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  1. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings general revision thread (continued)

    To add to the troll stuff, Pippins Westernesse blade (Númenórean) one shotted an Olog-Hai, so Blades from Númenor and Elven swords can at least cut thru stone. Glamdring shattered the Balrogs sword when Gandalf parried it in the books as well, another feat for Elven swords.
  2. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings general revision thread (continued)

    What makes the Nazgûl dangerous is a combination of things, not just raw power.
  3. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings general revision thread (continued)

    I think with LOTR scaling we have to keep in mind weapons are very powerful in this universe. Aragorn is wielding a sword that can kill a Maia. As for Aragorn himself, he has hints of Maia heritage himself, it's probably why the Nazgûl can't affect Aragorn with their fear aura and why he held...
  4. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings general revision thread (continued)

    As I've mentioned I more or less agree with the scaling, some stuff is obviously messy since the Legendarium isn't straightforward like modern verses, good example are the Nazgûl. Tolkien himself says the Nazgûl don't have great physical power but their true power lies in fear, which makes...
  5. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings Discussion Thread

    There's actually a quote in Unfinished Tales that says Gandalf the Grey is actually the Mightiest of the Istari and Galadriel wanted him to be the leader of the White Council but Gandalf sensed Sarumans jealousy and made him the Head of the council instead. But, there are quotes that contradict...
  6. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings general revision thread (continued)

    Ainur can't ever die until Eä aka the Universe ends no matter what, at most they become powerless spirits like what happened to Sauron.
  7. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings Discussion Thread

    We've mostly talked about a lot of these points, I agree with most but have certain different POVs ofc. When it comes to Galadriel being lesser than Gandalf the Gray cause of the ring statement, I always assumed that was because Gandalf most likely would end up "shedding" his mortal form, I...
  8. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings general revision thread (continued)

    Yeah, the strongest Elves consistently can exhange blows in forms of magic and powerful weaponry against the Maia. I think Elrond and Cirdan are above Glorfindel since they were given one of the 3 Rings because, just like Galadriel, they were the greatest Elves on Middle-Earth during the 3rd...
  9. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings general revision thread (continued)

    To be clear this is the thread all revisions will be agreed upon?
  10. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings Discussion Thread

    It's possible the flat earth is massive, the Outer seas that encircle the landmasses are huge, but not much evidence to go by from that. The Sun and Moon are also on ships made by the Elvesz so I think that may debunk any potential size increases.
  11. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings Discussion Thread

    I kinda like the idea of using the Greater Maia tier such as Eönwë making them only Universal, but still not too clean. Weakened Morgoth is still implied to be the same tier as the strongest Maia and even when he fought Fingolfin was still the strongest Vala. I actually prefer the published...
  12. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings Discussion Thread

    That's why I'm iffy on Ainur on Arda still being universal, First age heroes can give em a good scrap.
  13. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings Discussion Thread

    Personally I thought Tolkien saying that about there being "multiple stories being tribute to Eru" was just a poetic way of saying we can all interpret God differently but I can see why one would interpret it the multiverse way. Whatever happened to the Ossë calc?
  14. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings revisions

    I agree with the Ainur being low 1-C, shakong the Timeless Halls is a solid feat + all the other reasons back it up more. I think that should be taken away or rearranged, maybe say "The Ainur are perceived by Eru as legitimate beings, with Eru transcending Eä to the point it is just a story...
  15. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings revisions

    Yah I kinda worded myself off, I came off as saying Melkor actually physically countered an action from Eru, rather I was more trying to say Eru does acknowledge him + the Ainur since it did make him mad, further backing him seeing them as legitimate beings. I think the Wiki needs to change...
  16. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings revisions

    I was thinking something about Melkor during the Ainulindalë that I don't see anyone really discuss is how Melkor countered Erus first 2 themes and made Eru so mad he stopped the Music all together. To clarify for those who don't know the Ainulindalë aka the Music first started normally till...
  17. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings revisions

    Sadly we dunno how he did it, I imagine him using water ro raise it from the bottom of the ocean. Iirc the text says it was raised from great depths as well. I also wanna add it was probably done very fast since the Edain were being transported there.
  18. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings revisions

    Yeah, I'm not sure what type of immortality this would be, but while the Ainur are the "blood" of Eä, they don't need it. If someone somehow blew up Eä the Ainur would still exist since spirits are indestructible. I'm guessing they'll just be extremely diminished like how Sauron and Saruman...
  19. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings revisions

    As Tyrano mentioned this is from a scholarly work, not from Tolkien himself. I also thought this was from Tolkien but was mistaken, I referenced but did not cite this a page or 2 back so understandable if one thinks is is from a Tolkien source. In general, I'm unsure about Ainur being higher...
  20. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings revisions

    Decided to read pretty much everything in this thread so far + looking up the Ainur/Eru connection and I think the most solid thing that can ascertain 5D Ainur (in fact I'm pretty convinced of it now) is the "offspring of his thought" statement. The Ainur aren't just self individuals like the...
  21. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings revisions

    As I've mentioned the "perceive reality as a drama" is a misunderstanding on everyone's part. Tolkien does say that in a letter but he is referencing the events during the Ainulindalë, when the Ainur sang together they made a "Great Vision" of the Universe that played out essentially as a drama...
  22. TheMerchant66

    Is this Smaug calc usable?

