Adversary upgrade (Marvel)

[Freedomstar]

Adversary should be rated 1-A like his peer the Phoenix Force

Adversary is not from the Earthly plane he always uses incarnations/avatars

When he appeared in the Echo mini series the incarnation he used was only a shadow of himself. It was stated for that incarnation to be fully manifest or back to his normal levels, he needed the Phoenix Force from Echo.

Adversary just by siphoning off some of the force from Echo to regain his strength took over the White Hot Room. Which he didn't regain his full strength but he gained some powers and controlling the WHR shows his prowess.
Then after this story it was exposed Adversary is an oppositional force to the Phoenix.


I re-read his arc and Adversary is overlooked. But here are some feats that support 1-A rating
Adversary was tearing reality apart that extended from Otherworld. He was going to turn reality into the ultimate void -Oblivion- Unending Chaos—The End of All. Otherworld is a pan-dimension beyond time and beyond and the multiverse. Destiny looking into the future stated everything was beyond of boundaries of possibility due to Adversary.

Naze is the human Avatar of Adversary with a force of unheard and unfelt of since the beginning of creation destroyed Forge’s mountain magical source was a Nexus of Power existing on all Earths in the multiverse which is infinite universes. Though Adversary took care of all the magical mountains in all parallel Earths.... The nexus of power still existed but Adversary tainted all of it with his chaos.

Destiny who can see timelines and possibilities stated everything is gone

Destiny confirms all timeliness and being twisted and the fabric of reality was being torn. All of Eternity was about to be destroyed

Adversary's chaos affected the Timestream itself that it overwhelmed all alternatives

It was confirmed when Adversary came to Otherworld order of existence shattered in to primal chaos which was destroying all of reality. Adversary was warping the Starlight Citadel which encompasses all of the omniverse.

It was confirmed in several times Adversary affected the omniverse in X-grand design which is stated to be canon

Even in the What If Story which is still canon to Adversary (stated to be pan-dimensional infinite dimensionality) and Roma (who is all her counterparts in one body). Adversary wrestled Roma for control over the omniverse while also warping the Starlight Citadel which encompasses all of existence and was winning. It also tells you to refer back to Xmen 225 for the actual depiction.

The same story above. When Adversary is finally banished into the prison dimension ORDER is immediately restored Roma's Starlight Citadel (the Omniversal Nexus Adversary had control of) and the Omniverse Adversary tainted with his chaos

Stated shadows and the darkness lead back to his territory. Which is the cold dark room the opposite number of the WHR. It is stated this dimension is beyond death in the Mystery and also the cold dark underneath everything. This means the Adversary is not only primal chaos but the darkness underneath everything in Marvel.

 

[Eseseso]

Seems fine at a glance. Would also upgrade Storm's High 1-B end to 1-A.

 

[Freedomstar]

Yeah, she should be. Storm defeated Adversary when he used followers to make himself strong enough to break out of the prison dimension. Adversary was a threat to the Wakandan gods. Bast for example is the creator of galaxies and Thoth is strong enough not to let Set take over Atum.
She also defeated him in his own dimension with the other abstracts aligned with him.

The echo story involving a shadow of an incarnation and needing phoenix-level energy to fully manifest seals the deal.
Also, him having the power to make a trans-temporal wave that would affect the entire Time continuum, a realm above existence. He would affect all timelines and all worlds.

 

[Eseseso]

Curious, would his 1-A self be a whole new key (with his original High 1-B key being an Avatar of sorts), or would it just replace his current key?

 

[Freedomstar]

Well, Adversary appeared in Cable and X-Force 2010 #16 but only as a piece of himself. This piece was fully manifested and took over Forge's body as an avatar. Even as a piece, he was stated to destroy existence and be pan-dimensional

In 2015 in Howling Commandos Adversary was still in the prison dimension working through possession and shadows of several supernatural beings and Spinx to get a relic that could take over the world. He was stated to be the one who lurks in the shadows and the shadows themselves.

