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  1. Ricsi-viragosi

    Top 5 Strongest Characters for Every Tier 36

    Even generally it's wrong. Plot manipulation is literally reality ly warping, with the add-on that reality is a fictional story. The add-on doesn't matter. Firstly, a writer making a story doesn't mean the plot manipulation is at the same level fő reality as the writer - you and I can write...
  2. Ricsi-viragosi

    Top 5 Strongest Characters for Every Tier 36

    That's simply wrong, and you can't assume that. The fact that you have to use "most of" should tell you that just assuming it's true is false, but regardless of general truth, it's also outright wrong for Meng Hao. A type 1 concept, which Essence is, is by definition both "inner" and "outer"...
  3. Ricsi-viragosi

    Top 5 Strongest Characters for Every Tier 36

    It's not just the effect that's the same, the method is too. Plot is not different from subjective reality and fate manipulation, the only possible reason it could be superior would be if its from a higher reality (so, a writer v fictional characters). But, Meng Hao wins the higher reality game...
  4. Ricsi-viragosi

    Top 5 Strongest Characters for Every Tier 36

    I mean, just because it's plot doesn't mean it will work. Meng Hao resists just about every application plot manipulation can have. Why would it not fall under one of his resistances? If it determines what'll happen, then fate manip resistance should cover. If it's changing reality, then...
  5. Ricsi-viragosi

    Top 5 Strongest Characters for Every Tier 36

    Eh, tege argument would have no legs to stand in regardless. They are in a shared universe. Whatever title you give the universe, it still takes only a single spot. ...That's it.
  6. Ricsi-viragosi

    10-C tournament, round 1, match up 2. Grey matter vs Togame 0-8-0

    Pushing dust off the enemy when punching is really low level, so the two might be on even ground physically, in which case small size could actually help here. That, and her inability to walk normally means that she probably just... falls asleep mid battle and loses by incapacitation.
  7. Ricsi-viragosi

    Type 3 Concept Manip is not superior to normal abilities.

    I'm fine with types being made to be general descriptions that allow for more liberty on mechanics, and them just not being superior by default.
  8. Ricsi-viragosi

    Type 3 Concept Manip is not superior to normal abilities.

    It doesn't have to be type 2 to not fit type 3. As said above and in the very response, the current type 3 should be changed if that's what it is meant to present. Because shock of the shocks, Plato and Aristotle are not the be all end all of concepts and basing a system in just them was dumb...
  9. Ricsi-viragosi

    Type 3 Concept Manip is not superior to normal abilities.

    Well, yes, that is the point of saying type 3 isn't superior. That, or change the definition of type 3, since Aristotle's own wasn't really what it seems to be meant. It seems more to be trying to take an "ideal" concept without it being superior to objects. Which might exist, but isn't...
  10. Ricsi-viragosi

    10-C tournament

    Yeah, without items or equipment around, his intelligence isn't that useful.
  11. Ricsi-viragosi

    10-C tournament

    If both are fine, then I'd go for Leech, it's better in every way. And, I guess Magikarp would work fine, though if anyone has a better idea...
  12. Ricsi-viragosi

    10-C tournament

    I mean, how can anyone lose to it? Since outside help isn't allowed and it can only talk, it just loses due to incapacitation eventually, no?
  13. Ricsi-viragosi

    10-C tournament

    Worm Janus? His EE is only after defeating an enemy, regen takes hours and is only Low, and his adaptation and evolution are limited enough that they shouldn't matter in a fight with a single enemy. As a leech, he does have some really strong toxin (a drop could kill an elephant) that he can...
  14. Ricsi-viragosi

    Cooling and Cloud Calculations

    Are you for real? I understand that this wiki isn't a job, but a hobby. I understand the times right now are harder than usual. I understand the wiki will never be precise in its ratings due to the tiering system being flawed at its core. But "plotting to destabilize the wiki" for pointing out...
  15. Ricsi-viragosi

    Type 3 Concept Manip is not superior to normal abilities.

    My bad, misread that. Uh... KingPin is suggesting full on revising CM to not be greek specific, and potentially not have types, instead using only what is said in-story. If that were done, than abstract existence would work depending on feats.
  16. Ricsi-viragosi

    Type 3 Concept Manip is not superior to normal abilities.

    Even normal Aristotelian concept erasure would warrant type 1, so this wiki's jacked up version would as well.
  17. Ricsi-viragosi

    Type 3 Concept Manip is not superior to normal abilities.

    Even by the wiki's definition what I said mostly applies. It's still an attribute intrinsic to something that makes the ability work, and since the concept is specifically not above everything, it still wouldn't be superior.
  18. Ricsi-viragosi

    Type 3 Concept Manip is not superior to normal abilities.

    Can you look at the image I uploaded? The overarching concept is the thing. The concept of death exists inside of dead things. If nothing is dead, the concept of death doesn't exist. Same for life, if all life disappeared then the concept of life would stop being. Reality is the combination...
  19. Ricsi-viragosi

    Type 3 Concept Manip is not superior to normal abilities.

    An object is matter and form combined. Nothing exists without one or the other. The "concept" is the form portion. A corpse and a living person are made of the same matter, but their "form" is different. ...As far as Aristotle goes, anyways.
  20. Ricsi-viragosi

    Type 3 Concept Manip is not superior to normal abilities.

    That's simply not true for type 3 concepts. It's not how they work. "3. Aristotelian Concept: Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality. These concepts shape everything, and changing them would either require the alteration of every object of the concept or, if manipulated directly...
  21. Ricsi-viragosi

    Type 3 Concept Manip is not superior to normal abilities.

