jubei at his prime at once. Yes Jubei was actually severly weakened due to age in CF as hinted by Hakumen stating that he in the past could have easily cut down Nu so at that time he was around, if not at, his prime. And Terumi in base, not even in Susanoo fought both of them... while laughing his ass of. He was even able to knock out Jubei momentarily and kept up with Hakumen without breathing hard. The only reason they won was because they caught him of guard with Hakumen's Kamikaze attack by tackling both of them into the boundary. Now you ask why he was scared of Jubei in CT to CP. Thats because he was like Hakumen. He had to rely on being observed by a few beings such as Izanami, Noel and used negative feelings towards him to anchor himself to the ground. With the Susanoo which is his other half he should at least be as powerful as he was back then... if not more stronger.

 

[Brunout]

He only fought Jubei and Hakumen at the same time because he was near a cauldron, though. He gets stronger when this happen.

If he had trouble against Jubei's brother in the novel (which is weaker than Jubei) and got injured to the point that Valkenhayn could easily defeat and take him to Alucard castle, I doubt that he could easily take on Jubei and Hakumen without the help of a cauldron

 

[Zeldasmash]

Granted, he was possessing Kazuma's body who was rejecting Terumi quite a bit instead of his own body, so it would make sense for him to have a little trouble.

The cauldron is another thing that I think Terumi and Hazama should have as a key category. It does improve them by a noticeable amount (Terumi managing to take 100% Hakumen and Jubei on his prime with damn near no effort is a prime example).

 

[Brunout]

If I remember, at that point kazuma and Terumi minds and bodies were almost perfectly sync.


In his original Body (without Susano'o) maybe terumi could've defeated him without much trouble, but I still doubt that he could take both Jubei and Hakumen at their prime.


Agreed. Still waiting for an ADM to see this thread.

 

[Shadowedge27]

I dont think the couldron could help like it did Hazama. Hazama is an Azure Grimmore that uses is powered by seither but Kazuma wasnt. If Kazuma was like that thdn why did his body get destroyed upon entering the Boundary? Its hinted by Naoto that Hazama survived. The thing with Jubei's brother may have been due to the sword he usrd which was made specificly to kill spirits and that Jubeis brother had seen Terumi in spirit form and can force him into that form and hit him with the sword.

 

[Shadowedge27]

Yeah, Jubei used that ability to force him out of Kazuma which took him by suprise and Hakumen tackled him before he could regain his bearing.

 

[Zeldasmash]

True, but that doesn't change the fact that Terumi managed to take on both Hakumen and Jubei in their prime singlehandedly at the same time and was beating them almost effortlessley when next to a cauldron.

Terumi and Hazama both get massive boosts when next to a cauldron and I think it should be a Key category on both their pages (I don't know if it affects Susano'o).

 

[Brunout]

if I recall correctly, isn't terumi who gets stronger near a cauldron, its Hakumen and Jubei who get weak near one that's open

still need to check it tho

 

[Shadowedge27]

Jubei is stated to have a natural resistance to seither wherelse Hakumen should be clnsidered near immune to seither if he can stay in the boundary for almost a century.

 

[Shadowedge27]

Wouldnt this mean that Terumi's host was also weakened by the seither since he wasnt a grimmore and Kazuma was destroyed entering the boundary. Wouldnt that mean Terumi was also weakened? And why was it that Trrumi and Hazama couldnt be in sync?

 

[Brunout]

Jubei has natural resistance to small to medium portions of seithr. An cauldron concentrates huge amounts of seithr. And they were not weakened because of it, and yes because cauldrons are openings to the boundary. The effects of being near of a open cauldron are so huge that Roy (Kokonoe assistant) got himself transformed into Arakune just for being near one.


And no he wasn't weakened. Like Hazama, Kazuma is also created by relius with the only function of being a vessel to Terumi


Also, being sealed in the cauldron AND just jumping into it are two different things. Kazuma, Hakumen and Terumi were sealed inside the boundary. That's why no one of them stepped in some timeline. Because they were sealed. This is different from just "traveling" in it.


Hakumen, who had mastered the power of order, only survived all these years sealed in the boundary because of the Susano'o unit, like stated in his story in calamity trigger.

Also, not even for Hazama it's 100% of sure that he can survive traveling in the boundary. When he jumped, Rachel and trinity were sure that he died. He just got lucky that he managed to land in another timeline (Naoto's timeline) instead of dying. Also, he jumping in the cauldron was supposed to be a suicidal move, since he said that "I prefer to die instead of being saved by Ragna"


So yea, he just got lucky, like Relius in the past.

 

[Shadowedge27]

Relius is really lucky because he traveled through time by being swallowed by the Black Beast which, apparently, send him back in time so the Black Beast is also a time machine now. Also about how powerful Terumi is with Susanoo lets remember how a Sanshikin unit works. It draws energy directly from the boundary so it will have infinite stamina and power. It is obviously powered by seither and if Terumi got a power up due to being near a couldron that would mean that it was due to the seither in the area. As conclusion, Terumi in Susanoo should be even more powerful than the time he fought Jubei and Hakumen at their prime.

 

[Brunout]

Yea, Terumi with the susano'o unit is probably stronger than hakumen 100%

Even when not properly merged he defeated Jubei with 0 effort. Course, Jubei was not strong as he was in dark war, but the difference is not high

 

[Shadowedge27]

Ijust realised something. So Terumi becomes stronger the more seither around right. Well how about if he right below the Azure itself? Wouldnt that mean he was at least as strong as he was when he fought Hakumen and Jubei? And Ragna beat him. Ragna most probably disengage Blazblue sl that he would not be corupted by the Black Beast and it was stated by someone else that Ragna beat him without the Azure... does that mean he is stronger than Jubei and Hakumen at 100%?!