• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
315
56
This thread is in response to this blog outlining alleged abilities granted to Sonic after he collected a billion power rings. I've already made quite a long comment on the blog itself, but I thought I would make a thread to more thoroughly go over my points.

I'll briefly go over the few points that I feel I did a thorough enough job refuting in my original comment before moving on to my big point of contention with this topic.

Sonic's aura negated Finitevus' hex allowing him to use the Master Emerald

Scourge uses the emerald without Finitevus' knowing with no issue. Locke was simply wrong in his assumption that others were blocked from its power.

Sonic's aura negated Finitevus' hex on Knuckles

This is simply just not true. Locke sacrifices himself to break the hex. Sonic does claim to be "making progress" in, as he puts it, "beating the evil out of Knuckles" but he is not the cause of Knuckles' return.

Also, worth noting is that, as far as I'm aware, Sonic is only mentioned having an evil negating/positive influencing aura in reference to his super form. This seems to imply that this positive influence is a byproduct of him absorbing positive energy from the emeralds, something specifically mentioned in the fight against Perfect Chaos that issue 184 references.

While not mentioned on the original blog, I've also seen people credit the ring aura for bringing Sonic back after being erased by the Ultimate Annihilator in issue 50. This, however, is not what happened. The Annihilator was altered to only effect Eggma, Sonic was not in any danger. The Annihilator overloading is the reason Sonic and all of Mobius disappeared before returning a moment later. (with some other unimportant side effects) Sonic's ring aura had nothing to do with this.

Now for the big one.

Then there's the idea that the aura works to warp reality to ensure Sonic's victory. This idea comes from a theory proposed by Eggman after being defeated by Sonic in issue 200 and is seemingly supported by this statement from Mammoth Mogul.

However, as it turns out, Mogul is incorrect about the cause of his defeat. Unbeknown to him, the Ancient Walkers cursed him to fail meaning Sonic's alleged fate manipulation is not what allowed him to win, or as I put it before, "it's not that reality changed to have Sonic win, it changed to have Mogul lose".

Now I haven't been all caught up with the comics after the first Genesis Wave, but for the sake of this argument, I read all of Eggman's scenes from issue 210 when he proposes the idea through 240 a bit after the Genesis event and all of Eggman and Wily's dialogue in Worlds Collide.

In my original comment I made the assumption that Eggman uses the idea of reality warping in Sonic's favor as a coping mechanism, and after reading more of the comic, I still stand by this. We literally see him start to go mad again before calming himself dow by reminding himself that "the chaos is the constant" in issue 230.

The idea that he's lost not due to his own folly but due to cosmic intervention is what allows him to come back from insanity; he then obsesses over this idea with it being the sole driving force behind his plans until Sally is robotisized. Once this happens his priorities shift from trying to circumvent the "constant chaos" surrounding Sonic to using Sally to discourage the Freedom Fighters as a whole, and even succeeds to a degree. Even when Sonic thwarts an attack on Furville in issue 236 and on the Wolf Pack and Felidae in issue 238 he doesn't blame cosmic interference, because his priorities have shifted.

It's also worth noting that Snively, while not as smart as Eggman, is still a genius in his own right and shows no confidence in Eggman's plan or ideas regarding Sonic's "constant chaos" this could be seen as Snivley's general distaste for his uncle as he continues to berate his obsessive behavior after Sally's robotization, but he grants no merit to the theory.

To further substantiate that he used this theory merely to cope, when collaborating with Dr. Wily he doesn't mention the idea of Sonic embodying chaos to himself or Wily; he never informs Wily of this theory despite their joined venture to defeat Sonic. He even goes so far as to say he thinks Mega Man might defeat Sonic in Sonic Universe 52. If he truly believed in this idea instead of it being a way to previously keep him sane, it would only make sense for him to factor it into their plan.

Even going beyond the idea of him using this idea to stay sane, his theory has a few holes.

His original explanation of the theory in issue 210 and his dialogue after losing a chaos emerald in issue 231 implies that he believes having more chaos energy is the basis for having reality work towards one's favor. This is fundamentally untrue as many characters with more chaos energy than Sonic have been defeated and in some cases such as the Ancient Walkers or Knuckles even died.