2017/2018 Black Panther Adversary finally breaks out of the Prison dimension by psychically manipulating a servant to basically go on a campaign to restore his full power. A dimension meant to trap him was too weak using the faith of his followers. Meaning he was stronger than ever. He drove off Bast and Thoth. Storm accesses her godhead and defeats him.

2019 Echo miniseries Adversary slips from his prison dimension from the Crossroads (infinite nexus) as a shadow of himself. It's stated he needed the Phoenix force to fully manifest. It was shown that this shadow was nothing more than an incarnation.

2024 it's shown Adversary is from the Cold Dark Room the opposite number of the White Hot Room. It's coldness and darkness underneath Marvel.

However, his incarnation isn't weak Adversary used a fetus to be born in the earthy plane. Haven thought the fetus was a mutant and used its powers to repeatedly make a plane of reality to be connected to all of the multiverse and Oblivion. He was about to use a tribe member in the scan above and cause a trans-temporal wave of destructive chaos in the omniverse. Adversary getting a little power took over the White Hot Room. He also broke the timeline before he got some power.

He just needs a physical avatar for reality.

I would say his avatars being 1-A due to being an omniversal threat. He is a threat to all of Eternity stated to turn reality into Oblivion and superior to 1-B beings. He should be high 1-A as his true self being in the cold dark room which is his territory opposite of phoenix.

 

[Freedomstar]

bump

 

[henryzx900ruly]

Seems fine. I agree

 

[Freedomstar]

Is there any mod that can look at this and approve it?

 

[Freedomstar]

Adversary was going to destroy Marvel's multiverse once he got free from the prison dimension

Adversary had the power to destroy Kummandla an extra-dimensional space forged by Wakanda's spirit under a lake. The disciples of the elder gods could endure multiversal destruction with this realm. However, they could not endure the destruction of this realm. Adversary was going to destroy everything in the multiverse physically and spiritually which worried Zawavari. The previous multiversal destruction was the Beyonders destroying reality to eliminate Enigma. It was they would destroy the physical reality. Adversary would do the same but also destroy all spiritual realms too.

Using the Elder gods power Zawavari created a dimension tied to the Wakanda which withstood the collapse of the multiverse because the Beyonders only destroyed the multiverse physically and not spiritually. Adversary was going to do both.

 

[Excellence616]

Looks good

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Uh. Warping the WHR is explicitly High 1-A as of now, not just 1-A, If Goofy's thread gets accepted though that may change (for better or for worse remains to be seen)

 

[Everywhereman]

The Adversary didn’t control the WHR though. All he did was put Echo in an illusion so she, a relatively inexperienced Phoenix host, no longer had conscious control over it. Shown here

 

[Freedomstar]

It was specifically stated when Adversary defeated Echo he took control of the White Hot Room. He's known for taking control of Nexus. He did so for the Starlight Citadel and Forge's mountain of power which is connected to all realities.

Adversary was stopped from trying to take the Phoenix Force. Echo got tired and took control back of the White Hot Room changing to the cosmos since Adversary took control of the dimension which is the mindscape of Phoenix with shadows.

Also, Adversary is from the Cold Dark Room which is the anti (Qliphoth) to the White Hot Room (Kabbalah) so him taking control of WHR is not out of his power by any means

Not only that, when Echo took back the WHR, it was specially stated by Adversary that she had mastered Phoenix power. Even then, she could not defeat Adversary. He wasn't even at full power to fully manifest. Echo had to take him into the cauldron of creation, where she was all-powerful to defeat him. This was a weak incarnation of Adversary used, by the way. Since mastering the phoenix force, Echo has saved the marvel multiverse in the hero's reborn story.

Even then as shown in X-Men Forever when the Phoenix dies the Cold Dark Room takes over its opposite number which is WHR. The Cold Dark Room belongs to Adversary.

 

[Eseseso]

Definitely following, will look at this more later

 

[Everywhereman]

It was specifically stated when Adversary defeated Echo he took control of the White Hot Room.

That isn’t said it just says the WHR isn’t under Echo’s control, for reasons I mentioned earlier.

Even then as shown in X-Men Forever when the Phoenix dies the Cold Dark Room takes over its opposite number which is WHR. The Cold Dark Room belongs to Adversary.

