About the 4 devas, are you by any chance going to continue to argue that they are low 1-C? Because if so i'd like to help with that, since i found a lot of flaws with the others arguments that could be exploited. And you actually came up with some really valid points on top of a feat that i never really paid much attention to, and while i was reading the thread i just thought up of more supporting arguments. So yeah, if possible I'd like to help out.