Sonic himself has also been defeated before. Most notably in issue 175 when he loses to Eggman directly. Scourge had also previously beaten him in combat in issues 161 and 165. According to Silver, he, along with the rest of the Freedom Fighters are defeated by a traitor at some point. Heck even in issue 39, a story that specifically references his aura, he's able to be knocked out and robotisized. Depending on how you interpret the end of Worlds Collide one could also say he "failed" since the multiverse was improperly restored.

Overall, the only aspect of Sonic's ring aura I agree with is that it protects his humanity (mobianity?) from being corrupted and when given more power can restore his humanity if lost. (or whatever, it unrobotisized him, you know what I mean)

Thank you for reading.


Edit: If my memory kicks in I'll add anything else I find relevant.
 
1 Scourge is an alternate version of Sonic,so it's not farfetched to say he has similar abilities/resistances(besides charging a Warp Ring=/= Transforming)

2 Sonic was in the control room while the UA went off which overloaded & caused the creation/destruction of several Zones,regardless of Snively's plans to only affect Robotnik,while it is true that all of Knothole blipped in & out of existence,something very different happens to Sonic himself otherwise every inhabitant of Knothole would've been KO'D just like him afterwords(the ring is shown on panel)

3 Chaos Siphons,Sword of Acorns, & Titan Tails directly counter Chaos Energy. Chaos Knuckles,Ancient Walkers,Enerjak,& Master Mogul all had trouble with these instruments. Even the Chaos Energy cannon has siphoned Super Sonic before.

4 Sonic is only defeated temporarily,this is what Mogul is referring to as "Someone or something" will save him,Super Sonic still salvaged reality albeit with some changes,if he would've failed completely there would've been no reality at all.

At the end of the day it does seem like the various writers had conflicting views which make all of this real messy,Flynn has stated this several times, there's PIS about for sure.
 
They only thing I can see your point is Super Sonic alone having Holy Manipulation, and not base.

I agree with INFINITUM for the rest.
 
1 Scourge having similar chaos abilities is indeed not farfetched, but this would mean he also has similar fate hax by extension and his piss-poor track record works against that idea. Naturally, charging a warp ring is different from going super, but they both require using the emerald's power, something Locke incorrectly assumed others couldn't do. Additionally, as I said in my comment back on the original blog, Finivevus shows no surprise is Sonic being able to use the Master Emerald, only in that he did so without being affected by the hex.

2 Of course, Sonic was exhausted, he just had an extensive battle with Robotnik. The ring aura has been referenced before, with no such reference being made in this story or the Encyclopedia. Rotor's explanation and the description in the Encyclopedia both indicate Sonic was erased the same as Mobius and returned the same way. Claiming the ring aura brought Sonic is to say it also brought back all of Mobius, which is obviously not the case.

3 This doesn't discredit the point. If having more energy results in having better fate hax, then fate could/should have intervened to have them not fall to such items. Furthermore, no such items were used against the Ancient Walkers, so the point still stands.

4 This doesn't really work as evidence. As the comic goes on no one is truly defeated (well, except the guys who died obviously...except Knuckles) because the story has to continue. As you know, SEGA mandates that Sonic must win, however, this does not require that there be an in-universe force to cause it. (to clarify, I do not mean that because SEGA's mandate doesn't say there must be such a force that there isn't, I am saying that them mandating that Sonic win does not mean there is)
 
Now you're just grasping at straws,regardless if the the Walkers were dying they were still higher dimensional & non-coporeal,it would take a weapon with several degrees of infinity worth of power to kill them. The Sword & Crown were also needed to heal them in the same story arc so it killing them doesn't seem unlikely.
 
The sword was able to drain an Enerjak avatar (and kind of Chaos Knuckles on Dark Mobius) it's conceivable that it could have severely wounded or killed them under regular circumstances. The point I'm trying to make is the sword and its ability to counter chaos energy isn't what killed the walkers. Them being weak is only relevant in that the breach wouldn't have done them in otherwise.
 
No, the rift was caused by the energy of the Sword of Acorns, if it was caused by her energy, the dimensional slit also received energy. It's the same thing
 
I mean if you want to say the sword's energy is what killed them, I can't stop you, but the comic and encyclopedia say the rift/shockwave caused by the breach is what kills them not the sword.
 
You did not understand. It does not matter if it was the slit or the sword, for the slit that killed the Ancient Walkers still contained the energy of the Sword
 
Back
Top