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  1. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Cthulhu Mythos: Time to Debunk one of the Greatest Myths in Versus Debating

    Just wanted to post a quick update. Like Fan, my life has also been turned upside down by current events (obvious pandemic and otherwise), and I'm honestly just spending a lot of time grappling with ennui. I'm fluctuating through states of having too much to do and not enough to do, neither...
  2. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Cthulhu Mythos: Time to Debunk one of the Greatest Myths in Versus Debating

    Oh God oh **** I have to read more of this? I'll try to check back on this, in the next few days.
  3. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Cthulhu Mythos: Time to Debunk one of the Greatest Myths in Versus Debating

    This is also a solid reminder that I need to give that blog some minor updates, when I have time.
  4. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Cthulhu Mythos: Time to Debunk one of the Greatest Myths in Versus Debating

    I do still agree with the point of this thread involving fixing certain bits of misinformation, though. I should check through the Mythos pages and see what needs to be updated. A few minor things off the top of my head: Anything referring to Nyar as "lesser", since everything we see of him...
  5. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Cthulhu Mythos: Time to Debunk one of the Greatest Myths in Versus Debating

    Just gonna dump some quotes to show that I'm not talking out of my ass. Everything is from Through the Gates of the Silver Key, obviously. First, some mention of how Carter's beyond the Gate fragment and the entity he's speaking to are separate things. While the being his fragment is speaking...
  6. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Cthulhu Mythos: Time to Debunk one of the Greatest Myths in Versus Debating

    No, that is blatantly untrue. The text calls Carter's Archetype many things. YOG-SOTHOTH. ENTITY. BEING. PRESENCE. Every single one is in all caps to denote that it is the same thing being referred to under many names. Immediately after telling us that the BEING is Carter's Archetype, we are...
  7. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Cthulhu Mythos: Time to Debunk one of the Greatest Myths in Versus Debating

    They are the same thing, but the Necronomicon description of Yog-Sothoth is incomplete due to its nature. YOG-SOTHOTH (all caps) is just one of the many titles TtGotSK uses to refer to something without a name. The Mythos does this, a lot. The entity known as Azathoth is not actually called...
  8. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Cthulhu Mythos: Time to Debunk one of the Greatest Myths in Versus Debating

    @Agnaa You are mixing up Carter and Carter's Archetype. The Carter who still thinks of himself as Carter beyond the Gate is referred to as stuff such as "Carter's beyond the Gate fragment". He is still, in some way, Carter. Carter's Archetype is YOG-SOTHOTH/BEING/SUPREME ARCHETYPE. It is why...
  9. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Cthulhu Mythos: Time to Debunk one of the Greatest Myths in Versus Debating

    @Agnaa I think you are misreading that paragraph without the context of the greater story.
  10. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Cthulhu Mythos: Time to Debunk one of the Greatest Myths in Versus Debating

    Kep, Carter's Archetype is the Supreme Archetype. That is why its name is in all caps. The BEING and SUPREME ARCHETYPE are the same thing. It literally says Carter himself has his glutless zeal because he is derived from the SUPREME ARCHETYPE. The BEING is not Carter's beyond the Gate fragment...
  11. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Cthulhu Mythos: Time to Debunk one of the Greatest Myths in Versus Debating

    @Agnaa "Gilman decided he had picked up that last conception from what he had read in the Necronomicon about the mindless entity Azathoth, which rules all time and space from a curiously environed black throne at the centre of Chaos." Then you have the "ancient legends" of The Haunter of the...
  12. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Cthulhu Mythos: Time to Debunk one of the Greatest Myths in Versus Debating

    This next comment was originally going to be part of the original, but I feel it's better off as its own distinct thing. While my previous comment focused on what we could know and what was heavily implied, I'd like to also throw together a quick comment on why one could use intent and themes...
  13. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Cthulhu Mythos: Time to Debunk one of the Greatest Myths in Versus Debating

