Thanos Possible Upgrade

[Celestial_Judge]

Currently Thanos has a destructive capability of Thanos's destructive capacity and durability is currently. Solar System at baseform. I think he should be upgraded to atleast Galaxy level for the following reasons.

Currently in Marvel Thanos (2016) Thanos has killed every poweful being and almost every living thing in the universe. They don't mention almighty beings such as the living tribunal, Franklin Richards, the celestials, or any other powerful beings of such magnitude so we can pretty much exclude them.

However, Galactus who is currently Multi-Solar System was one shotted by Thanos. In fact he even ran from him in previous fights with Galactus fearing for his life. The only reason he fought that time was because the ghost rider (frank castle's version) was on his side. He gave The Rider the powers of the herald of Galactus so he would've atleast been star to Solar System level at that point as well.

Ghost rider could not even hurt thanos and became an aid to Thanos (Because he can't die).

Not only that but he fought his son (Thane) while he had the powers of the Phoenix force. Currently I believe the Phoenix force is universe level. I don't believe thane was Universe level since didn't have the time to master it but he was atleast Galaxy level. But Thanos was able to hold his own until the sisters of death commanded the Phoenix away (I forget their name).

I would love to get a response on the topic.

Also since I can only post on picture for some reason I'll put the one of Thanos one shotting Galactus. The issue where Thanos and his son is fighting is Thanos (2016) #11

 

[Antvasima]

Please read the following page: Power-scaling Rules for Marvel and DC Comics

Marvel is insanely inconsistent, and Galactus being killed by a single blast from Thanos is one good example of that, especially as the latter now has far more trouble fighting against the Silver Surfer wielding Thor's hammer within the same storyline.

Basically, the writer does not seem to have any idea what he is doing.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

@Antvasima True, but remember the Thanos That was afraid of Silver Surfer was really old at the time.

Our Thanos showed no Fear at all.

Also he still fought against his son with the Phoenix force. I feel like that should automatically be somewhat of an upgrade.

 

[Antvasima]

Thanos was only shown destroying planets during his fight with Thane empowered by the Phoenix Force. It was not displayed at anywhere near full power either.

And older Thanos was stated to be stronger than younger Thanos.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

@Antvasima can you give me the chapter number of when that was stated or a scan.

Also I forgot to mention he defeated Odin.

 

[Antvasima]

I do not have the time, but remember that they smashed through a planet during the fight.

He did not defeat Odin, he defeated Thor, and again, the writers evidently have no idea what they are doing within the current Thanos comicbook.

The Champion of the universe was completely out of character, was severely depowered, and couldn't survive in space unaided, just for one example, and, if I remember correctly, Thanos received a female birth name for another.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

I will admit some things were just terrible writing. Apparently black bolt can now kill celestials which I did not catch on to until my second time reading it. Easily one of the most disrespectful feats I've ever seen in comic books.

However this is years after and can be considered a time skip. Unfortunately the panel doesn't state whether it was King Thor or Odin. But, it was still be a feat because King Thor if I'm not mistaken is Galaxy or Multi-Galaxy

Thanos Vs King Thor or Odi

Also I seen nothing about Older Thanos being more powerful than younger thanos. Only that he has lived longer.

 

[Antvasima]

It was mentioned that his power kept growing over the years, but even so, the entire Thanos series has just been proof of terrible writing, and Marvel in general is severely disrespecting Jim Starlin's vision for his character.

 

[Antvasima]

The hammer is a clear indication of that the character was Thor in any case.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

Which would still be a bump because it resembles King Thor who is way more powerful than base form Thor.

 

[Antvasima]

Again, all of the characters that he defeats seem to be severely depowered within this story. It would almist be like rating Cyclops as High 1-B for damaging Dormammu, who has defeated Multi-Eternity.

Marvel's "writers" generally have no idea what they are doing in terms of power levels.