    Gandalf considers Smaug a being of Immense power and nothing really supports the idea that Smaug is any lesser than his ancestors from the War of Wrath, I also think the "mountain level" feats done by him and the Balrog vs. Gandalf figjt indicates some sort of parity.
  23. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings revisions

    There really isn't any more context to that statement, it's on page 7 for those who wanna look. Just that the Valar were delegated by Ilúvatar to shape the world calling him the All-powerful Transcendent creator. Brian Sibley was chosen to be the new editor after Christopher's death if nothing...
  24. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings revisions

    Got Fall of Númenor today and Eru is called "The All-Powerful Transcendent creator" not sure if that was posted here, the key word there is "Transcendent" Admittedly this was written by Brian Shipley not by Tolkien himself nor his son so unsure how we will take this evidence, ofc I see that...
  25. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings revisions

    So to recap real quick Eru is considered 5D (Just gonna stick with these labels lol) since he is the "Omnipotent" in the lore and Infinitely trasncends everything else and holds Eä literally in his thoughts and is the Author + he is the only one who can change the Music (basically reality...
  26. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings revisions

    Besides being in higher dimensions I'm not sure how one can qualify 1-C. Eru does see everything as a story and he does hold all of Eä in his mind and trasncends it infinitely above it and the Ainur. But again idk if that would make him 1-C or just scaled him super high into the low low 2-C...
  27. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings revisions

    Just want to say that is is a misinterpretation. What they saw and perceived as a fictional story was the Vision their music initially created. Eru then brought the vision into existence making it as real as the Ainur. If it means anything when they descended into the Universe they are...
  28. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings revisions

    I think we all misinterpreted that statement fron Tolkien about the Ainur seeing Eä as a drama. He was referring to when the Ainur made the "Great Vision" Tolkien says in one of the letters that after that he turned Eä as real as the Ainur, something odd like that but the message is clear. I...
  29. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings revisions

    This is the quote: "From all his policies and webs of fear and treachery, from all his stratagems and wars his mind shook free; and throughout his realm a tremor ran, his slaves quailed, and his armies halted, and his captains suddenly steerless, bereft of will, wavered and despaired. For they...
  30. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings revisions

    Galadriel going by how Tolkien constantly was rewriting her was meant to be a power house and is seemingly Fëanors equal and in Unfinished Tales her Light dispersed Saurons darkness in the Cirion and Eorl story. She is also said to be the greatest of the Eldae in mE which is why she took one of...
  31. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings revisions

    Imma get on to this a bit more and this might be wank but felt like asking: What do you guys think of Tolkien more or less considering Eru Ilúvatar as also being the God of our Reality? What even is the stance on what our reality is considered dimensional wise, I've heard we can possibly be a...
  32. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings revisions

    Ancalagon most likely reacted vs. Vingilot which traveled to "starless voids" or at the very least is fast enough to travel fron Arda to where Venus is at (Eärendils Silmaril is essentially Venus for the Flat earth cosmology) would that be enough to suggest MFTL Ancalagon?
  33. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings revisions

    Nothing suggests Smaug comes from a stock of dragons that are "diminished" and Gandalf considered a possible alliance of Smaug and Sauron to be something that has to be avoided at all costs, idk I just feel Smaug us genuinely a threat that if Gandalf could have handled even in a hard fight he...
  34. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings revisions

    Well if we are gonna try and go for highest canon then I'd reckon Tolkiens letters will be tbe highest followed by any other personal writings such as Round Earth cosmology. Granted, I don't believe any of that necessarily contradicts with power scaling. Dragons are always portrayed as...
  35. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings revisions

    Been off for a bit but during that time I've read a lot of Tolkiens works. Not sure what the current discussion is atm so if I could be put up to speed that would be good. For Dragons I wanna add that Fall of Gondolin states Dragon fire can melt stone and Iron and I believe also Children of...
  36. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings revisions

    Huan is so strong he beat Carcaroth who was amped by a Silmaril that let him go thru the Girdle of Melian which not even Ungoliant could.
  37. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings revisions

    Not much to add but I read the Fingolfin vs. Morgoth fight and it says Morgoths might was still the greatest of all things in the world, not sure how to frame this tbh. There is a quote posted earlier that implies the Valar either grew weaker or purposely just held back a lot of power by the...
  38. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings revisions

    I mentioned this a while back but Tolkien intended for the flat earth stuff to be an in-universe creation myth by the men of Númenor, later on Tolkien intended to make his lore "scientifically" accurate I mean that in the loosest terms, such as the Earth being round from the start. I don't...
  39. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings revisions

    The biggest problem with the Lore is how important the Kingdon of Arda seems to be despite being only a planet/star system, there is the quote that says the Valars power isn't restricted to grandiose levels of power but that they also have great control and subtly. The works on Arda are also...
  40. TheMerchant66

    Lord of the Rings revisions

    The greatest Maiar are nigh equal to the non-Aratar Valar, each Vala have a great degree of controlling all the matter in the Universe. But, it is a bit odd I'm unsure myself how to really make sense of some things.
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