    @Ant Removing the objectively false information isn't too difficult. However, if the revisions include the Azathoth vs Yog-Sothoth stuff, then I guess I'll finally weigh in on that, now that I have a little bit of time. I'll try to keep this relatively short. I apologize if it is rather...
  14. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Cthulhu Mythos: Time to Debunk one of the Greatest Myths in Versus Debating

    Lurker is by Derleth, based on fragmentary pieces of writing Lovecraft left behind, and was published 8 years after HPL died. Because it is more heavily steeped in Derleth's version of the mythos, which is contradictory to pretty much everyone else's (including Lovecraft's source material), we...
  15. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Cthulhu Mythos: Time to Debunk one of the Greatest Myths in Versus Debating

    Been horrendously busy, and realized I never posted my thoughts on anything beyond the Yog-Sothoth = Supreme Archetype thing. I will try to post my thoughts on the interaction between these higher entities and what should happen in regards to tiers, when I can.
  16. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Tier 0 Mathiverse

    If I had cash and time to spare right now, I'd buy the ebook, because boy would having all the pages help me with some of this. On another note, it's past 3:30 in the morning in my timezone, so I'm probably going to bounce.
  17. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Tier 0 Mathiverse

    @Ant I'm not sure if I actually have too many issues with the system itself, but more so improper application for certain things in a few cases, which can happen to even the most thoroughly examined systems, as the fault isn't internal. Even if I did, the site will always do things its own way...
  18. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Tier 0 Mathiverse

    @Agnaa I would agree that "copy" perhaps isn't the best word. More accurately, it is a mathematical view of our own universe. Elaborating on what I meant, the Space Hopper states that Planiturthians can't experience the Mathiverse directly "because they are real, whereas I am a Virtual...
  19. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Tier 0 Mathiverse

    I don't think it's actually that simple, though. The characters are fictional versions of us, yes, but they still seem like they're supposed to be humans, just as viewed from an outsiders perspective. Assuming they actually created and can fundamentally change the Mathiverse, and that this is...
  20. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Tier 0 Mathiverse

    I never thought "describe the tier of people thinking about mathematics, but assume mathematics manifests as a demonstrably existent reality in some manner" would be such a pain in the ass.
  21. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Tier 0 Mathiverse

    Agreed. I think it is more the idea of a group of 3-D beings, who are supposed to be us, getting placed in Tier 0 due to the fact they can supposedly exert total influence over a reality that contains basically everything ever, even though such a thing seems contradictory to the very ideas...
  22. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Tier 0 Mathiverse

    @Ultima I would expect this to be exactly the type of thread in which such concerns arise due to it relating specifically to the tiering of the subject of the thread, as well as another character from the same verse. As long as it doesn't consume the entire topic or devolve into "entire tiering...
  23. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Tier 0 Mathiverse

    I can agree with Sera that, at least with some stuff I've seen recently, the application of the new system seems to be falling a bit flat, on certain levels. I remember the days when everyone got frustrated because the application of "big number" to compare certain 1-As running on entirely...
  24. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Cthulhu Mythos: Time to Debunk one of the Greatest Myths in Versus Debating

    Despite not having a lot of time, I figured I'd comment on this again because I think the whole discussion is interesting due to the varied interpretations that can be taken from the mythos. First of all, I'd like to talk about the quotes that people are saying suggest Yog is a different being...
  25. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Cthulhu Mythos: Time to Debunk one of the Greatest Myths in Versus Debating

    Yes, I always got the impression that it wasn't so much the case where Carter is cut from "bigger Carter or some shit" with Yog. The way it's written makes it sound more like people on Earth just call the SA Yog-Sothoth, but what they believe Yog-Sothoth to be is smaller than what the SA...
  26. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Cthulhu Mythos: Time to Debunk one of the Greatest Myths in Versus Debating