When the Phoenix dies and darkness takes over that is stated to be the Tiger god, not the Adversary or any of the other entities we see in RoM. The Adversary also doesn’t “own” that darkness considering it’s also stated on that page that’s cut off “we’re all ourselves here even if we’re also something else” implying they’re aspects of something bigger (which might be the Tiger but that hasn’t been clarified)

 

[Freedomstar]

That isn’t said it just says the WHR isn’t under Echo’s control, for reasons I mentioned earlier.

When the Phoenix dies and darkness takes over that is stated to be the Tiger god, not the Adversary or any of the other entities we see in RoM. The Adversary also doesn’t “own” that darkness considering it’s also stated on that page that’s cut off “we’re all ourselves here even if we’re also something else” implying they’re aspects of something bigger (which might be the Tiger but that hasn’t been clarified)

"White Hot Room is MY place and I control it" as she takes back control over Adversary turning the place into the cosmos because Adversary plagued it with shadows.

Your assessment is very much wrong but I'll break it down. Al has been gearing up to create the oppositional force of Phoenix since Storm and Magneto moved to Arakko

He stated that there are various "oppositional forces to the Phoenix" we've seen on the panel. While doing that he found that SK was originally meant to be an oppositional force. He knew about others who filled the role like Goblin Force. He then states despite being a foe of PF he didn't feel like Tiger God fit an oppositional force. He then states this is supposed to fit into the larger narrative of X-Men Forever and so on. When Jean/Phoenix is dying the darkness of the cold dark room takes over which another writer confirms Al was gearing up on.

The writer Kieron Gillen confirms that RoF (Al Ewing) gearing to be knock-off effect of X-Men Forever where the Cold Dark Room takes over WHR

The Tiger God is the darkness that surrounds the white hot room but not the cold dark underneath everything which the Cold Dark Room is. Which is why Al Ewing didn't feel like TG belonged with this type of "darkness"

Annihilation is from the Cold Dark Room. Al Ewing has been gearing those this story a while before it came out. She was stated to be from the darkness of the Anti-Tree. At the time the branch wasn't disclosed until RoM. Tiger God exists in kabbalah as the darkness that surrounds the WHR. Adversary is the darkness in Qliphoth that is the opposite of the White Hot Room.

You have him hinting again Annihilation power was the kind Storm has faced before which Adversary connected them before we got to RoM

Al himself stated the higher powers of MU sent Storm into The Mystery to save the cosmos while Phoenix was dying which tied into X-Men Forever. Engima was threatening creation and since Phoenix was "dying" her opposite sought to take over the cosmos too.

Higher powers of MU sent Storm into The Mystery to deal with Phoenix's opposite number so when she revamps she'll take care of Engima instead of having to deal with all these threats to creation. Phoenix's number on the Tree of Life is 6 and the Cold Dark Room is the opposite


So Tiger God was very much irrelevant and Adversary stated himself the Cold Dark Room is his territory.

 

[Freedomstar]

Anyways he should be rated 1-A off this feat alone if Phoenix is rated 1-A for creating the energy matrix which is nexus compressing magic on Infinite Earths


Naze is the human Avatar of Adversary with a force of unheard and unfelt of since the beginning of creation (The Big Bang at the time from Phoenix which created the multiverse) destroyed Forge’s mountain magical source was a Nexus of Power existing on all Earths in the multiverse which is infinite universes. Though Adversary took care of all the magical mountains in all parallel Earths.... The nexus of power still existed but was faint and Adversary tainted all of it with his chaos.

The nexus was described by Naze to be almost beyond comprehension

 

[Eseseso]

How do you suggest changing Adversary's profile? Simply changing the tier to 1-A or making a new 1-A key for his true self and having a separate one for his Avatar?

