1-A | outerverse level question

[NHTkenshin2]

So i do remember the description of 1-A being the complete transcendence of spatial temporal dimensionality.

Now it's just being a “aleph 2nd” dimensional character i think?
But why tho? What tier would transcending all concepts and meanings including spatial temporal dimensionality give you?

 

[FinePoint]

My understanding is that the standard didn't actually change but was just changed to be worded more clearly.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

My understanding is that the standard didn't actually change but was just changed to be worded more clearly.

So 1-A is both an aleph 2 dimensional character and an above dimensionality character? Ngl that kinda doesn't make sense

 

[Arthex]

idk if this can help, but a guy explained that 1a characters who have a physical form cannot be above dimensionality, because by having a physical form they are still bound to it.

dk what aleph 2 is and neither i would want to learn about it since it kinda seems like a Mathematical concept and i m not really a fan of maths.

 

[FinePoint]

idk if this can help, but a guy explained that 1a characters who have a physical form cannot be above dimensionality, because by having a physical form they are still bound to it.

dk what aleph 2 is and neither i would want to learn about it since it kinda seems like a Mathematical concept and i m not really a fan of maths.

It's basically the mathematical equivalent of "Uncountably infinite above uncountably infinite."
Infinity = Countably infinite
Aleph-1 = Uncountably infinite
Aleph-2 = Uncountably infinite> uncountably infinite
Aleph-3 = Uncountably infinite> uncountably infinite> uncountably infinite
etc.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

idk if this can help, but a guy explained that 1a characters who have a physical form cannot be above dimensionality, because by having a physical form they are still bound to it.

I dont really understand this.
There isn't alot of 1-A characters with physical forms tho? Half of them have NEP2.

dk what aleph 2 is and neither i would want to learn about it since it kinda seems like a Mathematical concept and i m not really a fan of maths.

Watch vsauces “how to count past infinity" it kinda explains what alephs are and stuff.

But yeah, thank you for your help.

 

[Arthex]

dosent makes sense to me either, i mean i m happy the tier 1 tiering system uses atleast some mathematical logic instead of just pure kid fantasy stuff, but how can a author show something thats basically beyond dimensions.

by that logic, some immeasurable characters shouldn't have their speed because "we" can still see them.

 

[FinePoint]

dosent makes sense to me either, i mean i m happy the tier 1 tiering system uses atleast some mathematical logic instead of just pure kid fantasy stuff, but how can a author show something thats basically beyond dimensions.

by that logic, some immeasurable characters shouldn't have their speed because "we" can still see them.

It's not really much different.
Before it was "There's infinite dimensions and my character completely transcends them."
Now it's the same thing just expressed as aleph-1.

 

[Swerzye29038]

So i do remember the description of 1-A being the complete transcendence of spatial temporal dimensionality.

Now it's just being a “aleph 2nd” dimensional character i think?
But why tho? What tier would transcending all concepts and meanings including spatial temporal dimensionality give you?

I'm not exactly sure why it was changed, but It could have something to do with the fact that "transcending spatial temporal dimensionality" is not only completely incoherent, but the terminology itself, even if it did make sense, is extremely vague. "Transcending Dimensions" could only be 5D if the transcendence in question is only over a 4-Dimensional reality. It could also be 1-B, High 1-B, Low 2-C, or just not tier-able at all to certain verses where such terminology refers to "non-physical" beings.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

I'm not exactly sure why it was changed, but It could have something to do with the fact that "transcending spatial temporal dimensionality" is not only completely incoherent, but the terminology itself, even if it did make sense, is extremely vague. "Transcending Dimensions" could only be 5D if the transcendence in question is only over a 4-Dimensional reality. It could also be 1-B, High 1-B, Low 2-C, or just not tier-able at all to certain verses where such terminology refers to "non-physical" beings.

Yeah that makes sense

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

There is no tier truly beyond dimensionality on this wiki, as even Tier 0 is bound by space, just very big ones.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

What if a character exist in a area where space and time doesn't exist. Completely outside of that. I mean if verse doesn't specify infinite hierarchy of Dimensionality but still higher area is above concepts of space and time itself? Does that make the verse low outerversal?

 

[NIK_FARIS]

What if a character exist in a area where space and time doesn't exist. Completely outside of that. I mean if verse doesn't specify infinite hierarchy of Dimensionality but still higher area is above concepts of space and time itself? Does that make the verse low outerversal?

No, we don’t make that kind of assumptions unless it clearly stated. If we do that those who destroy timeless void can be giving tier 1-A when its not. Assuming the dimension work properly in uncountable infinite superiority, and that are is stated to beyond any of the extension, they technically qualify for 1-A perhaps higher if there are more context.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

No, we don’t make that kind of assumptions unless it clearly stated. If we do that those who destroy timeless void can be giving tier 1-A when its not. Assuming the dimension work properly in uncountable infinite superiority, and that are is stated to beyond any of the extension, they technically qualify for 1-A perhaps higher if there are more context.