    Isn't the exact quote about Yog in HitM " only a congeries of iridescent globes, yet stupendous in its malign suggestiveness"? This sounds remarkably similar to what occurred when the Ancient Ones (who are the ENTITY's manifestation) spoke to Carter, and the similar sensation that happened upon...
  27. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Cthulhu Mythos: Time to Debunk one of the Greatest Myths in Versus Debating

    What would the "Yog-Sothoth" key be based off of, though? The Yog-Sothoth who is mentioned in The Dunwich Horror? We're almost always referring to the Supreme Archetype when we talk about Yog-Sothoth, anyway. We just give it a name for simplicity's sake, just as the author did.
  28. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Cthulhu Mythos: Time to Debunk one of the Greatest Myths in Versus Debating

    This is incorrect. The Haunter of the Dark gives him the title of "Lord of All Things", and he is also referred to as "Lord of All" in Fungi from Yuggoth. As I said above, I don't believe viewing these as 100% concrete is the only "correct" interpretation, but he is directly referred to as...
  29. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Cthulhu Mythos: Time to Debunk one of the Greatest Myths in Versus Debating

    I am ridiculously tired (so excuse any errors), and only really commenting on the Yog stuff because I agree that too many false ideas about Azathoth come from outside material, so this reply will be brief, but I do believe this is a completely plausible interpretation. Partially because names in...
  30. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Homestuck god tiers downgrade

    Just that, at the very least, he occupies the same level of existence and functions on the same general scale, yes. Which is really all that matters for his tier, when talking about Low Complex Multiverse level stuff.
  31. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Homestuck god tiers downgrade

    Gaining something from overwhelming your other half is a cherub thing, yes. That is part of the idea behind their predominating. But this does not mean that she got this power boost just because it was her brother. Calliope specifically states that this change is a result of supreme unification...
  32. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Homestuck god tiers downgrade

    As much as I just kind of want to meme this because of how glorious it is without any context, I guess I should point out that due to the way the story's currently unfolding, we don't even know if "Obama" was real, or just some bullshit Ultimate Dirk was throwing in to get Dave to achieve his...
  33. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Homestuck and Problem Sleuth aren't in the same verse.

    Problem Sleuth was also never downgraded to High 3-A, because I completely forgot.
  34. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Homestuck god tiers downgrade

    Also, you guys planning to make keys/new pages for epilogue/Homestuck^2 stuff, or what? Even the actual MSPA wiki has done this, due to the whole weird, vague nature of all the "post-canon" jargon. Seems like it would be ideal, but I'm honestly not too invested in the specifics, at this point.
  35. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Homestuck god tiers downgrade

    Overall topic seemed interesting, so I figured I'd pop in, for a moment. I think it would be more accurate to say this her power is not on an entirely different playing field, but it's clear that Calliope is stronger. At least, it's clear at this point in time. Basically everything has been...
  36. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Inclusion of my Cthulhu Mythos Blogs to the page?

    I imagine those that clearly present themselves certainly could be. Lovecraft was a strangely paradoxical man, so I don't think any possible disdain for them actually prohibits their inclusion.
  37. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Inclusion of my Cthulhu Mythos Blogs to the page?

    The effort is definitely appreciated.
  38. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Inclusion of my Cthulhu Mythos Blogs to the page?

    @Ant Then I guess I'd argue Yog probably qualifies for that, too? It's described as having "limitless being and self" even when talking about the other Archetypes, and it's supposed to be allied to the totality of existence, including the ultimate abyss. Nothing else gets similar descriptions...
  39. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    Inclusion of my Cthulhu Mythos Blogs to the page?

    @Ant Yeah, I figured out most of the new stuff, as I'd been part of and heard discussions on it, before it happened. I just don't know if our policy dropped back to "one Tier 0 per setting" or if there can still be multiples.
  40. Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

    I am going on vacation soon

    This guy right here deserves a temporary vacation about a million times more than I deserve a permanent one. Relax and take care of yourself, man. If there's one thing I've been reminded of in the past few days, it's that there are a lot of good people here who will keep this place running.
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