 

[ByAsura]

I'm pretty sure This Thanos is a different continuity entirely, where he gets an amp from completing some trials.

 

[Antvasima]

Current Thanos was brought to that future, and I think was able to cause damage to old Thanos, so the powerscaling still does not make any sense.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

@Celestial Judge " But Thanos was able to hold his own until the sisters of death commanded the Phoenix away (I forget their name). " Their names are the Sisters of Eternity.

@Fhfrhghghg It is likely a different continuity.

@Ant Or waiting Cyclops as High 1-B w/ the full Phoenix Force. Albeit, that isn't nearly as bad as the example @Ant gave, considering Phoenix has High 1-B statements and portrayals, but still bad nonetheless .

That is true . Maybe " At least 4-B, possibly Far Higher " for God Quarry and Old King Thanos ? The Far Higher is because of the Sisters of Eternity, who apparently fear God Quarry Thanos, and he was confident he could kill them if he desired. They killed/easily defeated Death. Current Thanos taking those two on is a outlier.

 

[ByAsura]

Ok. Apparently he got stronger as he aged as well as having the Power of the God Quarry - Which is a well of power from cosmic entities.

Found a great RT about this where they explain it.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

@Fhfhghghg ^ I mentioned that. And yeah, this Thanos is FAR stronger than he was before, still can't believe he jumped this much though .

 

[Celestial_Judge]

@Antvasima for your example it wouldn't be the first time vsbattleswiki has gave someone a bump for hurting someone else.

They did it for Gotenks be able to hurt Buu

They also did it for Seiya being able to hurt Hades.

Although I don't think cyclops would get that much of a bump, and would most likely be ignored depending on how much he injured Dormamu. That's a bit of a stretch of an example considering Thanos is pretty powerful already.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

@Celestial Judge

He's saying hurting any of the Cosmic Abstracts is considered an outlier. Not that we don't use scaling via injuring someone...

@Ant

When were they " severely depowered " ?

 

[Celestial_Judge]

@The 2nd of Existential Seed Thanks I easily forget characters names if I don't grow attached.

Also it would appear that in Marvel we are atleast 30+ years ahead because all the X-Men look like senior citizens now.

It could be assumed that Thanos was able to train for those years and be able to get stronger.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

@The 2nd Extistential Seed

His example doesn't make since because he's comparing Thanos to Cyclops and King Thor to Dormamu

Thor is already an Eternal while King Thor is a powerful god

Cyclops is just a mutant while dormamu is a godlike being.

 

[ByAsura]

That's not his point, he's just saying power levels vary upon writer. The examples were to show how much they can vary.

It's like saying current Thanos is universe level+ due to fighting a living time line, but then saying hand cuffs are universe level+ due to restraining him.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

@Fhfhghghg Well I don't understand his example. I just think this Thanos deserves somewhat of a buff for the feats he shows in this comic.

Not the ones you know are bs, but ones that are reasonable.

Like him defeating King Thor, Galactus, and his Son Thane with the Phoenix force.

Thane only had the Phoenix force for a limited amount of time so I don't think he would be Universe as the wiki says but atleast Galaxy.

Our Thanos was able to combat with it for some time.

 

[ByAsura]

Ok. He scales to people who are consistently stomped by people of similar (though not comparable) power, that's why the power scaling rules for comics exist.

That's again not normal Thanos, it's the God Quarry one. It shouldn't be an upgrade, it should be a new key.

God Quarry Thanos has shown extreme power, easily killing Galactus, and the God Quarry itself is the essence of vastly powerful cosmic entities. I think Universe+ to Multiverse level is ok. He could also beat the sisters, who killed Main Body Death.

Old King Thanos, not our Thanos. Old King is a Thanos with vastly powerful artifacts, and who has grown stronger with age.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

@Fhfhghghg Pretty much I agree . This isn't the average thanos. Both God Quarry and Old King has a lot of amps and has gotten stronger in his base. Saying regular Thanos is comparable takes the whole premise of those comics away .

