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Undyne vs The Hand of the King - 7-0-0

hand of the king (who i'll now be reffering to as hotk) has a decent advantage over undyne but dosen't seem to have any answers for danmaku + soul hax

Said danmaku could potentially increase if undyne were to use her minor amounts of DT (She wouldn't enter udu unless under certain circumstances) if near death although considering her implied experience with ut danmaku she'd definitely be capable of dodging hotks attacks and eventually killing him which becomes easier if she immobilizes him by making his soul green then bombards him with attacks

leaning towards undyne here but i'll wait for opposing arguments
 
which becomes easier if she immobilizes him by making his soul green then bombards him with attacks
Undyne's danmaku isn't that crazy at first tho. Maybe he can hold his own while using his summons to aid himself?
although considering her implied experience with ut danmaku she'd definitely be capable of dodging hotks attacks
Ah hell no she’s definitely not dodging HotK’s strikes lol. He can tag Beheaded, that is nearly equivalent to hitting someone with rain dodging skillwank bs or whatever.
 
Undyne's danmaku isn't that crazy at first tho. Maybe he can hold his own while using his summons to aid himself?
Fair but what would he do when she does utilize her danmaku? He summons only like 5 jobbers at once so they'd get shreaded by danmaku too
Ah hell no she’s definitely not dodging HotK’s strikes lol. He can tag Beheaded, that is nearly equivalent to hitting someone with rain dodging skillwank bs or whatever.
If ur refering to the acid can feat that's danmaku confined to a smaller area in a much bigger environment making it far from actual rain dodging since all he has to do is roll around it which is whats assumed anyway everytime you roll to dodge an attack.
 
Fair but what would he do when she does utilize her danmaku? He summons only like 5 jobbers at once so they'd get shreaded by danmaku too
They don't necessarily need to carry the fight for HotK (not like they'd be able to anyway). Just being able to help him block the spears more easily is enough, especially since he knows he'll die in exactly 4 hits here (plus he can just summon more after the current horde gets shredded). And again, Undyne's danmaku is only decent, and having more enemies means she has to divide all of her bullet hells between them, while also trying to dodge or block their attacks.
If ur refering to the acid can feat that's danmaku confined to a smaller area in a much bigger environment making it far from actual rain dodging since all he has to do is roll around it which is whats assumed anyway everytime you roll to dodge an attack.
Yeah that’s why I said "nearly", should I bold it for you? It can be confined to a smaller area, yet still large enough overall to force him to actually dodge through it, rather than just moving to the side and whatnot, which I assume is what you're claiming. And there are similar feats showing he can’t simply 'move around to evade' like you said.

Not that it means much, because their stats are nearly identical so all the hits landing still won’t be as lethal as just getting hit a few times and straight up pretzeled ig
 
They don't necessarily need to carry the fight for HotK (not like they'd be able to anyway). Just being able to help him block the spears more easily is enough, especially since he knows he'll die in exactly 4 hits here (plus he can just summon more after the current horde gets shredded). And again, Undyne's danmaku is only decent, and having more enemies means she has to divide all of her bullet hells between them, while also trying to dodge or block their attacks.
The enemies themselves are significantly less durable and would die even quicker so this isn't a setback long term (especially when he has no way to abuse this)
Yeah that’s why I said "nearly", should I bold it for you? It can be confined to a smaller area, yet still large enough overall to force him to actually dodge through it, rather than just moving to the side and whatnot, which I assume is what you're claiming.
How would it be "nearly" when that's literally all he has to do? What suggests the attack is big enough to where he can't just roll to the side to dodge the entire thing?
And there are similar feats showing he can’t simply 'move around to evade' like you said.
Which are?
 
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The enemies themselves are significantly less durable and would die even quicker so this isn't a setback long term (especially when he has no way to abuse this)
Undyne can turn the fodder into bloodstains pretty quickly yeah, but the Elites are decently tough. They can still be used effectively to buy time. And i dunno, he kinda can abuse it? Like, unless you think he’s literally only able to summon them once per phase because of a game mechanic, there’s no reason he wouldn’t keep summoning after each horde is gone, it’s one of the very few things he can actually do to avoid getting his soul obliterated.
How would it be "nearly" when that's literally all he has to do? What suggests the attack is big enough to where he can't just roll to the side to dodge the entire thing?
Because he literally can’t just walk to the side? It’s an attack that’s going to press him into a corner, and he has no choice but to dodge forward duh. I guess you could make an argument about it being 2D and that in actuality he moves to the side to evade it so there’s that.
Which are?
What’s shown in the profile, plus the times he dodged Death’s AoE moves, and he can also parry ******* explosions.
 
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Undyne can turn the fodder into bloodstains pretty quickly yeah, but the Elites are decently tough. They can still be used effectively to buy time.
How would they tank that much hits when they don't resist soul hax tho? (granted ut soul hax still half relies on dura but their durability and endurance downscale from a guy who we've already established will die in 4 hits)
And i dunno, he kinda can abuse it? Like, unless you think he’s literally only able to summon them once per phase because of a game mechanic, there’s no reason he wouldn’t keep summoning after each horde is gone, it’s one of the very few things he can actually do to avoid getting his soul obliterated.
you would still have to prove his summoning works in a way to where he could spam summon them
Because he literally can’t just walk to the side? It’s an attack that’s going to press him into a corner, and he has no choice but to dodge forward duh.
The attack is approaching him at a decent speed ofc he has to move quickly to the side to dodge it which would making things like rolling and dashing more efficient
I guess you could make an argument about it being 2D and that in actuality he moves to the side to evade it (which I could use that same argument to jab back by saying that in actuality he does dodge through it because not every ‘roll’ is a literal roll, but just a general dodge animation because this is an indie game that had to use a 3D pipeline for 2D animation just to avoid going bankrupt and here I am wasting time trying to wank the skills of an obscure verse after 40 mins of confused anger only to realize I miswrote </ref> as <ref/> in 17 different references and that I should’ve just used all that time to draw Ralsei’s feet) so there’s that.
Then i can just refute it by pointing out how it being a general dodge animation does nothing beyond suggesting he usually dodges attacks in that manner making it a bit fallacious because you'd have to prove he's legitimately dodging this for this to be applicable

