VS Battles Wiki Forum

For the record, don't take this as me having any ill will or anger towards you. I don't imagine any of the such and I am not accusing you of anything, though I stand by my original point that your post was naïve.

You have no evidence for your assumption Giselle believes herself to be a woman though. Everything cuts against that. KT was arguing that it's incredibly irrational to call a random person u don't know transphobic because he disagrees with ur headcanon on a series he wrote. Do u not have any shame?

You're not exactly defeating my point about you lacking maturity and tact by immediately strawmanning my argument and then saying "Do u not have any shame?"

I'm not going to be responding to you further. This is a message for KingTempest, because I have respect for him as a person and I owe it to him to explain my perspective.

The point isn't that authors can't be transphobic against their own characters, that was never a claim of mine.
The point is that saying "they're transphobic" because "they don't consider them trans" is the problem.

'Giselle, the character who gets pissed off when someone calls her a man or implies she's a crossdresser and who is generally treated as a girl by the other girl Sternritter (you know, her friends, or at least 'friends'), isn't actually trans, she's just a sicko' is kinda blatantly transphobic rhetoric, I think.

Kubo saying she's a man is more evidence of Kubo maybe being a bit transphobic (to say the least) than Giselle actually being a cis guy, especially given how she reacts (anger and violence) to being misgendered. Kubo isn't presenting her as a sicko weirdo to show that she's not actually trans, he's presenting her as a sicko weirdo because, well... the vibe is because that's how he sees trans people.

Click to expand...

People have been doing this lately.
They call authors transphobic because they don't consider them trans.
They can be innocent authors, but if they say "I didn't intend for them to be interpreted as a transgender character" or "this character is male" or "this character is female", then there's the issue.

Authors can be transphobic. Specifically putting transgenders in a bad light because they're transgender is a problem.

Another character that was mentioned on the first thread was Yamato from One Piece. Yamato was considered a female by Oda (author), and he (Oda) labels transgender characters in his series transgender (Kiku, Morley, etc.). He either labels them as "male with the heart of a woman" or "an okama (identity ranging from crossdresser to transgender).
People called him transgender for just labeling what Yamato is considered to be in his POV.

It's the same as what Prom did. Calling Kubo transphobic for saying "this is a guy". What precedent does that set?

For the record, don't take this as me having any ill will or anger towards you. I don't imagine any of the such and I am not accusing you of anything, though I stand by my original point that your post was naïve.

Click to expand...

No hard feelings whatsoever

Also Arcker stfu

If that was what you meant to say, then that's fine enough, though I will point out that your post did not make a distinction between the two points.

Furthermore, the Yamato situation is very different—and this is, once again, coming from a person who disagrees with Fandom and argued against it. Yamato isn't someone who insists they are a man, Yamato is someone who insists they are a different person entirely. Yamato doesn't care about what gender Odin is, Yamato only cares about identifying as Odin. That is nowhere close to the Giselle situation, and that critical difference is what makes one accusation believable, while the other isn't. Let's put it side by side, for comparison.

Yamato sincerely believes that they are an entirely different person, someone they respect and love. That person happens to be a man, but being a man obviously has nothing to do with this. For all other intents and purposes, they are shown as and treated as a woman (as far as I know), and are essentially only nominally a man for the purpose of imitating Odin as much as humanly possible. This is so far detached from being trans that accusations of transphobia don't really land.

Meanwhile, Giselle claims they are a woman, acts like a woman, dresses like a woman, attacks people who say they are not a woman, is called a woman by their allies... and also is a creep, a rapist, and regarded to "smell like *****" and similar. These kinds of insinuations are far closer to actual bigotry that exists, and it is not unreasonable at the slightest to be made uncomfortable by this portrayal.

Comparing the two is ridiculous, and even a cursory glance should tell you that, Tempest. What Prom did wasn't that at all, and you also know this. Pointing out that a character distinctly and clearly characterized with behavior that signals them as a trans woman, only to then make them a creepy rapist bastard as well as calling them a man outside of the story, definitely feels a little transphobic. You don't have to see it that way, but you can't act as if that interpretation unreasonable.

I hope this makes sense to you. I don't think you mean ill will, but I'm sure you can understand how this is not like the Yamato situation at all.