 

[Freedomstar]

It will all still be High 1-A with his avatars and true self. He was turning through all of the universes in Eternity. He overwhelmed the Timestream and all possibilities of the Marvel multiverse. He destroyed a magical nexus on infinite universes.
His dimension in physical existence for his incarnation is stated to be the last and greatest gate of all dimensions. Magik confirmed when Forged opened up Adversary's dimension he punched a hole through the dimensions. This means Adversary dimension of chaos "Spirit lands" transverse all infinite Earth dimensions, Otherworld, Hells, Dark Dimension, Superflow, etc. Which is why he is confirmed to be Pan-Dimensional. Adversary was challenging Roma to control the omniverse and was winning by destroying everything.

It was stated his dimension was the heart of primal chaos itself

 

[Eseseso]

It will all still be High 1-A with his avatars and true self. He was turning through all of the universes in Eternity. He overwhelmed the Timestream and all possibilities of the Marvel multiverse. He destroyed a magical nexus on infinite universes.
His dimension in physical existence for his incarnation is stated to be the last and greatest gate of all dimensions. Magik confirmed when Forged opened up Adversary's dimension he punched a hole through the dimensions. This means Adversary dimension of chaos "Spirit lands" transverse all infinite Earth dimensions, Otherworld, Hells, Dark Dimension, Superflow, etc. Which is why he is confirmed to be Pan-Dimensional. Adversary was challenging Roma to control the omniverse and was winning by destroying everything.

It was stated his dimension was the heart of primal chaos itself

So what would his new key(s) look like?

Also, I will add that considering we already have this on his profile:

Is one of the "shadow" entities that oppose the Phoenix Force's light.

It's clear that this wiki already accepts him being the equal opposite of the Phoenix Force, never mind all the evidence in the OP.

Though I will also add that everyone besides TOAA is soon going to be downgraded from High 1-A to 1-A.

 

[Freedomstar]

He should be 1-A
1. Cold Dark Room is his territory which is the dark cold underneath all realties in existence
2. He was tearing all all universes in existence
3. Overwhelmed the Timestream which is a higher dimension and all possibilities in existence
4. Overpowered Roma who had access to Matrix Energy which is 1-A
5. Tainted a magical nexus like the Matrix which permeated infinite universes (Forge's mountain of power)
6. Forge finally getting his mountain of power back still didn't have enough power to beat him.
7. Roma using her full power which was the Pan-Dimensional energy of Otherworld could not defeat him. This energy closed up a seal from the chaos wave. While battling the chaos wave it's stated Roma's powers equal her title and much more. Roma titles are synonymous with Celestial/Multiversal/Ominiversal guardian.
8. His incarnation dimension in physical existence is stated to be the greatest and last gate of all existence.
9. He was going to destroy the multiverse not only physically but also spiritually something The Beyonders failed to do when they tried to get rid of Engima.
10. He had the power to make a destructive Trans-temporal wave of chaos again to affect the Time stream again which includes all universes and time strings.

 

[Eseseso]

He should be 1-A
1. Cold Dark Room is his terotory which is the dark cold underneath all realties in existence
2. He was tearing all all universes in existence
3. Overwhelmed the Timestream and all possibilities in existence
4. Overpowered Roma who had access to Matrix Energy which is 1-A
5. Tainted a magical nexus like the Matrix which permeated infinite universes (Forge's mountain of power)
6. Forge finally getting his mountain of power back still didn't have enough power to beat him.
7. Roma using her full power which was the Pan-Dimensional energy of Otherworld could not defeat him. This energy closed up a seal from the chaos wave. While battling the chaos wave it's stated Roma's powers equal her title and much more. Roma titles are synonymous with Celestial/Multiversal/Ominiversal guardian.
8. His incarnation dimension in physical existence is stated to be the greatest and last gate of all existence.
9. He was going to destroy the multiverse not only spiritually but also physically something The Beyonders failed to do when they tried to get rid of Engima.

Cool.

So will his new keys be something like

Avatar | True Form

And will both be 1-A?

 

[Freedomstar]

That's fine with me.

 

[Eseseso]

That's fine with me.

What's the difference between his avatars and True Form, and how do his Avatars work compared to his True Form?

 

[Freedomstar]

Really isn't much of a difference we just know he uses an avatar/incarnation for physical existence. His true self was established to be in Cold Dark Room which is the dark cold underneath of everything.
Power levels are pretty much the same