I can also point out the fact that the counterargument only implies it wouldn't be impossible for this to be a skill dodging feat which dosen't answer anything since i'm asking the question "What suggests he'd have to be dodging through the attack here instead of rolling around the attack" not making the direct claim "It's impssible for him to be dodging through the attack"

You'd still have to highlight things that force us to interpret this as him dodging through the attack
What’s shown in the profile, plus the times he dodged Death’s AoE moves,
you mean this? The attack has a second of delay and gaps more than big enough for him to dodge it through rolling.

and he can also parry ******* explosions.
Parrying explosions isn't a skill feat without added context
 
How would they tank that much hits when they don't resist soul hax tho? (granted ut soul hax still half relies on dura but their durability and endurance downscale from a guy who we've already established will die in 4 hits)
I mean I thought that by saying ‘die even quicker’ you were implying they’d all go down in fewer than that four hits. But you (finally) pointed that out now so whatever.
you would still have to prove his summoning works in a way to where he could spam summon them
You can force him to summon again ingame if you cheese his health bar too fast, but yeah ingame slop. Still, judging by how effortlessly he does the summons, I’ve got nothing else to say except that you’re kinda falling into that burden of proof territory.

Other than that, I’ve got nothing else to say really (my feet joke got ruined🥀). Wait for an actual Dead Cells debater to argue for this ig (there are none)
 
You can force him to summon again ingame if you cheese his health bar too fast, but yeah ingame slop. Still, judging by how effortlessly he does the summons,
if we're using this then undyne would still kill him eventually

I’ve got nothing else to say except that you’re kinda falling into that burden of proof territory.
What i'm basically asking is what suggests this skill feat is rain dodging? What can he do to abuse his summons acting as meat sheilds for him? Bop doesn't really effect my stance since i'm putting your arguments into question and you haven't answered anything yet
Other than that, I’ve got nothing else to say really (my feet joke got ruined🥀). Wait for an actual Dead Cells debater to argue for this ig (there are none)
Indie games that arent mega iconic usually don't recieve alot of traction so one can only hope ig
 
So...summons don't help, Undyne has basically the same value as Handy here, and while Handy beats her shit in if it goes to straight melee... Undyne has danmaku.

She also spams that Danmaku and has no qualms about using it, ESPEICALLY since the fight is in her home and yeah she will be peppering this giant with both spears from her position and from the ground. And even when it does come to melee she keeps a bit of distance in order to more successfully overwhelm people with Danmaku from a fair distance.

Handy only really has a skill and LS advantage, and the latter isn't even used by him. Undyne FRA
 
So...summons don't help, Undyne has basically the same value as Handy here, and while Handy beats her shit in if it goes to straight melee... Undyne has danmaku.

She also spams that Danmaku and has no qualms about using it, ESPEICALLY since the fight is in her home and yeah she will be peppering this giant with both spears from her position and from the ground. And even when it does come to melee she keeps a bit of distance in order to more successfully overwhelm people with Danmaku from a fair distance.

Handy only really has a skill and LS advantage, and the latter isn't even used by him. Undyne FRA
Don't forget that Undyne has that "You can't move now but you get a shield in only one direction" move too.
 
tbf she doesn't lead with that but it'd def help
The pacifst fight, the first thing she does is turn our soul green
I̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶U̶n̶d̶y̶n̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶U̶n̶d̶y̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶f̶i̶g̶h̶t̶,̶ ̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶s̶o̶u̶l̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶t̶u̶r̶n̶s̶ ̶g̶r̶e̶e̶n̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶w̶e̶ ̶a̶i̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶u̶s̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶k̶e̶y̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶e̶.̶ ̶P̶o̶i̶n̶t̶ ̶i̶s̶,̶ ̶s̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶t̶a̶r̶t̶s̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶f̶i̶g̶h̶t̶s̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶t̶u̶r̶n̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶o̶p̶p̶s̶ ̶s̶o̶u̶l̶ ̶g̶r̶e̶e̶n̶
 
The pacifst fight, the first thing she does is turn our soul green
I̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶U̶n̶d̶y̶n̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶U̶n̶d̶y̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶f̶i̶g̶h̶t̶,̶ ̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶s̶o̶u̶l̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶t̶u̶r̶n̶s̶ ̶g̶r̶e̶e̶n̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶w̶e̶ ̶a̶i̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶u̶s̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶k̶e̶y̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶e̶.̶ ̶P̶o̶i̶n̶t̶ ̶i̶s̶,̶ ̶s̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶t̶a̶r̶t̶s̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶f̶i̶g̶h̶t̶s̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶t̶u̶r̶n̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶o̶p̶p̶s̶ ̶s̶o̶u̶l̶ ̶g̶r̶e̶e̶n̶
Thats after you've been running away from her while she shoots a bunch of spears at you
 
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