 

[Celestial_Judge]

But none of that is said in the Comics so how would we know that? Literally issues 1-16 mentions nothing about him receiving outside powers. Can you show me a scan in which it says that?

 

[ByAsura]

Firstly, he was able to not only stomp, but kill all of the heroes effortlessly. He usually can stomp them, but he can't kill them like they're paper.

His power grows with time.

He has tons of artifacts, and likely external power sources.

 

[Antvasima]

This thread is getting out of control, and I do not have the time to deal with it. It should be closed.

As far as I understood Thanos was simply restored to his original power by the God Quarry.

The story in question has the Hulk survive attacks from Thanos that killed Galactus, Celestials, and old Thor, and also shows Thanos having problems with the Silver Surfer. It does not make any sense.

Again, Marvel has too many writers with too many vastly different interpretations of character power levels for us to be able to scale from every single incident, or we literally end up with all Marvel characters scaled from Oblivion or the Living Tribunal.

We have to attempt to find some form of consistency, rather than go with the outliers, but even that is near impossible, as Marvel Comics has basically turned into a mixture of irrational gibberish, both in terms of storytelling logic and political propaganda.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

@Ant Easier said than done, Antvasima , when there are more Outliers than consistency for every character Marvel-Wise.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

@fhfhghghg Oh ok that would line up with me saying the timeskip. And true Old King Thanos had a piece of the time stone, and Surturs sword.

 

[ByAsura]

@Ant

Agreed. Except for point 2, it did amp him, but point 4 & 5 makes this moot.

@Celestial

Since you understand, should this be closed?

 

[Celestial_Judge]

How is the thread getting out of control? No one is being disrespectful and I love the dialogue and point of views of everyone.

I'm sorry but isn't agreeing and disagreeing supposed to happen when a character is getting revised?

 

[Antvasima]

Look, we are not going to scale Thanos from Galactus, the Celestials, or even full power Odinforce Thor. That would be ridiculous and completely inconsistent with his general portrayal.

We probably need a discussion rule about this topic, considering how recurrently it has been brought up recently.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

@Fhfhghghg Not entirely, so are we saying this is a completely different Thanos, or are we just throwing the Thanos 2016 issue out of the question.

 

[ByAsura]

The former.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, as Jim Starlin himself has noted, Marvel's current version of Thanos has nothing to do with the character that he created personality-wise. He has been reduced to an almost one-dimensional nihilistic thug, rather than the complicated devious mastermind that he used to be.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

@Antvasima but Thanos has fought with Galactus before and injured him in base form before so saying he got stronger over time and being able to defeat him isn't a stretch.

Thanos vs galactus

 

[ByAsura]

@Ant

By that description, he seems like a reverse Galactus. G went from being a grunt, to a fully fleshed out character.

So do you think this whole 2016 Issue of this should be disregarded?

@Celestial Judge

He's also done think like fight Odin and the Celestials back then.

He doesn't seem to have gotten stronger when we scale him to beings like Thor and Hulk, hell, he actually seems to be weaker if you do that.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

Not saying that, some of the feats should be thrown out the window however.

Such as Black Bolt killing celestials.

 

[Antvasima]

Knocking over Galactus is not remotely the same as defeating him in one blow.

In addition, Galactus was shown as outclassed by the universal predator The Hunger within that story, so Starlin portrayed him at nowhere near full power, and Thanos also stated that Galactus was far more powerful than himself before attacking him.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

Galactus wasn't just knocked over, they fought for a good minute in the comic, that's just one picture.

And my point wasn't that he was stronger in that comic, my point is that he was able to combat with him for a time and injure him so it isn't a stretch saying that Thanos over time got powerful enough to defeat Thanos.

Even in this wiki Thanos is Solar System and Galactus is Multi solar System, they are not that far apart.

And @fg How when he killed all current hero's, except for hulk who is Old King Thanos's dog.