Ok

 

[Swerzye29038]

What if a character exist in a area where space and time doesn't exist.

Existing outside of space time (which is existence) is a logical contradiction and doesn't make any sense. The terms "area" and "existence" would automatically imply dimensionality. There aren't any fictional characters who would accurately fit such a description, or at least I haven't came across any who would.

Completely outside of that

"Outside" quite literally means to be external to something else, which is the relationship between spatial things.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Existing outside of space time (which is existence) is a logical contradiction and doesn't make any sense. The terms "area" and "existence" would automatically imply dimensionality. There aren't any fictional characters who would accurately fit such a description, or at least I haven't came across any who would.

"Outside" quite literally means to be external to something else, which is the relationship between spatial things.

Just asking. Many outside the wiki uses space time Transcendency to scale Rimuru to outerversal. I was wandering if that's applicable

 

[Iiliminal]

Just asking. Many outside the wiki uses space time Transcendency to scale Rimuru to outerversal. I was wandering if that's applicable

many also use that argument to get him to low complex. But IIRC the context of the quote makes it so it can't be used to get him there

 

[ThatBoiRick]

I'm not exactly sure why it was changed, but It could have something to do with the fact that "transcending spatial temporal dimensionality" is not only completely incoherent, but the terminology itself, even if it did make sense, is extremely vague. "Transcending Dimensions" could only be 5D if the transcendence in question is only over a 4-Dimensional reality. It could also be 1-B, High 1-B, Low 2-C, or just not tier-able at all to certain verses where such terminology refers to "non-physical" beings.

To be fair, "transcending dimensions" =/= "transcending the concept of dimensions"

When someone states they "transcend dimensions" we most certainly have to assume they are +1D over the verse they "exist" in, hell, we as 3D being are already transcendent over dimensions.

However a concept is an abstract idea, notion, and fundamental principle. So when we have a characters that has power "beyond the concept of dimensionality" it merely means they have power that exceeds all definitions and meanings of space.

Granted, I dont think being "beyond space" means you have 0 space, nor do I think being "beyond the concept of space" means you have 0 space. Just that your "space" is bigger than all definitions of "space", including numbers higher than infinity like the aleph null

 

[ThatBoiRick]

idk if this can help, but a guy explained that 1a characters who have a physical form cannot be above dimensionality, because by having a physical form they are still bound to it.

dk what aleph 2 is and neither i would want to learn about it since it kinda seems like a Mathematical concept and i m not really a fan of maths.

A 1-A character can be 3D, your tier isnt based on what dimensions you have, it's about your power, if you have a 3D character that can destroy an outerversal plane what is he? Is he suddenly not outerverse level because he himself has 3 dimensionas? No, that wouldn't make much sense.

An example of this is MegaTen, where 3D characters have the mind and "cognition" to do outerversal feats while having only 3D bodies.

The aleph null is simply "after infinity", dont pay too much mind to it.

 

[ThatBoiRick]

There is no tier truly beyond dimensionality on this wiki, as even Tier 0 is bound by space, just very big ones.

Yup, being "beyond the concept of dimensionality" still means you have dimensionality

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Coming back to this, so because of this thread, i said that the transcendence of all dimensions would be the transcendence of dimensions proven to exist inside the verse (i.e a verse has 4D, a character > dimensionality = 5D)
Which definitely made sense to me.

With the transcendence of the concept of dimensions being either some form of acasualty or the same as the 4D to 5D explanation.

Until i discovered SMTs cosmology which straight up has 1-A ratings from being above the concept of dimensionality off of this

But as for me, I continued to expand further and farther than her, expanding beyond the boundaries of this dimension. For a quantum-based being, just the normal 3 dimensions were far too small, and nothing more than the lowest, most basic tier dimensions. Or possibly, what I had done was expand beyond even the concept of “dimension” and into an unknown space.

Or thats what i understood from the thread at least.
In which, still, why?
Why assume being above the concept of dimensionality is aleph-2D?



I am very confusion

 

[KakarotGoku]

Coming back to this, so because of this thread, i said that the transcendence of all dimensions would be the transcendence of dimensions proven to exist inside the verse (i.e a verse has 4D, a character > dimensionality = 5D)
Which definitely made sense to me.

With the transcendence of the concept of dimensions being either some form of acasualty or the same as the 4D to 5D explanation.

Until i discovered SMTs cosmology which straight up has 1-A ratings from being above the concept of dimensionality off of this



Or thats what i understood from the thread at least.
In which, still, why?
Why assume being above the concept of dimensionality is aleph-2D?



I am very confusion

Prolly because they consider it transcending any degree of geometric dimensions including the highest number real coordinate space can get.

(Unsure though.)