    Googling the definition of a word is not going to win an argument. I mean, see what "bloodlusted" means, and then look at our wiki's definition. Type 1/2 is unrelated to perception. It is an ideal form of something, unrelated to our perception. Objects take part in the concept, but not the...
  22. Ricsi-viragosi

    Type 3 Concept Manip is not superior to normal abilities.

    That's... no. That definition isn't the one type 1, 2 or 3 conceptual manipulation use. That is type 4 conceptual manipulation or Idealism. As I said in the OP, "concept" in type 3 is something's "shape", the attributes it has. Besides any character who uses type 3, you mean? They either...
  23. Ricsi-viragosi

    Type 3 Concept Manip is not superior to normal abilities.

    ...Many verses don't follow Aristotle's ontology. That just means it's not Aristotelian Concept manipulation but something else.
  24. Ricsi-viragosi

    Type 3 Concept Manip is not superior to normal abilities.

    There isn't "a" concept of death. It's an attribute something can have. A corpse is dead. If there is no corpse, then nothing is dead.
  25. Ricsi-viragosi

    Type 3 Concept Manip is not superior to normal abilities.

    I'm not sure how type 3 could have an abstract being. Concepts with Aristotle cannot exist without matter. Having someone with abstract existence would be like having a square without matter. It doesn't work. For NEP1, erasing someone conceptually with type 3 means that they neither have a...
  26. Ricsi-viragosi

    Type 3 Concept Manip is not superior to normal abilities.

    ...No? Why would it be? There isn't a greater concept that is destroyed, only Plato has that stuff.
  27. Ricsi-viragosi

    Type 3 Concept Manip is not superior to normal abilities.

    And here we are, a discussion about how "conceptual" doesn't mean superiority in power for... a power. Type 4 is already subjective reality for groups, so let's get at type 3. Aristotelian concepts are something's form. According to the concept (hehe) made by the man, reality is divided into...
  28. Ricsi-viragosi

    Type 2 Nonexistent Physiology for Monika

    As I said, I'll make a thread about it. Long story short though, type 3 conceptual manipulation is not that, no. Type 3 has reality divided into matter and shape. Matter is self-evident, shape is the attributes of the matter. Be it physical shape, or other things like being alive, being...
  29. Ricsi-viragosi

    Type 2 Nonexistent Physiology for Monika

    That's not a reason why, that's just saying something is done so we should keep doing it. You know what, I will make a thread for type 3 conceptual manipulation. It's literally just altering something's attributes without interacting with its matter, which is... common. Way too common to make...
  30. Ricsi-viragosi

    Type 2 Nonexistent Physiology for Monika

    But data Alters the attribute of objects without physically altering them. When she turns up the depression dial she doesn't sit down and talk Sayori into being depressed (she does also do that, but she also messes with the files). When she makes Yuri list for you and your blood, she doesn't...
  31. Ricsi-viragosi

    Type 2 Nonexistent Physiology for Monika

    My point is that type 3 conceptual erasure would not be in any way superior here. Erasing something conceptually with type 3 doesn't affect it in the past, and much like how destroying all spheres can destroy the concept of sphere, creating a sphere would also recreate it. Type 3 conceptual...
  32. Ricsi-viragosi

    Type 2 Nonexistent Physiology for Monika

    Data and files in DDLCs context would go fine for a type 3 concept - it fits the definition. The files are separate from the objects themselves but shape everything in-game, and destroying what shapes them (ie. suicide) corrupts the files. The data makes up all of reality. Erasing something's...
  33. Ricsi-viragosi

    Ergenverse CRT: Peak 3rd Step Downgrade.

    Yeah.
  34. Ricsi-viragosi

    Ergenverse CRT: Peak 3rd Step Downgrade.

    I know, but I mean for the justifications in the Ap section.
  35. Ricsi-viragosi

    Ergenverse CRT: Peak 3rd Step Downgrade.

    I feel context is really needed to properly understand it, so I'll see for that. (The implications of space of river and time containing essence and 4th steppers is also very... eh). Obviously, some Screenshots for quotes should be taken for the river stuff though.
  36. Ricsi-viragosi

    Ergenverse CRT: Peak 3rd Step Downgrade.

    Hm, I guess so. I'll see when I get there, though I'm still uncertain that the river of time is meant to work differently instead of it being just a light retcon/expansion on what came before, Ergen does it a lot.
  37. Ricsi-viragosi

    Ergenverse CRT: Peak 3rd Step Downgrade.

    I guess? Not sure the other one would really look to be Low 1-C, and HE wasn't from the Eternal lands but was still confident in the river's mechanics.
  38. Ricsi-viragosi

    Ergenverse CRT: Peak 3rd Step Downgrade.

    The river of time could contain infinite alternate "fates" created by the Eternal Flower, with those being most likely full on universes since Bai could grab them and bring them into reality. So most likely Low 1-C for it. Not sure if quasi-4th steps are equal to it though, since the 4th...
  39. Ricsi-viragosi

    Top Five Strongest Non-Smurfs for every tier 8: New Forum, same rules

    It's unclear to what level it can go up to, it just endlessly grows. Universal characters do exist in the verse though, which is why I'm unsure.
  40. Ricsi-viragosi

    Top Five Strongest Non-Smurfs for every tier 8: New Forum, same rules

    Potentially? It's an endlessly expanding void that devours space and time. Either way, it can also erode from one dimension to another (and Han's powers may be granted by the being that created the universe)-
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